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01-07-2009, 02:16 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by rverhag Quote
Tomorrow i will send my K20D back for repair.

I didn't read the whole thread but i understand some of you want to know it is possible to reproduce it. With my camera i can for almost 70%-80%. (B)ulb-setting. Exposure > 60-70 secs. It appears in- and outdoors with different memorycards, different lenses, different ISO's, etc. So for me it's not a temperature-issue.

In normal conditions i have vertical banding with every 4-5 out of 200 photos.


From PhotoMe: Pentax Model: K20D, Manufacture date: 2008-04-03, Production ID: 1, Internal Serial number: 11172
I gave my K20D quite a workout (including 60-70 sec bulb photos) and did not encounter any issues with banding or otherwise. It must be a random problem and/or an issue with long-term use (I have only taken about 200 photos thus far).

01-07-2009, 04:59 PM   #77
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If a K10 is facing this problem, I seriously doubt this issue is a design flaw - it's more likely a manufacturing defect.

As part of a scientific experiment in cosmic radiation, PentaxPoke launched his K10D aboard a sounding balloon, over 100,000 ft high. Per his post, the camera was exposed to the harshness of space, vacuum, changes in pressure, -60F (no heaters on board)...

Here's the 1st launch:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/31970-pentax-k10d-space.html

and the second launch:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/43930-pentax-k10d-space-ii.html

Badly designed equipment does not perform in such a way under such conditions.

I would like to think the same about the K20D
01-10-2009, 06:15 PM   #78
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I was the first to reply such issue on May 2008 on the dpreview. In my case Pentax engeneers refused to replace the camera, saying that they couldn't reproduce the effect and think on radio interference, so I still use tat camera. Now I can say:

1. No any interference.
2. Temperature trend exists but is not absolute - under 10 C the effect becomes 3-4 times more often.
3. The effect depends on composition and this is reproducable. If appears - I repeat the shot, stripes repeat. I turn the camera 20 degrees aside, shoot again - no stripes. I return the camera back to original, shoot - again stripees. Often (50% cases) changing ANYTHING (ISO, aperture, DR enchancement on/off etc) also stops striping.
4. Another trend noticed - low contrast shots, especially shots with fog, enforce the effect to appear 3-4 times more often.
01-11-2009, 03:32 AM   #79
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Hi all,

I also encountered this problem yesterday:



This is (roughly) a 50% crop. There were 2 succeeding cases out of 127 pictures, somewhere in the middle of the shoot. Outside temp was around 0dgrs Celcius.

This camera is just a month old. The only thing I did was switching from PEF to DNG before the shoot so I was wondering if that could make any difference?


Last edited by TenZ; 01-11-2009 at 03:46 AM.
01-15-2009, 10:35 AM   #80
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Hi everyone,

i've been out for a month and haven't replied

so here is the latest news from pentax canada

they will change my camera to a refurbished one

they do not acknowledge the problem though. they just don't want any fuzz
they pretend that i was taking shots below 0 cel and so its not their fault
thought i had many shots taken above 0 and they're just stupidly arguing

this is somewhat disappointing. ok for a refurbished k20 as i had taken 8000 shots with it
but not recognizing the flaw is stupidity especially given all the replies to this thread

i hope pentax in Switzerland is less stubborn, as i am moving there.

i also bought a k-m, as i need a camera, it worked like a charm at -25 celcious

as soon as i get a replacement k20, i will try it extensively, and i will see.
if it is not working as expected, we'll i'll ask for money back and if i have to i'll take a lawyer as it was suggested in a post in this thread.
if people are experiencing problems like me with pentax, perhaps we can join and do something together .

hope it doesn't have to go that far though
01-16-2009, 04:22 AM   #81
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K20D out in the cold

Hi,
Just been reading about the possible temp probs with batteries in the K20D. The thing I was disappointed about with the K10D and especially the K20D is the fact that they do not have a remote battery pack accessory like my trusty LX. The battery was removed and a plug inserted into the battery housing. The plug had a longish cable that connects to the battery, which can be in a coat or trouser pocket - in the warm. I am sure some enterprising firm could make up something similar for these cameras as they use the same battery!

Come on pentax - what happened to all those good accessories you used to make in the film camera days...

01-16-2009, 05:30 AM   #82
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Hi!

Can we try to clear things out or speak to any person that works in pentax?
I live in sweden and I can't say that our climate on the winter is very hot, so
If it's true with the temperature-banding on k20d I think I will go for an other
camera If it is problem with the sensor? well I don't know, but at least it
seams to appear much times for much people and I could kill if I was miss
a fantastic shot becasue of red and green stripes all around the picture.

Better inform pentax so the brand new k30d not come with the same problem.

