[Sandy Hancock]

Did I miss the brief? Is Pentax DOOOOOMMMMED??

You'll get another decade out of your Pentax gear. At least I hope so - I just bought a second-hand DFA645 90/2.8 Macro. Luckily the 645Z takes the same battery as the K-1

[BigMackCam]

Did I miss the brief? Is Pentax DOOOOOMMMMED??

Apparently so, because Ricoh hasn't issued any press release to the contrary. What more proof do you need?

Same for me. I didn't worry about my Sony laptop. I didn't worry because 1) I paid 800 Euro for it, and 2) when the laptop performance became obsolete after using it for 8 years (100 Euro/year, I can afford it), there wasn't 12 000 Euro of lenses attached to it. I just bought a new laptop for 1000 Ero and put the old laptop to rest.

ILC are different beasts. First, cameras gets obsolete much faster than the lenses, lenses can be used for many many years if there is a camera body still working with those lenses. Second, depending on how many lenses we buy, lenses may represent a rather serious amount of money, not so disposable anymore (at least not for me, I'm not a billionaire, not even a millionaire, that's the problem). The laptop obsolescence situation could be compared to a bridge camera, or a compact camera or a smartphone. For example , some Pentaxians have a DA 560, it's not a cheap lens, if you owned it, you won't say "well, if I have no new camera to use the lens it's no problem, I'll get another 600mm lens for 10 000 euros, I print money " . For cars, there is an obligation to supply parts for 20 years, if I'm not mistaken. For nuclear power plants, the obligation is 50 years or more (I'd have to check), if you sell a power plant to a customer you have to obligation to be able to supply parts for 50 years or so. What about camera systems?

A fully working camera with currently-supported lens mount is only obsolete in one's imagination, biz. My K10D works with almost every K-mount lens I own, and still takes the same great photos it did back in 2006, when folks raved about the image quality. It's long-since superseded, but far from obsolete. They're two very different things

That aside, I quote my earlier post:

But let's say the worst happens - Ricoh ceases to manufacture Pentax products and, instead of selling that part of its business to a third party (as would almost certainly happen - e.g. Olympus), it simply mothballs the operation and stops supporting the products... and then, in a freakish coincidence of timing, your K-1 and K-1II die simultaneously and you can't get them repaired. Your contingency here is to either (a) buy another K-1 or K-1II from the used market, or (b) sell your remaining K-mount lenses and accessories to the many folks still willingly shooting Pentax, and put the resulting funds towards a new system.

As I said, you've nothing to worry about. Or, if you insist on worrying, no amount of reasoning will placate you

You could do what I've done with my favourite Samsung GX-10, which is to buy another spare body now (actually, I bought two spares - plus a K10D ). But really, there's absolutely no need given the expected shutter life of your existing cameras and the number of K-1 and K-1II bodies out there. You'll be able to pick up a used example for sensible money if and when needed. But if you can't, well... sell your lenses and start afresh with a new system. There will always be plenty of folks ready to buy your K-mount gear, especially given your previously-discussed approach to pricing. It's really no big deal unless you allow it to be...

EDIT: I'm one of thousands still buying Minolta AF / Sony A-mount equipment, long after the mount was silently retired. I have no problem sourcing gear that I want, and folks seem to have very little trouble liquidating theirs. Supply and demand remains plentiful, albeit tailing off very slowly. I've no reason to suspect it would be any different with K-mount equipment, should Ricoh cease its Pentax operations...

[biz-engineer]

As I said, you've nothing to worry about. Or, if you insist on worrying, no amount of reasoning will placate you

Some reasoning will convince me up to 90%.

ou'll get another decade out of your Pentax gear. At least I hope so - I just bought a second-hand DFA645 90/2.8 Macro.

You have a good point. I'd feel better if I owned a 645z with FA lenses, simply because the way medium format is used grants a much longer useful life time of the system. Full frame is a little more tricky, I hope I'll still be happy with 36Mpixels and 33 AF points at 4 frames per second in 5 or 10 years from now. If I use my K1 like an MF system (static shots), then fine, but the day I'll want to shoot a little bit moving people or a little more resolution, the K1 is going to look like night & day compared to the basic models available from other brands. There is still a lot of progress on specifications of full frame systems, even in the last two years.

