[biz-engineer]

You previously said that 36 Mp wasn't significantly better than 24, so why is 45 significantly better than 36?

That's right. That's why it is difficult to make any decision. Imagine Nikon would release a Z8 with 60Mpixel, I'll switch immediately to Nikon, but currently Z7II is only 45Mp unfortunately. You're going to say "you can get an A7RIV", yes but I totally dislike Sony UI and body designs (too small, too cheap).

---------- Post added 11-02-22 at 18:25 ----------

Secondly, as I already said in my previous post, you're worrying that Ricoh will stop developing one of its two best-selling camera lines... one that it's currently developing and releasing lenses for.

There is no indication that Ricoh are developping new full frame lenses. Last rumors I read here was that both the 70-300 SR lens project was put on hold, and the Pentax full frame project was also put on hold. And Ricoh recent press release indicate that they'll stop mass production of cameras, I don't see it as positive news.

[redrockcoulee]

Well, it's better to sell at 50% of list price than sell lenses for 10% of the price because there is no new Pentax camera worth buying lenses for it. To keep lens prices up, it is even more important that Ricoh keep releasing cameras that are competitive, because if they don't the market for K mount lenses will drop very low. Of course, I can always be convinced to keep all my Pentax gear by folks who didn't buy new Pentax gear for the last 10 years (and even sold some of it), but it's unlikely to happen. Keeping or selling is a bet, if Ricoh manage to release another full frame camera before they go bust, then keeping the Pentax lenses bet will pay off. Now if Ricoh aren't able to make another FF camera , selling now is better financial move.

You are sounding extremely pesstimistic. Are you sure Nikon or even Sony are goung to exist in the future?And

Curious if Pentax 67 lenses sell for 10% of new prices, i know that Hasselblad V series lenses (Zeiss) sell for 25 to 50% of their later list prices.

Sounds like for your mental comfort you should swap systems. And soon.

[BigMackCam]

Curious if Pentax 67 lenses sell for 10% of new prices, i know that Hasselblad V series lenses (Zeiss) sell for 25 to 50% of their later list prices.

According to biz, if Ricoh doesn't release a new Pentax full-frame camera, the D FA*50/1.4 and D FA*85/1.4 will be worth GBP £80 and £130 respectively. I think that tells us all we need to know...

[biz-engineer]

You are sounding extremely pesstimistic. Are you sure Nikon or even Sony are goung to exist in the future?

I have no idea if Nikon or Sony will still be around in the future. What I know however if what decisions have been made for Pentax by third party lens makers and camera review channels, and I believe those businesses know more than me about actual sales figures, market share etc.. If both Sony and Tamron stop making K mount lenses, it's a first hint. If my camera shop stop selling Pentax it's another hint. If camera market research reports (BCN, or CIPA) don't include Pentax in their charts anymore it's another hint. And if camera gear review channels don't mention Pentax anymore , that's one more hint. Why Tony & Chelsea N. don't mention Pentax anymore? Why DPR have neither reviewed the Pentax K3 III nor Pentax DFA21ltd? As long as I read Pentaxforums, it given me a sense that Pentax is still a strong brand, but as soon as I open my eyes wide outside of PF, I realize a lot of Pentax presence is just gone. I don't see Nikon, Sony and Canon not being reviewed any time soon.

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Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-11-2022 at 10:49 AM.

[gatorguy]

Well, it's better to sell at 50% of list price than sell lenses for 10% of the price because there is no new Pentax camera worth buying lenses for it. To keep lens prices up, it is even more important that Ricoh keep releasing cameras that are competitive, because if they don't the market for K mount lenses will drop very low. Of course, I can always be convinced to keep all my Pentax gear by folks who didn't buy new Pentax gear for the last 10 years (and even sold some of it), but it's unlikely to happen. Keeping or selling is a bet, if Ricoh manage to release another full frame camera before they go bust, then keeping the Pentax lenses bet will pay off. Now if Ricoh aren't able to make another FF camera , selling now is better financial move.

To me it makes no financial sense whatsoever.

Your K1's have been workable for you, and two cameras and 9 lenses are paid for. Purchasing the Nikon Z9 kit there in Austria as you mentioned earlier is a major expenditure with limited photographic benefit for the types of photos you enjoy taking. To do so here in the US it comes to approx. $11K. That's a LOT of money even for a professional. But in Austria you add your 20% VAT tax and you're spending at least the equivalent of $13K in US dollars or 11400 euros! Oh, and left with no quality backup camera should something go awry. Right now you do.

