Now we have a K-3 iii, will there be a "K-90" i.e. a new entry level body?

OrdinaryOwl-1866 · 03-07-2022, 04:29 AM

This is something I'd be very interested in. I have a K-3 and love the look of some of the new tech in the mark 3 but can't justify a full upgrade. Unfortunately, hearing some of the whispers coming out of Ricoh, I'm not sure they're interested in trying for an entry market anymore but it would be fun to get just one more.

What do others think about this?

**aslyfox** · 03-07-2022, 05:27 AM - **1 Like**

well the K 70 was introduced 2016

new isn't enough, it must be improved as well

the questions I have:

how expensive would it be to introduce some of the improvements of the K 3 III [ 2021 ] or KP [ 2017 ] into a new model and the resulting price ?

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-cameras-compared/?c1=Pentax+K-3+I...c3=Pentax+K-70

and do you then retire the K 70 ?

is there more of a market for a new and improved entry level than for the older model ?

**ismaelg** · 03-07-2022, 05:38 AM - **1 Like**

Hello,

I'm not an expert in this topic, but I would guess a full frame update (K1-III?) will be next in the pipeline. That's probably where the limited resources are now.

Thanks,
Ismael

pschlute · 03-07-2022, 05:51 AM

I think the problem with entry-level models, and this applies to many products like cars too is that unless the manufacturer can shift huge amounts of them, they are not a winner financially.

It basically costs very little more to produce a top end model like the K3 III as it does to produce a K70/KP or whatever replacement may be envisaged. But the entry level model will sell for a significant amount less.

I remember in the 1970's Honda introduced a 400cc 4 cylinder motorbike as a cheaper alternative to the classic 750cc. They sold like hotcakes all over the world and everyone loved them....except the accountants at Honda. Production stopped after only three years.

**aslyfox** · 03-07-2022, 06:32 AM

one factor regarding a new " entry " level camera

how important is it to lock new photographers into the " pentax " system - the K mount lenses

in order to convince them to move on to more expensive camera bodies

**ramseybuckeye** · 03-07-2022, 06:37 AM

In the past they usually followed up new flagships with midrange and/or entry level models. Not as much R & D goes into them because they have the common technology, but design is different. Now with the matket even tighter, and the boutique approach for the Japanese market, I’m not as optimistic that they will. I feel it may just produce variants, which may lead the direction of “lesser” models. I think it all depends on their market research and interchangeability of components, I worked for a company that had several variants of a base product, and low production. But we had huge margins, and that can make a big difference.

texandrews · 03-07-2022, 06:51 AM - **3 Likes**

I would say, yes, there will be a new entry level camera. But bear in mind that entry level no longer means what it used to mean, a la cheesy Rebels. Now entry level cameras will be what were once mid-range.

jslifoaw · 03-07-2022, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by texandrews

I would say, yes, there will be a new entry level camera. But bear in mind that entry level no longer means what it used to mean, a la cheesy Rebels. Now entry level cameras will be what were once mid-range.

If we re-base our expectations of entry level pricing back to earlier in the DSLR age, our money goes a long way and should buy something akin to "mid range" as you've indicated.

I thought the *ist DS for US$800 was a steal back in 2005 after saving for one to stay with Pentax when going digital. That's roughly $1100-1200 in today's money which almost gets you a Nikon Z5 or Canon EOS R.

What bought an *ist D when it was still current could get you a K-1 II or K-3 III today in real terms.

I believe the first Canon Digital Rebel's claim to fame was cracking the $1000 barrier (downwards of course). This was when entry level P&S was $200-300, and many were in the $500+ range up to $1000.

The used market will be a good bet for the lower end of the price range (e.g. below $1000) since there are so many excellent used cameras available that would not have been the case 10+ years ago.

texandrews · 03-07-2022, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by jslifoaw

The used market will be a good bet for the lower end of the price range (e.g. below $1000) since there are so many excellent used cameras available that would not have been the case 10+ years ago.

Yes, the used market for digital is now a much more viable option than it was even 5 years ago, since technology has matured. And that possibly wipes out most of the previous entry level and low price new camera market.