---------- Post added 01-02-22 at 14:17 ----------

Just to put things into perspective:
- Considering 645z, what Hasselbald and Fuji did was just to reuse the same sensor, same FPS, just new lenses and different color science, but nothing revolutionary. And today Fuji are selling their GFX50SII , released in 2021 , still having the same basic spec that the 645z has, the gap isn't big with competition, 645z still up to date IMO.
- When Pentax K1 was released, it was one of the best cameras for the money, head to head with Nikon D800E / D810, except the K1 had more features (astrotracer, pixelshift, IBIS, night mode etc) price 30% less, Pentax K1 was a good deal. Now in 2022, the Pentax K1 specifications have been burried by Sony, Nikon and Canon, in terms of resolution, af points and frame rates, only price is still the strong point of the Pentax K1, and that's without considering the Sony A1 and Nikon Z9. I think the main problem is not even Pentax, the problem is that CanikonSony aren't waiting for Pentax to catchup, we should ask them to slow down

[BigMackCam]

Some reasoning will convince me up to 90%.

You have a good point. I'd feel better if I owned a 645z with FA lenses, simply because the way medium format is use grants a much longer useful life time of the system. Full frame is a little more tricky, I hope I'll still be happy with 36Mpixels and 33 AF points at 4 frames per second in 5 or 10 years from now. If I use my K1 like an MF system (static shots), then fine, but the day I'll want to shoot a little bit moving people or a little more resolution, the K1 is going to look like night & day compared to the basic models available from other brands. There is still a lot of progress on specifications of full frame systems.

The nature of your problem appears to be changing, biz. Initially, you were concerned at being able to keep your existing kit going in case of equipment failure or the end of Pentax. Now it appears you're more concerned about progression of the system to meet your increasing demands or desires... So, what are we dealing with here? What problem are you really looking to solve?

Perhaps you should sell all your Pentax gear now and buy into one of the bigger mirrorless platforms - Canon, Nikon, Sony or Fujifilm. They're going to release more equipment more frequently, to keep pace with your increasing requirements. None is completely immune to the declining market, so there's some risk whatever brand you shoot. If you prefer to stick with Pentax, you're simply going to have to accept its pace of development. No amount of wishing will change that.

There's no perfect answer in all this, but the options are pretty clear. The best one will depend on your personal appetite for different factors, and only you know what's truly important to you...

---

Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-01-2022 at 06:30 AM.

[biz-engineer]

The nature of your problem appears to be changing, biz. Initially, you were concerned at being able to keep your existing kit going in case of equipment failure or the end of Pentax.

I have mixed feelings. My Pentax glass is superb. top quality, also expensive. I would have a very hard time to let it go. On the other hand, I don't feel good to use a K1 in five year from now, I just don't see it, no matter how good is the glass.

So, my head oscillates between two scenarios:
A/ accepting to shoot with what's I'll consider old Pentax K1 in a few years from now and provision backup camera, batteries, spare parts to do so, I'll not be 100% happy anyway. Part of me will say "K1 is good enough" , other part of me will say "Look at what you could be shooting with if you were with Canikon"
B/ selling my Pentax glass and cameras to buy another system and get back on track, but I feel the emotional pain already of letting my Pentax system go, and I'm so used to Pentax designs that I'm not even sure I'd be happy with another brand
C/ I can get monster adapter, but I hate Sony cameras, and how good Pentax lenses would work with an adapter, some lenses will work fine , other lenses maybe not so much, I don't like that option.

So I'm currently with option A. Stock up D-LI90 , backup bodies and cross fingers that Ricoh ultimately does something to help my case hope for the best and be patient, or just lose patience that throw the baby altogether.

[BigMackCam]

I have mixed feelings. My Pentax glass is superb. top quality, also expensive. I would have a very hard time to let it go. On the other hand, I don't feel good to use a K1 in five year from now, I just don't see it, no matter how good is the glass.

So, my head oscillates between two scenarios:
- accepting to shoot with what's I'll consider old Pentax K1 in a few years from now and provision backup camera, batteries, spare parts to do so, I'll not be 100% happy anyway
- selling my Pentax glass, to buy another system , but I feel the emotional pain already, and I'm so used to Pentax designs that I'm not even sure I'd be happy with another brand

Whilst I don't think you'll have to shoot with a K-1 in a few years (because I'm quite sure a K-1II replacement will be released in the next year or two), that's immaterial - because you think it, and it clearly bothers you. You've distilled your problem and come up with two options - neither of which gives you everything you want, but that's life. So be it. Make a decision, draw a line, move forward and don't look back. To me, it sounds like you'd be happier with a busier product development and release schedule than Pentax can offer, but only you can decide whether that's more important than your current glass. What's it going to be?

