800$ vs 8000$

**Sailor** · 12-09-2008, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Arpe

bollocks to bullocks. (Can't see what a beast like a bullock has to do with anything

)

Well . . . . clearly related to BS and there's some of that going around.

Jer

**NaClH2O** · 12-09-2008, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Sailor

Well . . . . clearly related to BS and there's some of that going around.

Jer

Hey Jer! Probably the most intelligent comment in this thread, and definitely the funniest!

And to Gooshin: About 30 years ago I saw an excellent exhibition of two professional photographers using only Kodak Instamatics, the cheap ones with the flash cube and the plastic fixed lens. They got some interesting evocative photographs using the limitations of the camera, doing some amazing things with grain, dof, image disortion etc. None of the prints were less than 10X20 inches, most were much larger. Good stuff

NaCl(if you know what you are doing and are willing to work within the limitations of the tool, a lot is possible)H2O

forensicscientist · 12-09-2008, 10:10 PM

.....NaCl(if you know what you are doing and are willing to work within the limitations of the tool, a lot is possible)H2O[/QUOTE]

my point exactly. If quality of equipment (and cost) were the only factors involved in good photographs, how then did the great shots of the 1940's, or WWII ever get recorded? While "better" equipment often makes it easier to get the good shots, I firmly believe that the truly great photographers can capture great shots with almost any type of camera....they just know the limitations of the equipment, and use those limitations to their advantage.

Gooshin · 12-10-2008, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by NaClH2O

Hey Jer! Probably the most intelligent comment in this thread, and definitely the funniest!

And to Gooshin: About 30 years ago I saw an excellent exhibition of two professional photographers using only Kodak Instamatics, the cheap ones with the flash cube and the plastic fixed lens. They got some interesting evocative photographs using the limitations of the camera, doing some amazing things with grain, dof, image disortion etc. None of the prints were less than 10X20 inches, most were much larger. Good stuff

NaCl(if you know what you are doing and are willing to work within the limitations of the tool, a lot is possible)H2O

some guy awhile ago took a picture of a bunch of tomatos soup cans, that made him rich

there are enough people in the world that would call anything art, you were proabably at such an exhibition, where the sheer fact that "someone was bothering to do something with a shitty camera automatically means that their work is going to be awesome"

its called Hype

Originally posted by forensicscientist

my point exactly. If quality of equipment (and cost) were the only factors involved in good photographs, how then did the great shots of the 1940's, or WWII ever get recorded? While "better" equipment often makes it easier to get the good shots, I firmly believe that the truly great photographers can capture great shots with almost any type of camera....they just know the limitations of the equipment, and use those limitations to their advantage.

i have in my drawer pictures of my great grandfather and some even predating him that i just got on my trip to russia. While they are quite sharp on 6X7 prints, you can definetly start to see flaws in skin tones, edge softness (lots of that) and blown highlights, while fun to look at they simply dont match the capabilities of modern equipment.

if WW2 era intrests you so much, why are you here, using the internet, with a digital camera? Hypocrite.

tppentax · 12-10-2008, 04:14 AM

WOW! What a polite community with a newcomer! What a sense of humor! No, this is not Pentax-Forum, this is the Twilight Zone.
So, some explanations for my first (and last, of course) post. Dear “friends”, just read the first sentence: “JUST FOR FUN”. So, why do you react with such anger and meanness (not only against me, but against each-other, that’s totally crazy).
Relax!
Yes, the D3X is a better camera than the K20, yes, the tool doesn’t make the photographer (but makes the photographer gets more clients and more money than his competitor), yes, apples are totally different fruits from oranges (but they don’t cost 10 times more…).
I know very well that the comparison is not fair. I’m a professional 15-20 years now, using only Canons for my day job, and everything else (from Mamiya 7 and X-Pan to Pentax and Panny FX-35, I love Tri-X and my Konica Hexar combo) for all the other time (I’m bored to death using Canons at my free-time like everybody else hates his work tools).
I have to admit that Pentax K20 with pancakes (best quality at ISO 100 from all the ΑPS-C cameras, detail equal to full frame Canons IF you know what to do) is my first choice, when I go out (light and digital) for my personal pleasure.
With my post I wanted to express this happy feeling for Pentax (I was using 645 very often in my film days, my fist “real” camera was a K1000). And maybe –JUST FOR FUN- start to talk about the fact that the Bayer type sensors (and the biggest illusion in photographic history, the “full frame” sensor) are reaching with full speed to a dead-end road.
So, since there is no fun in this forum I have to say goodbye. And to apologize to all of you for the trouble I caused to Pentax community. I’ll try to post it to Nikon Forum. Maybe I’m luckier. At least I hope to see less “bullocks” over there.

