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12-11-2008, 11:50 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
That's life with modern electronic devices. None of the camera manufacturers bodies hold their value after a new model comes out.
When I bought my *istD, I spent somewhat over Can$3K for the camera, grip, kit lens and a couple of sets of rechargable batteries.
Now you can't give them away.
Thats the way it is. Get over it.

.
I just sold my last istD for $200.00, and i payed about $1300 at Blacks for one of the last ones available.

Dave

12-11-2008, 11:56 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mechan1k Quote
hee hee ... kind like petrol at the moment ... The price of petrol as dropped so much recently ... but i don't hear many people complain about that though

I filled up my wife's car at $3/gallon, but she never drives it, so I feel ripped off that there's $3 gas sitting in the tank when I could have kept it empty until now and filled it at $1.60/gallon!!

Seriously, though, all mid-level bodies depreciate like this. Look at the Nikon D80 and Canon 40D now.

I bought my first K20D for $1200, bought the replacement 8 months later (new) for $750. I'm just happy I didn't have to pay another $1000+ for it again.



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12-11-2008, 12:09 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Wheatfield... if you have an istD you want to give away I will gladly take it off your hands. I'll even pay the postage. I want a body to convert to IR!
And I've been wondering if I should buy one: only Pentax DSLR with full TTL functionality...
12-11-2008, 12:14 PM   #34
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I am not sure what the original poster is complaining for?

I purchased my K20D for $1200 (on sale!!) about six months ago. Now the darn thing is selling for $900.00 (regular price).

But any early adopter in technology is going to pay more. This is nothing compared to early adopters of IPODs or the IPHONE 3G. I know people who paid $600 for the IPHONE 3G and a few months later, it is selling for $199.00. That is the way it is! Accept it!

On the other hand, I purchased my Pentax MZ-S in 2000 for about $1200.00 (on sale!) and just purchased a used MZ-S (body only) for $600.00 on eBay.

Perhaps, if the original poster doesn't wish to lose so much money due to depreciation, he should only buy the older non-digital cameras. The MZ-S has lost little to no value in the past two years.

Doug

12-11-2008, 12:16 PM   #35
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I bought my first Canon DSLR (the D30) in 2000 and paid something like $2,500 including kit and accessories.

I recently gave it away and put down $450 on a used K10D; looking back, it's probably the best $2,500 I've spent considering I got nearly 8 years of use out of it!
12-11-2008, 12:48 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by legacyb4 Quote
I bought my first Canon DSLR (the D30) in 2000 and paid something like $2,500 including kit and accessories.

I recently gave it away and put down $450 on a used K10D; looking back, it's probably the best $2,500 I've spent considering I got nearly 8 years of use out of it!
I bought a 1940ish Kodak Brownie at a yard sale for a dollar, put it on Ebay with a starting bid of 99 cents, Sold for $40.00 It did help to have the original box and instructions. Maybe someday these "older" cams will be sought after by collectors. I still love my 2000 Olympus C-2100 UZ and wouldn't sell it for anything, it's a classic IMHO.
12-11-2008, 12:48 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
And I've been wondering if I should buy one: only Pentax DSLR with full TTL functionality...
DS had regular TTL (pretty sure) as well, not sure what you mean by full functionality though...
12-11-2008, 01:14 PM   #38
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Consumption society v.s. the environmental aspect of Takumar quality

This stupid thread is getting interesting.

I have a LX (1980) that did not have the sticking mirror until a few weeks ago (looking for somewhere to send it for service), it worked fine until then. My Super A and Program A works perfect (1983 and 84). And I still use these cameras for film. I have lenses from the 60's, 70' and 80's that work just as fine as when they were new. The funny thing is that that several of the lenses and the LX would still sell for a good price, some even for more than when they were manufactured.
My Commodore VIC 20 computer from the 80's (20kBytes memory if I remember correctly) still works (!!!), tested last year. The tape recorder (!) loads simple games like the worm which has been stored on the type of tape cassets that we used in the 80's to record music on and make our own mix-tapes (didn't think this sort of magnetic memory should last that long). My sony stereo from mid 80's still work (have had to fix it some times).

But my MZ-5 has developed the problem with uncomplete film forward (its most common error I think) twice and been serviced, first time after just two years. My *istDS has got crazy exposures (where only M and Tv give reliable results) and are on its way for a fix, and it is only a few years old. The modern stereo we bought for the kitchen two years ago is already working really bad, quite modern digitalized washing machine got serious problems after only two years (of course some month after the warranty gone out).
And computers...don't talk about it. My Unix machines in the 90's used to last for 4-5 years. Now no one want stationary computers of any sort. Laptops, well I must be buying 10-20 every year. Our Ph.D. students used to be happy with a Laptop for the 4 years it is supposed to take to write a Ph.D. thesis, but now they often wants a new after 2 years, and honestly, I seams to be changing laptop also every 2nd year nowadays. It appears to be a combination of rather crappy products and endlessly increasing features which make us want new computers even before the old are really used to its end. If you really carry the laptop with you everywhere it is beginning to fall apart after two years, and with the operation system you usually get the first small problems within half a year. On the other hand, in in a few years everything on the lap top except the weight is doubled and the new prices are just going down down. DSLR market behaves much the same, and one can see all these posts and threads here were people who appears to have had a K10D for a year or a K20D for half a year are in sort of panic that it is getting old ("when will Pentax release the K3D or K30D or whatever, I can't wait any longer!!!"). Not strange that 2nd hand prices on these products are low!