[biz-engineer]

To me, it sounds like you'd be happier with a busier product development and release schedule than Pentax can offer, but only you can decide...

I've been using Pentax for 20 years, been involved emotionally over the course of the Pentax story unfolding in the digital era, from the K10 to now. Quitting Pentax after twenty years, it's like having to shoot your own dog after 20 years of friendship because he can't go the distance anymore. You just wish the dog makes an effort to do the extra mile.

[BigMackCam]

I've been using Pentax for 20 years, been involved emotionally over the course of the Pentax story unfolding in the digital era, from the K10 to now. Quitting Pentax after twenty years, it's like having to shoot your own dog after 20 years of friendship because he can't go the distance anymore. You just wish the dog makes an effort to do the extra mile.

Wishing won't help, biz - nor will emotional attachment, or procrastination because of it. You know this - you're an intelligent guy. You have all the facts in the equation, plus some personal opinions and predictions which may or may not have any basis, but regardless they're causing you concern. You've all the information you need - and every reason - to make a decision one way or another and move on from it with no regrets, which I assure you will be hugely liberating. It's just gear we're talking about - not your dog. If you truly feel that same kind of emotional attachment, then you'll willingly accept the brand's failings... but let's face it, you wouldn't really be wondering whether you should keep your canine friend of 20 years or trade him in for a different one that better suits your growing needs... would you?

[UncleVanya]

On the battery front:

1) the grip, as mentioned earlier, allows AA batteries. This is pretty much future proof.

2) the cells inside your existing batteries might be replaced, this isn’t easy given that they are sealed up, but it should be possible.

3) older camera batteries seem to still be available for a long time after.

On the other parts front: you might want to get a parts camera if things get dicey. But this is not something I’d suggest to do typically. Look at the existing 35mm SLRs that people maintain to this day from the 1960’s-1990’s. (Those with complex electronics are not easy without spare parts)

As to the aging specifications… here we have to stop and think about things. The k3iii has given us a glimpse into what Ricoh can do. So too have the d fa 50/85/21’s. The future releases are clearly geared towards very high image quality, albeit slowly released. 36mp isn’t much of a limitation, The A7riii I have is only around 17% higher pixel count - perceptually that’s virtually indistinguishable in a/b/x comparisons. Given that standard ff has mostly standardized on 24mp (the a7iv bring one outlier) 33mp is still a fine number.

Where the k1 falls short of the market:
* AF speed and accuracy. (Does this matter in your shots? If not who cares!)
* Frame rates. (How frequently has this been an issue for you?)
* buffer size (here the slower frame rate probably helps a little).

So then the question of what doesn’t have those limitations comes up.

Let’s say you decide Sony is where you want to be. Is an A1 at 50mp and $6k worth changing? Or an A7RIVa for $3500? And the lenses to match?

I’m shooting Sony FF because my dad decided he wanted to give me one and he got one himself. I made casual remarks about the Monster adapter before it was ever released and he ran headlong into Sony without my input. Do I like my a7riii? Yes. Did I like the A7rII? Yes. Are they outclassed by many newer bodies - yes. Does their lack of current specs make any real difference to my images - no.

Following this one more step… the sensor performance of the k-1/k-1ii is in the top ten sensors in the history of digital imaging interchangeable lens cameras. That technology hasn’t changed as fast as many of the pundits would have you think.

Where you are missing vs a7r series:
I) new glass choices from 3rd party. No contest Sony is super popular and everyone makes lenses for it including autofocus.
II) EVF - if you like using one
III) Electronic shutter with viewfinder… sometimes worth it.
IV) not having to fine tune autofocus - this is one thing I really like.
V) really long lenses - but it will cost you.
VI) really optically fast options - but it will cost you.

However you give up:

+) superb weather resistance
+) the moon lander screen
+) OVF
+) This community of support. Nothing close with Sony - I’ve looked.

With other Sony bodies action shooting might be a strong difference. With the A7riii I don’t know how much practical difference is there. Frame rates are higher, Card speed is higher, focus rates are a little faster.

I’m afraid I’m in both camps now. This is one reason I sold my m43 gear. I couldn’t really keep three separate system investments.