PS. These are two of my photos, as a sample from my day time job, for Nissan and Mercedes. One of them is with Canon, the other with Pentax K10 (as you know, the better camera is the one that you have with you, especially with THIS sunset…). As you said (in greek): “archidia”.

Gooshin · 12-10-2008, 04:22 AM

maybe if you would have posted an introduction of yourself rather than an off handed "test", you would not get such a hostile response

there are enough people on this board who are not pro-anything, they are neither pentax fanboys nor other brand fan boys, they simply appreciate the technological side of things.

and posts like yours rub them the wrong way.

Peter Zack · 12-10-2008, 06:07 AM

tppentax, As you haven't been around here that long I think what you are missing is a general avoidance to criticize other brands. Pentax is a smaller line with few bodies and lenses and some limitations at this time. So I find that most here try to avoid showing Pentax as the superior camera against the "big 2" brands simply to avoid a flame war coming back our way. All of today's brands are very good quality with strengths and weaknesses. No need to even appear to trash one against another.

Then you add Gooshin to the mix with his coarse style and a thread starts going in the crapper. We've all learned to ignore him as much as possible.

Have a look around, it's better than you think.

Excellent work by the way. I for one would hope to see more from Greece (my family's homeland) and your other work.

Gooshin · 12-10-2008, 07:11 AM

i only steer titanic threads towards the crapper

arbutusq · 12-10-2008, 08:51 AM

Don't let this thread deter you from hanging around here. I really like the two car photos in your above post and would love to hear how you get such rich colors.

stevebrot · 12-10-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Gooshin

maybe if you would have posted an introduction of yourself rather than an off handed "test", you would not get such a hostile response

there are enough people on this board who are not pro-anything, they are neither pentax fanboys nor other brand fan boys, they simply appreciate the technological side of things.

and posts like yours rub them the wrong way.

Yikes! Gooshin!

I just came upon this thread today and my eyes got bigger the further I read! This forum used to be a friendly place...especially for newcomers.

Now, I understand the objections and technical fine points, but really

Is the dark time getting the best of all of us in the northern hemisphere?

Steve

BTW...tppentax, welcome to the group. It is not always this way!

Gooshin · 12-10-2008, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Yikes! Gooshin!

I just came upon this thread today and my eyes got bigger the further I read! This forum used to be a friendly place...especially for newcomers.

Now, I understand the objections and technical fine points, but really

Is the dark time getting the best of all of us in the northern hemisphere?

Steve

BTW...tppentax, welcome to the group. It is not always this way!

i know it sounds evil, but i just hate those 1-time-posters that come out of nowhere and are like "ba blam X brand is a joke look how good Y brand is in comparison", like seriously.

and remember last year, with the K20D/K200D rumor threads, Adam having to upgrade the server because it was getting choked!!! where are all those people now, those that caused so much controversy's and some seriously aggressive threads.

much like Peter said, i very much appreciate this forums brand neutrality, and still, on a daily basis some sort of brand degrading or promoting post creeps up, and more often than not by people who are new to the forum.

**Sailor** · 12-10-2008, 12:03 PM

I sincerely hope no one took offense from my little play on the word bullock - it was simply a joke aimed at nobody in particular - certainly not the OP.

Since its inception, this forum has been remarkably friendly compared with other enthusiast forums I've participated in. There is the occasional sour thread, but most are pretty enjoyable.

