K20D vertical strips

Maffer · 02-07-2009, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by solisti

Has anyone else had their copy fixed and how? Mine just came back from the service with a new CMOS-sensor. Haven't tested the camera yet so much to tell if the service has helped. Hoping for the best though

.

In EU the warranty should be valid in each country, if the product is purchased in EU.
This time the finnish Pentax service had taken a step in the right direction, compared to my earlier experiences. This time even the response time was ok.

Good & Good to hear that the finnish service is available. I'll place my order on monday and will report of my experiences shooting out there.

phler2 · 02-07-2009, 11:05 AM

So i finally got my camera changed

they said it would be a refurbished one, which could be the case
the shutter counter however is around 100 from the exif. so it might have been a k20d which has not passed a test to be sold
indeed, the AE-L button is not working properly, that is, it doenst have the tactile feedback it is suppose to
but, it still works. so i just wont complain again.

i'm not totally satisfied with their service, especially given that they are arguing they will not officially recognise the problem.
and that could be a good enougth reason to go for the big two, since at least they will have a better service (i know canon does). that is unfortunate though.

I took the k20 out, and didn't have the banding problem, thought i did not have chance to test it thoroughly

for the people having this problem and getting the sensor changed. be careful, since it is not the sensor itself, but the analog/digital conversion while reading the sensor which is problematic here
so it might not solve the problem.

Phaser · 02-12-2009, 05:56 AM

Hello
I allso have problems with my k20d
number 2939994
shutter count 4950

100%crop of 8sec iso100 -10c
100crop on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
It's vertical lines, And they are all over the image.

It apeard on all the iso 100 shots that day (4) but not on iso 200. I discovered it on the cam screen and just changed to iso 200.
I shall try to reproduse the fault to day. I think it wil drop to below -20 to night.

Edit
Was out and did some testing now. Put the camera with half battery outside in -14c for 30min. Then did some shooting and from 80shots in bouth manual and p with iso 100 there was 7-8 images with clearly visible stripes. all among the 20first pictures. shutespeeds from 1/60 to 1/500
camera temprature from photo me. from +1c to -8c showing stripes

Edit2
Shot two pictures to night. Same settings, iso 100 30sec. One with antishake turned on(like all the other pictures, forgotten to turn it off) and one with antishake turned off.
On=stripes Off= No stripes
Soon a new day and more testing

Edit3
Recived answer from the Norwegian Pentax importer today. They have done some mailing with Pentax and come to the conclusion that the C-mos chip needs to be replaced. Maybe i should try that then? I see phler2 says it might not be the problem :/

phler2 · 02-14-2009, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by Phaser

Recived answer from the Norwegian Pentax importer today. They have done some mailing with Pentax and come to the conclusion that the C-mos chip needs to be replaced. Maybe i should try that then? I see phler2 says it might not be the problem :/

well, if pentax engineers says its the problem, i wouldnt argue
however on DP forums i read a guy had its sensor changed and it didnt solve the problem
he had to return the camera again to get it replaced

Phaser · 02-14-2009, 11:18 AM

I looked trough some older pictures and found one that is taken in, i guess +5c. It was realy muddy so not below 0c. Photo ME shows +19c It has purple and green banding. More in parts of the image than others. It shows it happens inside the Pentax temprature range as well. So i'm gonna claim my waranty.

jeffkrol · 02-14-2009, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by phler2

well, if pentax engineers says its the problem, i wouldnt argue
however on DP forums i read a guy had its sensor changed and it didnt solve the problem
he had to return the camera again to get it replaced

One of the problems is speculated to be w/ the ADC modules and read timing. I'm pretty sure they are circuits printed right on the CMOS chip. Having the CMOS replaced and having the same problem could just mean another bad CMOS..................

phler2 · 02-20-2009, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

One of the problems is speculated to be w/ the ADC modules and read timing. I'm pretty sure they are circuits printed right on the CMOS chip. Having the CMOS replaced and having the same problem could just mean another bad CMOS..................

probable, and guess what,
the camera that i had to replace my first one (had it replace end of january) is faulty too.... damit. since i was moving i didnt had time to test it much before

i have moved to Switzerland and contacted pentax there
they replied very fast and i have send it again.
they said it would be the sensor...
hope to here good news soon. i mean the k20 is a great camera but i really want one that actually works even below 15celcius. Lausanne is not quebec but it still is chilly out there

Last edited by phler2; 02-20-2009 at 08:53 AM. Reason: typo

Maffer · 02-20-2009, 01:05 PM

I received my K20D few days ago (brand new production unit with HOYA branded firmware 1.01 included) and tomorrow morning I'm going to take it for a ride in the wild. It should be something between -5 and -10C. I'll report my findings.

pentaxmz · 02-20-2009, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Maffer

I received my K20D few days ago (brand new production unit with HOYA branded firmware 1.01 included) and tomorrow morning I'm going to take it for a ride in the wild. It should be something between -5 and -10C. I'll report my findings.