[IsaacReaves]

Although I live in France now long enough to start speaking anglais with an accent, I grew up in a family of auto mechanics and amateur racers in the USA. It wasn't until later that I got into Land Rovers and joined 4x4 clubs that I learned that in this hobby what most car guys are actually involved in is often a) collecting tools b) tinkering with cars or c) buying upgrades for their cars that they don't need. They might have an immaculate '63 Alfa Romeo or an enormous modified quat quat, but very few of them shared my dream to take off for the Baja 500, Skeleton Coast, or run a Mille Miglia in a classic 2 door roadster.

It isn't a critique and there is no shame in enjoying the hobby as you see fit. If you're tired of getting the fuel lines to stop leaking on the '63 and would rather have a classic BWM that doesn't pee on the garage floor and distract you from re-organizing your tools, by all means, just be honest with yourself and do that. You will still have many friends that want to use your garage and learn from your expertise. I have reconciled myself to understanding that driving across Africa doesn't take any particular skill besides being a little crazy and prepared also for divorce.

And so it is with photography. Collecting and obsessing over gear is a big part of the hobby itself, and we often take images to "see what the camera can do". Even speaking for myself, I don't shoot necessarily to make art. As a software engineer I just like tedium and complexity of the many processes involved in making an image. I am still learning to appreciate the outputs of the craft, even having considered doing it professionally in the early 2000s. Seldom do I actually manage to get inspired enough to make a great photograph, and I've learned to be okay with that.

I got a little tired of the m43 system and have had a burning curiosity about Pentax cameras for what seems now like a lifetime. Rather than sell all of your Pentax gear, maybe just look at another body a couple years old and get a K mount adapter and ease into the community and the system in general to see if you like it. As Mike says above - these are all just inanimate objects, they don't care about you in the least. It's nothing like a good dog at all.

cheers

[robgski]

Don’t worry about tomorrow, today has enough trouble of it’s own.

No matter which system you choose, you are only mortal, and your gear will pass onto someone via a rummage sale, or to the refuse heap.

This too is vanity and chasing after wind.

[BryantCP]

I have mixed feelings. My Pentax glass is superb. top quality, also expensive. I would have a very hard time to let it go. On the other hand, I don't feel good to use a K1 in five year from now, I just don't see it, no matter how good is the glass.

So, my head oscillates between two scenarios:
A/ accepting to shoot with what's I'll consider old Pentax K1 in a few years from now and provision backup camera, batteries, spare parts to do so, I'll not be 100% happy anyway. Part of me will say "K1 is good enough" , other part of me will say "Look at what you could be shooting with if you were with Canikon"
B/ selling my Pentax glass and cameras to buy another system and get back on track, but I feel the emotional pain already of letting my Pentax system go, and I'm so used to Pentax designs that I'm not even sure I'd be happy with another brand[
C/ I can get monster adapter, but I hate Sony cameras, and how good Pentax lenses would work with an adapter, some lenses will work fine , other lenses maybe not so much, I don't like that option.

So I'm currently with option A. Stock up D-LI90 , backup bodies and cross fingers that Ricoh ultimately does something to help my case hope for the best and be patient, or just lose patience that throw the baby altogether.

____________________________

I think that what I've highlighted above is what you should consider carefully. I don't have a K-1, though I do have several APSC Pentax cameras which I am very satisfied with. Since I was a Nikon user back in film days, I eventually bought a used Nikon D700 a few years ago - which I recently traded in on a Nikon D750. I never did really enjoy using the D700 - I didn't care for the bulk, weight & especially the ergonomics of it. I think the D750 will be a considerable improvement as well as a much more capable camera. Never-the-less I don't think I well ever enjoy using it nearly as much as any of my Pentax cameras. If I didn't have film era Nikkor lens I would have gone with a K-1 II when adding full frame. For my use the image quality of Pentax cameras is very comparable to other brands and for what I mostly photograph the ergonomics, features and build quality of Pentax cameras is more important. If you switch to something that is technically better in some ways but you don't enjoy using it would you be satisfied ?

[biz-engineer]

Let’s say you decide Sony is where you want to be. Is an A1 at 50mp and $6k worth changing? Or an A7RIVa for $3500? And the lenses to match?

A1 or Z9 plus 3 lenses doesn't cost more than a Pentax K1 with 9 lenses, cover the same focal length range and the imaging performance is a level higher both in resolution, speed and video specs. Of course 9 lenses cover more than 3 lenses , but not so much more actually, because there is some redundancy. What is better, better body with less lenses, or lesser body with more lenses, that's the question everyone can answer for himself.

---------- Post added 01-02-22 at 18:09 ----------

If you switch to something that is technically better in some ways but you don't enjoy using it would you be satisfied ?