Jer

tppentax · 12-11-2008, 03:59 AM

Dear Peter Zack

Although I can’t see your point not making any noise about Pentax brand (too much… Pentanxiety) I’m very happy to meet a polite voice over here. And I’m very pleased to hear that your homeland is Greece.
Anyway, this is my last post. The only reason to return is to offer you two pictures from our country (a small church near Athens, and Sounio). The shots were taken with K20D two days ago (it’s so windy these days and we have –at last- some decent light, not the harsh greek light of the summer). Hope you enjoy it.

Thanks and “gia hara”.

Peter Zack · 12-11-2008, 04:12 AM

Well it's your call to not return of course. I think even with your skills this is a good place to pick up some excellent information. I know I've learned a lot here.

Regarding your 2 new pictures poli kala! Beautiful shots and if you even want to share more sometime, I'm sure everyone would enjoy some great shots from Greece. Especially us in the northern areas that are soon faced with snow!

Efkaristo and share some more!

ll_coffee_lP · 12-11-2008, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by Gooshin

...and remember last year, with the K20D/K200D rumor threads, Adam having to upgrade the server because it was getting choked!!! where are all those people now, those that caused so much controversy's and some seriously aggressive threads.

Not unlike how this one was headed.

Peter...Thank you for succinctly capturing the essence of the forum (i.e. putting a lid on it).

Welcome to our new member!

c[_]

12-10-2008, 10:42 AM	#26
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by stevebrot Yikes! Gooshin! I just came upon this thread today and my eyes got bigger the further I read! This forum used to be a friendly place...especially for newcomers. Now, I understand the objections and technical fine points, but really Is the dark time getting the best of all of us in the northern hemisphere? Steve BTW...tppentax, welcome to the group. It is not always this way! i know it sounds evil, but i just hate those 1-time-posters that come out of nowhere and are like "ba blam X brand is a joke look how good Y brand is in comparison", like seriously. and remember last year, with the K20D/K200D rumor threads, Adam having to upgrade the server because it was getting choked!!! where are all those people now, those that caused so much controversy's and some seriously aggressive threads. much like Peter said, i very much appreciate this forums brand neutrality, and still, on a daily basis some sort of brand degrading or promoting post creeps up, and more often than not by people who are new to the forum. Last edited by Gooshin; 12-10-2008 at 10:48 AM.

12-11-2008, 04:12 AM	#29
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Well it's your call to not return of course. I think even with your skills this is a good place to pick up some excellent information. I know I've learned a lot here. Regarding your 2 new pictures poli kala! Beautiful shots and if you even want to share more sometime, I'm sure everyone would enjoy some great shots from Greece. Especially us in the northern areas that are soon faced with snow! Efkaristo and share some more! Last edited by Peter Zack; 12-11-2008 at 05:08 AM.

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12-09-2008, 04:28 PM	#16
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,205	Originally posted by Arpe bollocks to bullocks. (Can't see what a beast like a bullock has to do with anything ) Well . . . . clearly related to BS and there's some of that going around. Jer

12-09-2008, 04:47 PM	#17
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	Originally posted by Sailor Well . . . . clearly related to BS and there's some of that going around. Jer Hey Jer! Probably the most intelligent comment in this thread, and definitely the funniest! And to Gooshin: About 30 years ago I saw an excellent exhibition of two professional photographers using only Kodak Instamatics, the cheap ones with the flash cube and the plastic fixed lens. They got some interesting evocative photographs using the limitations of the camera, doing some amazing things with grain, dof, image disortion etc. None of the prints were less than 10X20 inches, most were much larger. Good stuff NaCl(if you know what you are doing and are willing to work within the limitations of the tool, a lot is possible)H2O

12-09-2008, 10:10 PM	#18
forensicscientist Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: DFW Texas and Michigan - I commute :) Posts: 1,012	.....NaCl(if you know what you are doing and are willing to work within the limitations of the tool, a lot is possible)H2O[/QUOTE] my point exactly. If quality of equipment (and cost) were the only factors involved in good photographs, how then did the great shots of the 1940's, or WWII ever get recorded? While "better" equipment often makes it easier to get the good shots, I firmly believe that the truly great photographers can capture great shots with almost any type of camera....they just know the limitations of the equipment, and use those limitations to their advantage.