**UncleVanya** · 03-07-2022, 08:04 AM

I wonder if the bespoke production options in Japan will give Pentax ideas about models that are desired.

Also as Chip shortages exist right more it’s hard to expect new models to have sufficient price reductions from the high end.

Sidney Porter · 03-07-2022, 08:16 AM

As far as entry level. Pentax cannot compete on price. You can get a canon t7 with the 18-55 and 50-300 for $600.

The k70 seems to have more features (weather sealing being the most obvious). It is also at a higher price point. The challenges is getting the message to the consumer that there is value.

AfterPentax Mark II · 03-07-2022, 08:38 AM - **1 Like**

They will keep on developing APS-C flagships. They want to be a niche player DSLR company, so you produce niche camera's. No entry level can be called being niche, nice, yes, not niche.

**Papa_Joe** · 03-07-2022, 09:52 AM

I really miss a "popcorn" smiley.

**mlag** · 03-07-2022, 11:12 AM

Checking the descriptions at launch, the K70 at 700 $ was regarded as midrange and compared to the K3II at 1100$ ....

So considering the current price of the K3-III around 2000$, the updated successor of the K70 could be around 1200-1400$ ?

Cheaper budget cameras might be indeed too much in competition with smartphones, pocket and bridge cameras, while a mid range DSLR might still attract the the more advanced enthusiast community.

texandrews · 03-07-2022, 12:10 PM - **4 Likes**

I think the main point is: What is the advantage now---in 2022---and beyond for manufacturer's to produce inexpensive, entry level cameras that have insignificant profit margins? IIRC, when the trend started (by other manufacturers) to eliminate these models, sales went down---of course---but profits went up. I would think that would be even more true today.

How many here are looking for an entry level model? With phones as capable as they are today, much better than P&S cameras before (later models excepted), the people making the jump to an ILC need more of what an ILC brings to the table, and that's going to start with mid range cameras. The rest of us I don't think are wanting to move backwards to entry level models.

03-07-2022, 04:29 AM	#1
OrdinaryOwl-1866 New Member Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: Brighton Posts: 8	Now we have a K-3 iii, will there be a "K-90" i.e. a new entry level body? This is something I'd be very interested in. I have a K-3 and love the look of some of the new tech in the mark 3 but can't justify a full upgrade. Unfortunately, hearing some of the whispers coming out of Ricoh, I'm not sure they're interested in trying for an entry market anymore but it would be fun to get just one more. What do others think about this?

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03-07-2022, 05:27 AM - 1 Like	#2
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	well the K 70 was introduced 2016 new isn't enough, it must be improved as well the questions I have: how expensive would it be to introduce some of the improvements of the K 3 III [ 2021 ] or KP [ 2017 ] into a new model and the resulting price ? https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-cameras-compared/?c1=Pentax+K-3+I...c3=Pentax+K-70 and do you then retire the K 70 ? is there more of a market for a new and improved entry level than for the older model ?

03-07-2022, 05:38 AM - 1 Like	#3
ismaelg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Puerto Rico Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,681	Hello, I'm not an expert in this topic, but I would guess a full frame update (K1-III?) will be next in the pipeline. That's probably where the limited resources are now. Thanks, Ismael

03-07-2022, 05:51 AM	#4
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	I think the problem with entry-level models, and this applies to many products like cars too is that unless the manufacturer can shift huge amounts of them, they are not a winner financially. It basically costs very little more to produce a top end model like the K3 III as it does to produce a K70/KP or whatever replacement may be envisaged. But the entry level model will sell for a significant amount less. I remember in the 1970's Honda introduced a 400cc 4 cylinder motorbike as a cheaper alternative to the classic 750cc. They sold like hotcakes all over the world and everyone loved them....except the accountants at Honda. Production stopped after only three years.

03-07-2022, 06:32 AM	#5
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	one factor regarding a new " entry " level camera how important is it to lock new photographers into the " pentax " system - the K mount lenses in order to convince them to move on to more expensive camera bodies

03-07-2022, 06:37 AM	#6
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,292	In the past they usually followed up new flagships with midrange and/or entry level models. Not as much R & D goes into them because they have the common technology, but design is different. Now with the matket even tighter, and the boutique approach for the Japanese market, I’m not as optimistic that they will. I feel it may just produce variants, which may lead the direction of “lesser” models. I think it all depends on their market research and interchangeability of components, I worked for a company that had several variants of a base product, and low production. But we had huge margins, and that can make a big difference.