I get some sort of feeling that after the mid 90's build quality went down on all sorts of consumer electronics from cameras and computers to stereos and washing machines. At the same time, they became too complex, the electronics too integrated for myself to fix them.
If I have the LX fixed now and take care of it, I would not be surprised if I'm still using it 20 years from now, and for my old manual lenses I think the odds are even better, but will I be able to use the K20D or *istDS 20 years from now, or the digital autofocus lenses?

And what about mobile phones. Does anyone really need 3G and video-calls, or TV in the mobile? I've read recently that there are more than 20 million old mobile phones in peoples closets only in Sweden (with a 9 million population), not counting that the parents old phones are first usually inherited by the kids.

Honestly, look at the increasing stress of mankind on this planet and the rapid consumption of all sorts of natural resources for short term consumption followed by mountains of garbage and rivers of waste.
We cannot afford (not talking $$$ now) this sort of consumption for ever. I know a lot of people owe their jobs and perhaps the whole western economy is based on this consumption, but there will be worse problems than this in the end. We do not need another camera/phone/laptop/wide screen TV/... that last for just a few years! We need more Takumar lenses!!! Built to be used for a generation or more. We must learn to build things in that way again!

(sorry for drifting away from the topic)

12-11-2008, 01:33 PM   #39
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Why so worried? Just take your camera, go outside and take some nice pictures
12-11-2008, 01:43 PM   #40
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The drop in resale value is unfortunate, but unavoidable. This is particularly true when the price of a new K20D is now under $750 with some vendors.

The real tragedy (cue the dramatic, dark music) is this:

What you bought, regardless of its brand name, cost, robust build, and advanced features, is a throwaway item. Unlike the precision-made mechanical cameras of the past, your digital camera is engineered to fail catastrophically after a certain number of exposures and will not be repairable for less than the price of a new replacement. Every shutter release brings that day closer.

This is true regardless of how much money you have spent on FF or APS-C lenses or what accessories you have purchased. It is as sure as death and taxes. The most you can hope for is backward compatibility with future cameras.

Steve

(BTW...interested in knowing an item with an even worse resale value? Try to sell a used diamond engagement ring...worth about 25-30 cents on the dollar...)
12-11-2008, 01:58 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
This stupid thread is getting interesting.
Now that was funny!
12-11-2008, 04:07 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Unlike the precision-made mechanical cameras of the past, your digital camera is engineered to fail catastrophically after a certain number of exposures and will not be repairable for less than the price of a new replacement. Every shutter release brings that day closer.
That's a big overdramatic, don't you think. It's not really a vast conspiracy - with most products there is a target lifespan, but this is mostly due to controlling unit cost. You might be happy to pay more for a camera which will last longer, but how many others will?

With regards to repair, remember that most modern electronics are manufactured on partially, or fully automated production lines, with inventory delivered on a just in time basis.

To support servicing requires a stock of spare parts, sitting there, costing money while they wait to be useful. It also requires the time of a skilled human to repair the item. Given how aggressively manufacturing costs are minimised, is it really surprising that repair isn't economical for most of these items?

To give a parallel example, my day job is as a software developer (specialised business software). Generally, whenever any performance issues crop up, it is better value to simply buy faster hardware than it is to look at altering the software. Crazy? Yes, but the market wants the best return on investment, and that is how it is achieved.

(BTW...interested in knowing an item with an even worse resale value? Try to sell a used diamond engagement ring...worth about 25-30 cents on the dollar...) [/QUOTE]

Diamonds are basically the biggest scam on the planet. Until very recently, they were a market controlled by a small cartel who controlled the supply to give the illusion of scarcity...
12-11-2008, 04:12 PM   #43
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Basic question

Are you a "Poser" or "Photographer"?
12-11-2008, 04:52 PM   #44
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OK, now for some good news. There is one electronic device that has actually went up in value over the years. A friend of mine his hobby is fixing old dial up phones. Just to let you know these old phones that your could buy for a couple of bucks when push button came out are now worth 100 % and more times there value depending on what make.
Out side of this I never heard of any electronic device going up in value.
12-11-2008, 05:13 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
If I have the LX fixed now and take care of it, I would not be surprised if I'm still using it 20 years from now, and for my old manual lenses I think the odds are even better, but will I be able to use the K20D or *istDS 20 years from now, or the digital autofocus lenses?
How many photographs do you have on your LX, how many on your K20D? I personally rolled over the counter at about eight months. I would be surprised if a film camera had that many shots run through it in thirty years.
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