I tell you. One first-review from a important magazine and they start to speak
about green and red banding pentax will lose ground and all the market.

So how do we do?

Emil G
01-16-2009, 10:59 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by losecontrol Quote
Hi!

Can we try to clear things out or speak to any person that works in pentax?
I live in sweden and I can't say that our climate on the winter is very hot, so
If it's true with the temperature-banding on k20d I think I will go for an other
camera If it is problem with the sensor? well I don't know, but at least it
seams to appear much times for much people and I could kill if I was miss
a fantastic shot becasue of red and green stripes all around the picture.

Better inform pentax so the brand new k30d not come with the same problem.

I tell you. One first-review from a important magazine and they start to speak
about green and red banding pentax will lose ground and all the market.

So how do we do?

Emil G
Well you must be careful of saying "but at least it
seams to appear much times for much people" since there have only been a few complaints and it is impossible to determine the percentage of problems vs non-problem cameras...
It does look like an annoying manuf defect in some models... Having it is one thing. Pentax not dealing with customers w/ problems is another....
K20/200/10/100 are not new cameras in any sense of the word and reviews are a-plenty. Now this issue may make the next batch of reviewers take a closer look but it's certainly not a fatal problem currently...

01-17-2009, 06:23 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by losecontrol Quote
Hi!

If it is problem with the sensor? well I don't know, but at least it
seams to appear much times for much people and I could kill if I was miss
a fantastic shot becasue of red and green stripes all around the picture.

So how do we do?

Emil G
(1) As I understand reading russian forums - only in Russia there were sold at least 50 k20d with this problev, varying from 1 spoiled shot from 3 to 2 spoiled shots from 1000.

(2) Silky Pix created a special tool for extracting "something useful" from spoiled shots. This means lots of cameras with this problem.

(3) Definitely this is NOT sensor. This comes from interlace while reading the sensor by 2 ADC. The error appears in one of 2 ADC. One of them doesn't start reading if not enough heated or something like that. Definitely the error issue appears BEFORE the shot - while processing metering and AF data. The weak place that may cause the ADC not to start may appear to be the system BUS. Some other rare events show this possibility.
02-04-2009, 02:47 AM   #85
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Hello,
I tested a k20d in a shop in Romania and all images at high ISO 1600, 3200 have an horizontal line


Manufacture Date : 2008:02:12
Production Code : 2.4
Internal Serial Number : 59690
Attached Images
     
Attached Files
File Type: txt 1.txt (7.9 KB, 125 views)
File Type: txt 2.txt (7.9 KB, 140 views)
02-06-2009, 04:13 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I'm still having this problem, a lot now that we are in winter.

Here is another example, full size available on flickr.


Montreal City Hall (Hôtel de ville) on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

My experience shows that it IS related to coldness. It never happen indoor unless I come back from outside. If this condition is met, I have the problem indoor.

The problem has not always the same magnitude. On some shots it's barely visible and I see it only on darker parts of the picture.

The way i try to fix it is to take multiple shots and use liveview. It may works sometimes but I'm not sure it's not just random.

I don't want to send the camera yet because I need it and I'm not confident they can fix it.
The few times it happened to me was while shooting out in the cold, so far I haven't seen it with indoor shots.
Now I am reluctant to take it out with me in cold weather, which is too bad since I mainly upgraded to it for the weather sealing and the higher MP that I can use for cropping images. I just hope the lines don't show up on my images when warmer weather comes around.
02-06-2009, 05:22 AM   #87
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Damn it. I had plans to order a K20D but now I totally lost my interest to do so when reading this. I do shoot in the cold and pretty often during the winter. I would be royally pissed off after spending hours out there just to return and find part of the images ruined by banding problems.
02-06-2009, 08:52 AM   #88
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Not everybody has these problems, Maffer. I live in a cold country and shoot in the winter all the time with zero banding problems.
02-06-2009, 09:09 AM   #89
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Oh well, true that. It's just the fact that I would order the camera from an internet store not located in Finland and in case of a lemon there would be lots of hassle with the service. Have had lots of bad luck with online purchases lately :/
02-07-2009, 05:29 AM   #90
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Has anyone else had their copy fixed and how? Mine just came back from the service with a new CMOS-sensor. Haven't tested the camera yet so much to tell if the service has helped. Hoping for the best though .

QuoteOriginally posted by Maffer Quote
Oh well, true that. It's just the fact that I would order the camera from an internet store not located in Finland and in case of a lemon there would be lots of hassle with the service. Have had lots of bad luck with online purchases lately :/
In EU the warranty should be valid in each country, if the product is purchased in EU.
This time the finnish Pentax service had taken a step in the right direction, compared to my earlier experiences. This time even the response time was ok.
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