Thanks for reporting back. Be sure to note the temperature reading in the EXIF. Just so that we know the internal part of the camera was at an equilibrium with the outside temperature.

Winter is over where I live (at least I hope), so I can't do any further cold weather testing. The coldest internal temperature I recorded was 8 degrees Celsius.

Mostly off-topic... but I recently noticed this odd grid-like pattern in photos taken with my new Canon SD770IS p+s camera. The pattern shows up in the sky (blue) and actually appears (if one looks carefully enough) in prints. I am not sure if it will appear in other solid colors.

Maffer · 02-21-2009, 04:32 PM

Ookay, my K20D survived out there in -8C without a hitch. Took about 100 shots, none of which had vertical stripes or other nasties. EXIF data says that the sensor temp was about +5-6C though... :S Dunno how that can be as the camera sure was exposed to the environment more than 3 hours in a row.

Random image from the set:

**jbinpg** · 02-21-2009, 06:13 PM

I was out last night doing astrophotography with my K20D. Ambient temperature -8C. Camera temperature after acclimatization shown as +2C. So I think the temperature is actually the sensor temperature which must be giving off some heat with the 20 minute exposure. Shots were flawless after mandatory DFS save for a few hot pixels that survived.

Jack

solisti · 02-23-2009, 09:33 AM

Mine shows similar symptoms even with the new sensor. Just my luck

.
Well at least my istDs works ok.

JHfwp · 03-04-2009, 03:02 AM

I'm not sure how to subscribe to this without posting first. I'll have more to say when it's not 5:00 am.

Pothers · 03-04-2009, 01:59 PM

I was having the same vertical banding issue as well. I say was as mine has now been fixed. I sent it back to Pentax UK in January and they returned it 2 weeks later with a new circuit board which seems to have solved the problem.

Unfortunately I have had to send it back as I now have an image quality issue.

.

raider · 03-06-2009, 03:42 AM

Just a curious question. If you set the k20D to shoot at say 10MP instead of 14.2MP, will it still produce banding problems?

02-07-2009, 11:05 AM	#92
phler2 Giveaway winner! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Original Poster	camera change by pentax So i finally got my camera changed they said it would be a refurbished one, which could be the case the shutter counter however is around 100 from the exif. so it might have been a k20d which has not passed a test to be sold indeed, the AE-L button is not working properly, that is, it doenst have the tactile feedback it is suppose to but, it still works. so i just wont complain again. i'm not totally satisfied with their service, especially given that they are arguing they will not officially recognise the problem. and that could be a good enougth reason to go for the big two, since at least they will have a better service (i know canon does). that is unfortunate though. I took the k20 out, and didn't have the banding problem, thought i did not have chance to test it thoroughly for the people having this problem and getting the sensor changed. be careful, since it is not the sensor itself, but the analog/digital conversion while reading the sensor which is problematic here so it might not solve the problem.

02-12-2009, 05:56 AM	#93
Phaser Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Norway Photos: Gallery Posts: 73	Hello I allso have problems with my k20d number 2939994 shutter count 4950 100%crop of 8sec iso100 -10c 100crop on Flickr - Photo Sharing! It's vertical lines, And they are all over the image. It apeard on all the iso 100 shots that day (4) but not on iso 200. I discovered it on the cam screen and just changed to iso 200. I shall try to reproduse the fault to day. I think it wil drop to below -20 to night. Edit Was out and did some testing now. Put the camera with half battery outside in -14c for 30min. Then did some shooting and from 80shots in bouth manual and p with iso 100 there was 7-8 images with clearly visible stripes. all among the 20first pictures. shutespeeds from 1/60 to 1/500 camera temprature from photo me. from +1c to -8c showing stripes Edit2 Shot two pictures to night. Same settings, iso 100 30sec. One with antishake turned on(like all the other pictures, forgotten to turn it off) and one with antishake turned off. On=stripes Off= No stripes Soon a new day and more testing Edit3 Recived answer from the Norwegian Pentax importer today. They have done some mailing with Pentax and come to the conclusion that the C-mos chip needs to be replaced. Maybe i should try that then? I see phler2 says it might not be the problem :/ Last edited by Phaser; 02-13-2009 at 07:55 AM.

03-04-2009, 01:59 PM	#104
Pothers New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Devon,UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 3	I was having the same vertical banding issue as well. I say was as mine has now been fixed. I sent it back to Pentax UK in January and they returned it 2 weeks later with a new circuit board which seems to have solved the problem. Unfortunately I have had to send it back as I now have an image quality issue..