Assuming Pentax releases a K1III, which by all indications is exactly the plan (otherwise why the recent FF premium lens releases), you might have at most a 4000 euro expenditure to buy one, perhaps significantly less, and use the already bought and paid for premium glass you currently own, sell off the few you don't want, in an ecosystem you're familiar with.

For you perhaps you've already determined that throwing 7000 additional euros into a new system will pay for itself. It sounds like it. I can't see that happening but only you know if you could make more income while enjoying photography more by going Nikon. If you have the disposable money, and an expectation that your revenue will increase once you have the Z9, then based on everything you had to say in the past couple of weeks just go for it.

[biz-engineer]

our K1's have been workable for you, and two cameras and 9 lenses are paid for. Purchasing the Nikon Z9 kit there in Austria as you mentioned earlier is a major expenditure with limited photographic benefit for the types of photos you enjoy taking

You are right. Buying into another system is like buying an insurance. It cost extra money, and that cost is to be compared with the loss of Pentax K mount lens assets. I need to make some financial simulations to know what's more expensive. The problem with cameras is that every time we buy or sell we lose some money. Doesn't matter how I turn it, it's always expensive.

[BigMackCam]

What I know however if what decisions have been made for Pentax by third party lens makers and camera review channels, and I believe those businesses know more than me about actual sales figures, market share etc.. If both Sony and Tamron stop making K mount lenses, it's a first hint. If my camera shop stop selling Pentax it's another hint. If camera market research reports (BCN, or CIPA) don't include Pentax in their charts anymore it's another hint. And if camera gear review channels don't mention Pentax anymore , that's one more hint. Why Tony & Chelsea N. don't mention Pentax anymore? Why DPR have neither reviewed the Pentax K3 III nor Pentax DFA21ltd? As long as I read Pentaxforums, it given me a sense that Pentax is still a strong brand, but as soon as I open my eyes wide outside of PF, I realize a lot of Pentax presence is just gone. I don't see Nikon, Sony and Canon not being reviewed any time soon.

We believe what we want to believe, biz. I (want to) believe development of the Pentax full-frame line is as active as ever, and I'll wait for more than rumours and self-interpeted hints to guess or conclude otherwise. You clearly (want to) believe something different. That's fine, but the kind of FUD-peddaling in your most recent posts is disappointing, not to mention unhelpful to the brand as more-impressionable members might mistakenly believe it. It's all so eerily reminiscent of an ex-member from the Netherlands...

I'm stepping out of this bizarre thread now. Whatever brand you choose, good luck.

[biz-engineer]

You clearly (want to) believe something different

On the contrary I don't want to believe something. I'd collecting information for analysis. The best way Ricoh could confirm, would be to release a few new Pentax products soon, we should see something by April 1st this year ? Correct ?

[BigMackCam]

On the contrary I don't want to believe something. I'd collecting information for analysis. The best way Ricoh could confirm, would be to release a few new Pentax products soon, we should see something by April 1st this year ? Correct ?

Like I said, biz, I'm out of the thread. Good luck.

[ThorSanchez]

On the contrary I don't want to believe something. I'd collecting information for analysis. The best way Ricoh could confirm, would be to release a few new Pentax products soon, we should see something by April 1st this year ? Correct ?

If you're using a steady stream of new products aligned to your requirements as "information for analysis" I wonder why you ever bought into Pentax at all. Especially by the time the K1 came out and Ricoh had throttled back releases to a few a year total from lenses + cameras. For at least the past 6-8 years Ricoh's release schedule could be described as "whenever they feel like it, and probably a year later than any of us would prefer."

[MarkJerling]

On the contrary I don't want to believe something. I'd collecting information for analysis. The best way Ricoh could confirm, would be to release a few new Pentax products soon, we should see something by April 1st this year ? Correct ?

Ricoh will keep releasing products to their timeframe. Their timeframe and your timeframe is unlikely to be the same thing.

There is literally no evidence, anywhere, that they will stop developing and selling Pentax cameras, both FF and APS-C, and K-mount lenses to suit those cameras.
But, their development and production timelines may not be to your liking.