03-07-2022, 06:51 AM - 3 Likes	#7
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,392	I would say, yes, there will be a new entry level camera. But bear in mind that entry level no longer means what it used to mean, a la cheesy Rebels. Now entry level cameras will be what were once mid-range.

03-07-2022, 07:18 AM	#8
jslifoaw Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto/Victoria Posts: 460	Originally posted by texandrews I would say, yes, there will be a new entry level camera. But bear in mind that entry level no longer means what it used to mean, a la cheesy Rebels. Now entry level cameras will be what were once mid-range. If we re-base our expectations of entry level pricing back to earlier in the DSLR age, our money goes a long way and should buy something akin to "mid range" as you've indicated. I thought the ist DS for US$800 was a steal back in 2005 after saving for one to stay with Pentax when going digital. That's roughly $1100-1200 in today's money which almost gets you a Nikon Z5 or Canon EOS R. What bought an ist D when it was still current could get you a K-1 II or K-3 III today in real terms. I believe the first Canon Digital Rebel's claim to fame was cracking the $1000 barrier (downwards of course). This was when entry level P&S was $200-300, and many were in the $500+ range up to $1000. The used market will be a good bet for the lower end of the price range (e.g. below $1000) since there are so many excellent used cameras available that would not have been the case 10+ years ago.

03-07-2022, 08:04 AM	#9
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,392	Originally posted by jslifoaw The used market will be a good bet for the lower end of the price range (e.g. below $1000) since there are so many excellent used cameras available that would not have been the case 10+ years ago. Yes, the used market for digital is now a much more viable option than it was even 5 years ago, since technology has matured. And that possibly wipes out most of the previous entry level and low price new camera market.

03-07-2022, 08:04 AM	#10
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	I wonder if the bespoke production options in Japan will give Pentax ideas about models that are desired. Also as Chip shortages exist right more it’s hard to expect new models to have sufficient price reductions from the high end.

03-07-2022, 08:16 AM	#11
Sidney Porter Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Columbus Ohio USA Posts: 353	As far as entry level. Pentax cannot compete on price. You can get a canon t7 with the 18-55 and 50-300 for $600. The k70 seems to have more features (weather sealing being the most obvious). It is also at a higher price point. The challenges is getting the message to the consumer that there is value.

03-07-2022, 08:38 AM - 1 Like	#12
AfterPentax Mark II Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 1,462	They will keep on developing APS-C flagships. They want to be a niche player DSLR company, so you produce niche camera's. No entry level can be called being niche, nice, yes, not niche.

03-07-2022, 09:52 AM	#13
Papa_Joe Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: SW Bavaria Posts: 562	I really miss a "popcorn" smiley.

03-07-2022, 11:12 AM	#14
mlag Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: Zuiderkempen - Grote Netewoud - Belgium Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,399	Checking the descriptions at launch, the K70 at 700 $ was regarded as midrange and compared to the K3II at 1100$ .... So considering the current price of the K3-III around 2000$, the updated successor of the K70 could be around 1200-1400$ ? Cheaper budget cameras might be indeed too much in competition with smartphones, pocket and bridge cameras, while a mid range DSLR might still attract the the more advanced enthusiast community.

03-07-2022, 12:10 PM - 4 Likes	#15
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,392	I think the main point is: What is the advantage now---in 2022---and beyond for manufacturer's to produce inexpensive, entry level cameras that have insignificant profit margins? IIRC, when the trend started (by other manufacturers) to eliminate these models, sales went down---of course---but profits went up. I would think that would be even more true today. How many here are looking for an entry level model? With phones as capable as they are today, much better than P&S cameras before (later models excepted), the people making the jump to an ILC need more of what an ILC brings to the table, and that's going to start with mid range cameras. The rest of us I don't think are wanting to move backwards to entry level models.