12-10-2008, 12:52 AM	#19
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by NaClH2O Hey Jer! Probably the most intelligent comment in this thread, and definitely the funniest! And to Gooshin: About 30 years ago I saw an excellent exhibition of two professional photographers using only Kodak Instamatics, the cheap ones with the flash cube and the plastic fixed lens. They got some interesting evocative photographs using the limitations of the camera, doing some amazing things with grain, dof, image disortion etc. None of the prints were less than 10X20 inches, most were much larger. Good stuff NaCl(if you know what you are doing and are willing to work within the limitations of the tool, a lot is possible)H2O some guy awhile ago took a picture of a bunch of tomatos soup cans, that made him rich there are enough people in the world that would call anything art, you were proabably at such an exhibition, where the sheer fact that "someone was bothering to do something with a shitty camera automatically means that their work is going to be awesome" its called Hype Originally posted by forensicscientist my point exactly. If quality of equipment (and cost) were the only factors involved in good photographs, how then did the great shots of the 1940's, or WWII ever get recorded? While "better" equipment often makes it easier to get the good shots, I firmly believe that the truly great photographers can capture great shots with almost any type of camera....they just know the limitations of the equipment, and use those limitations to their advantage. i have in my drawer pictures of my great grandfather and some even predating him that i just got on my trip to russia. While they are quite sharp on 6X7 prints, you can definetly start to see flaws in skin tones, edge softness (lots of that) and blown highlights, while fun to look at they simply dont match the capabilities of modern equipment. if WW2 era intrests you so much, why are you here, using the internet, with a digital camera? Hypocrite.

12-10-2008, 04:22 AM	#21
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	maybe if you would have posted an introduction of yourself rather than an off handed "test", you would not get such a hostile response there are enough people on this board who are not pro-anything, they are neither pentax fanboys nor other brand fan boys, they simply appreciate the technological side of things. and posts like yours rub them the wrong way.

12-10-2008, 06:07 AM	#22
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	tppentax, As you haven't been around here that long I think what you are missing is a general avoidance to criticize other brands. Pentax is a smaller line with few bodies and lenses and some limitations at this time. So I find that most here try to avoid showing Pentax as the superior camera against the "big 2" brands simply to avoid a flame war coming back our way. All of today's brands are very good quality with strengths and weaknesses. No need to even appear to trash one against another. Then you add Gooshin to the mix with his coarse style and a thread starts going in the crapper. We've all learned to ignore him as much as possible. Have a look around, it's better than you think. Excellent work by the way. I for one would hope to see more from Greece (my family's homeland) and your other work.

12-10-2008, 07:11 AM	#23
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	i only steer titanic threads towards the crapper

12-10-2008, 08:51 AM	#24
arbutusq Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Vancouver BC canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 380	Don't let this thread deter you from hanging around here. I really like the two car photos in your above post and would love to hear how you get such rich colors.

12-10-2008, 10:40 AM	#25
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Gooshin maybe if you would have posted an introduction of yourself rather than an off handed "test", you would not get such a hostile response there are enough people on this board who are not pro-anything, they are neither pentax fanboys nor other brand fan boys, they simply appreciate the technological side of things. and posts like yours rub them the wrong way. Yikes! Gooshin! I just came upon this thread today and my eyes got bigger the further I read! This forum used to be a friendly place...especially for newcomers. Now, I understand the objections and technical fine points, but really Is the dark time getting the best of all of us in the northern hemisphere? Steve BTW...tppentax, welcome to the group. It is not always this way!

12-10-2008, 12:03 PM	#27
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,205	I sincerely hope no one took offense from my little play on the word bullock - it was simply a joke aimed at nobody in particular - certainly not the OP. Since its inception, this forum has been remarkably friendly compared with other enthusiast forums I've participated in. There is the occasional sour thread, but most are pretty enjoyable. Jer

12-11-2008, 04:53 AM	#30
ll_coffee_lP Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,972	Originally posted by Gooshin ...and remember last year, with the K20D/K200D rumor threads, Adam having to upgrade the server because it was getting choked!!! where are all those people now, those that caused so much controversy's and some seriously aggressive threads. Not unlike how this one was headed. Peter...Thank you for succinctly capturing the essence of the forum (i.e. putting a lid on it). Welcome to our new member! c[_]