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02-07-2009, 05:48 AM	#91
Maffer Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Finland Photos: Gallery Posts: 308	Originally posted by solisti Has anyone else had their copy fixed and how? Mine just came back from the service with a new CMOS-sensor. Haven't tested the camera yet so much to tell if the service has helped. Hoping for the best though . In EU the warranty should be valid in each country, if the product is purchased in EU. This time the finnish Pentax service had taken a step in the right direction, compared to my earlier experiences. This time even the response time was ok. Good & Good to hear that the finnish service is available. I'll place my order on monday and will report of my experiences shooting out there.

02-14-2009, 01:43 AM	#94
phler2 Giveaway winner! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Original Poster	Originally posted by Phaser Recived answer from the Norwegian Pentax importer today. They have done some mailing with Pentax and come to the conclusion that the C-mos chip needs to be replaced. Maybe i should try that then? I see phler2 says it might not be the problem :/ well, if pentax engineers says its the problem, i wouldnt argue however on DP forums i read a guy had its sensor changed and it didnt solve the problem he had to return the camera again to get it replaced

02-14-2009, 11:18 AM	#95
Phaser Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Norway Photos: Gallery Posts: 73	I looked trough some older pictures and found one that is taken in, i guess +5c. It was realy muddy so not below 0c. Photo ME shows +19c It has purple and green banding. More in parts of the image than others. It shows it happens inside the Pentax temprature range as well. So i'm gonna claim my waranty.

02-14-2009, 12:17 PM	#96
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by phler2 well, if pentax engineers says its the problem, i wouldnt argue however on DP forums i read a guy had its sensor changed and it didnt solve the problem he had to return the camera again to get it replaced One of the problems is speculated to be w/ the ADC modules and read timing. I'm pretty sure they are circuits printed right on the CMOS chip. Having the CMOS replaced and having the same problem could just mean another bad CMOS..................

02-20-2009, 08:52 AM	#97
phler2 Giveaway winner! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 48 Original Poster	Originally posted by jeffkrol One of the problems is speculated to be w/ the ADC modules and read timing. I'm pretty sure they are circuits printed right on the CMOS chip. Having the CMOS replaced and having the same problem could just mean another bad CMOS.................. probable, and guess what, the camera that i had to replace my first one (had it replace end of january) is faulty too.... damit. since i was moving i didnt had time to test it much before i have moved to Switzerland and contacted pentax there they replied very fast and i have send it again. they said it would be the sensor... hope to here good news soon. i mean the k20 is a great camera but i really want one that actually works even below 15celcius. Lausanne is not quebec but it still is chilly out there Last edited by phler2; 02-20-2009 at 08:53 AM. Reason: typo

02-20-2009, 01:05 PM	#98
Maffer Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Finland Photos: Gallery Posts: 308	I received my K20D few days ago (brand new production unit with HOYA branded firmware 1.01 included) and tomorrow morning I'm going to take it for a ride in the wild. It should be something between -5 and -10C. I'll report my findings.

02-20-2009, 06:58 PM	#99
pentaxmz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 659	Originally posted by Maffer I received my K20D few days ago (brand new production unit with HOYA branded firmware 1.01 included) and tomorrow morning I'm going to take it for a ride in the wild. It should be something between -5 and -10C. I'll report my findings. Thanks for reporting back. Be sure to note the temperature reading in the EXIF. Just so that we know the internal part of the camera was at an equilibrium with the outside temperature. Winter is over where I live (at least I hope), so I can't do any further cold weather testing. The coldest internal temperature I recorded was 8 degrees Celsius. Mostly off-topic... but I recently noticed this odd grid-like pattern in photos taken with my new Canon SD770IS p+s camera. The pattern shows up in the sky (blue) and actually appears (if one looks carefully enough) in prints. I am not sure if it will appear in other solid colors.

02-21-2009, 04:32 PM	#100
Maffer Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Finland Photos: Gallery Posts: 308	Ookay, my K20D survived out there in -8C without a hitch. Took about 100 shots, none of which had vertical stripes or other nasties. EXIF data says that the sensor temp was about +5-6C though... :S Dunno how that can be as the camera sure was exposed to the environment more than 3 hours in a row. Random image from the set:

02-21-2009, 06:13 PM	#101
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	I was out last night doing astrophotography with my K20D. Ambient temperature -8C. Camera temperature after acclimatization shown as +2C. So I think the temperature is actually the sensor temperature which must be giving off some heat with the 20 minute exposure. Shots were flawless after mandatory DFS save for a few hot pixels that survived. Jack

02-23-2009, 09:33 AM	#102
solisti Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 70	Mine shows similar symptoms even with the new sensor. Just my luck . Well at least my istDs works ok.

03-04-2009, 03:02 AM	#103
JHfwp Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 876	I'm not sure how to subscribe to this without posting first. I'll have more to say when it's not 5:00 am.

03-06-2009, 03:42 AM	#105
raider Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,989	Just a curious question. If you set the k20D to shoot at say 10MP instead of 14.2MP, will it still produce banding problems?