As I often have, I like to point out that they march to a different drum. And that they march to a different drum is fine with me. It may not be fine to you, but it's fine to many and as long as it's fine for those who they consider to be their core market, then all will be well in Pentax world.

Of course, if you're not happy with the way they do business then you could go to any of the other camera and lens makers, knowing full well that their timelines, budgets, etc. is also a closed book to the general consumer.

I have no doubt that we will, when Ricoh is ready, see a replacement for the K-1ii. In the mean time, every one of my Pentax and other k-mount lenses continue to work as well as the day they were bought and continues to provide me with enjoyment and perfectly usable photos.

I fail to see how 60Mp or 80Mp or 120Mp or 17 gazillion Mp will make any difference. Most (read near all) of us simply do not print billboard size and provided what i shoot looks OK on a 4k screen, I'm happy.

But as to "collecting information for analysis". Collecting information and collecting opinions is not the same thing.
Good luck in your continued search for the "perfect" camera and lens system.

[StiffLegged]

Bad news. Whichever camera you buy now, or whichever you keep, there will be another along sooner or later which will do more. 8K video and 20fps full-size raw shooting? Next one will do 8K 12-bit 8:4:4 t-log 120p video and 200fps of uncompressed 65 megapixel raws. Simultaneously. Just the thing for shooting the new trend of high-speed weddings–: "Dearlybeloveddoyousolemnlypromiseyoumaykissthebride. Next..."

I seriously expect moving to another highly expensive system will only result in more and different complaints of how the new kit doesn't suit biz's needs exactly.

[BigMackCam]

Good luck in your continued search for the "perfect" camera and lens system.

Bad news. Whichever camera you buy now, or whichever you keep, there will be another along sooner or later which will do more...

... I seriously expect moving to another highly expensive system will only result in more and different complaints of how the new kit doesn't suit biz's needs exactly.

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved any further in this thread, because there's no convincing someone who's mind is more-or-less made up - as I believe is the case here (even if they believe they're open-minded to alternative evidence). However...

There is absolutely no way that a much-higher-spec'd, different-brand system with fewer but equivalent-or-better-performing lenses to cover the same range can be bought without significant additional investment when the individual already owns the lower-spec'd camera - because they have to dispose of the latter and any lenses at considerable loss from the original investment. Given that, the OP's choices are, IMHO, pretty simple - (1) stay with the existing system at zero additional cost, accepting its apparent limitations, and quell any concerns over obsolescence with the reasonable assumption that there may be a relatively minor drop in equipment value if it should happen (as evidence from other obsolete systems shows); or (2) accept that the newer, higher-spec (and probably different brand) gear is going to involve considerable additional investment. In the latter case, the additional investment needs to be weighed against the realisable benefit in enjoyment / satisfaction and/or - if relevant - realistic (rather than imagined) increase to income and profit.

Right, that's it - I really am going to step out now Cheers, all...

[cls]

(1) stay with the existing system, accepting its apparent limitations, and subdue concerns over obsolescence with the reasonable assumption that there may be a relatively minor drop in equipment value if it should happen; or (2) accept that the newer, higher-spec (and probably different brand) gear is going to involve considerable additional investment. In the latter case, the additional investment needs to be weighed up against the realisable benefit in enjoyment / satisfaction and, if relevant, actual income and profit.

Precisely the calculation I just made. It's all compromises, and seeing some of the images coming from some Pentax users [edited to clarify - there are some stunning and impressive photos from users using old gear], for me, the gap between is made up by skill. The decision making process was agonizing, however, so I empathize greatly.

[texandrews]

of the cameras they already have I think is vanishingly small. Just a handful in these forums as far as I can see, and I'm not one of them! And yet I'm actually shooting professionally, and my shots in this regard are very solid. Not Getty, Met, or National Gallery level for sculpture, but solid for publication. 30+ of my images are in the new catalog for my museum.

For my personal work it's less a matter of the pure technical matters than it is how what I've done with the technical matters aligns to the vision I have for the final image and how that works into the sum total of my work as an artist.


I'm reading a lot of things about needs---and I'm not singling anyone out here, because I mean here and elsewhere---and I don't actually think these are needs; they are wants. And wants can be quite ephemeral/whimsical/frivolous and/or detached from needs. I think it's quite odd to make assumptions or project success or failure for a manufacturer based on personal wants.