That would require some effort of acceptance. Somehow I have some room to adapt also I haven't used a camera brand other than Pentax in 20 years.

[UncleVanya]

A1 or Z9 plus 3 lenses doesn't cost more than a Pentax K1 with 9 lenses, cover the same focal length range and the imaging performance is a level higher both in resolution, speed and video specs. Of course 9 lenses cover more than 3 lenses , but not so much more actually, because there is some redundancy. What is better, better body with less lenses, or lesser body with more lenses, that's the question everyone can answer for himself.

I'm going to ask you to show your calculations... because it depends on the specific 9 vs. the specific 3. Let's take a stroll down this path with my own calculations:

A1 $6500
GM 16-35 $2200
GM 24-70 $2200 (currently on sale for $2000)
GM 70-200 II $2800
Total: $13700 plus tax etc.

K1 $2250 (on sale currently for $1800)
D FA 15-30 $1450 (on sale currently for $1350)
D FA 24-70 $1300 (on sale for 1200)
D FA* 70-200 $1800 (on sale for 1700)
Total: $6800

You can swap around things a bit; for example if you toss in the Sony 100-400 (2500) vs. Pentax DFA 150-450 ($2000) you save another $500 (but probably need the 1.4x teleconverter on the Sony side pushing it to another $550 spent. However it is hard to get an a/b comparison where the ratio of numbers doesn't end up similar to what I am showing - nearly 2x cost for Sony - most of which is due to the A1! Sure you can add more on the Pentax side and the same can be true on the Sony side. Only you (currently) know what kit you would be comparing with.

For me - the K-1 was not an option I liked. The bulk of the camera plus the bulk of the 24-70 was more than I thought I would enjoy. The 28-105 probably would have sold me but I didn't have a place to try it. The bulk of the lenses for FF can be an issue with both systems although you can cherry pick smaller slower lenses and make that less of an issue easier with the Sony given the wider range of options in autofocus lenses. That's not an advantage per say - unless that's the way you prefer to shoot.

As someone who has used Pentax, Olympus, Samsung, Panasonic, and Sony I can say that in my experience the Panasonic (m43 gear only) was my 2nd favorite from a menu and function perspective. It was the easiest to navigate after Pentax. Sony is next and then Olympus. Olympus will always be last... lol. Samsung NX mirrorless was OK but it's been so long since I used it I'm not sure where to rank it. I feel like it was better than Sony, worse than Panasonic in terms of ease of use.

If it were me I would reach out to Chris Rankin (@lerolls) to ask him about his cross brand experiences. He recently sold off his K-1 gear but he has extensive experience with using Pentax and Sony, Panasonic, Sigma and Fuji. In the end I think Panasonic L alliance is his main go to system. I'm sure he can offer some perspective about switching that might be useful.

Here's my honest assessment: Any current gear from Sony, Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Pentax, and Fuji can get the job done. Heck even OM/Olympus can do 90% of it. You would be hard pressed to fail to find a way to make good images with any gear if you have any skill and talent. So use whatever makes you happy and don't obsess. I suggest if you think Sony is the way forward you get a Novaflex adapter and a cheaper body and try manual focus or see if a large number of your lenses are compatible with the LA-KE1 Monster Adapter for K on FE. This will allow you a certain amount of testing and you can decide if you like the system enough to invest in it. Rental is another route you can explore. I really didn't think I would end up with much Sony gear when I got the A7RII - but monster's delayed release drove me to get a few lenses. My collection is very modest and I hope that the LA-KE1 will allow me to keep it that way without hampering my ability to use the system. I'm lucky - I have the $ to dabble and I have a father to share my interests. I am not able to run out and buy whatever I want - so no A1's in my stable with multiple GM lenses... but that doesn't stop me from enjoying all my gear.

---------- Post added 02-01-22 at 01:29 PM ----------

NOTE that switching to the A7RIVa as the body of choice means dropping to $3500 vs. $6500 which makes the total $10700 not $13700 which is pretty significant but still nearly 60% more than the Pentax system. Only you can decide if 2x or 1.6x is worth the difference in cost for the potential benefits you see. Those cost numbers are not indicative of the costs on a lens only basis. The lenses seem to vary a lot. Many are only a 25% premium over Pentax until you get into the large primes... then things soar.

[ZombieArmy]

D-LI90 - Buy D-LI90 with free shipping on AliExpress

Finding batteries for a k-1 will not be a problem for the foreseeable future.