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12-14-2008, 10:10 PM   #1
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An interesting debate I started

Canon or Pentax? - Canon Digital Photography Forums

So far we've seen that Canon users believe that they're better than anything else out there (I can say this because I'm currently one who is going to switch to Pentax), and that they can't get very many facts right about other brands.

12-14-2008, 10:26 PM   #2
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AF Speed is the only disadvantage of Pentax I think compared to C and N.. Have you bought your Pentax gear already?
12-14-2008, 10:40 PM   #3
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It's hard to believe that given enough time, AF speed is something Pentax will eventually address. Hopefully with the next K30D.
12-14-2008, 11:35 PM   #4
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Most of the comments about AF are based on K10D experience. By most accounts, the K20D and K200D have improved AF, and the K2000D even better still. They seem to be making progress.

12-14-2008, 11:38 PM   #5
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I read through the thread you linked to, and I have to say I think those that responded to you were pretty right on. I didn't get the sense they bashed Pentax at all, they just don't count older, MF-only lenses as "good" options. That says to me that they are AF users, but not ignorant of Pentax advantages. Nor did they seem to have any kind of superiority complex. Most people in these forums will agree that for certain applications, Pentax is behind Canon and Nikon (low-light AF, sports, etc.). That doesn't mean those aspects are non-existent or terrible with Pentax, just behind. I don't need those advantages, so Pentax is perfect for me (and many others who shoot a variety of things other than sports, low-light events, etc). Their advice seemed to jibe with this. As far as modern, AF lenses, Pentax is behind, but definitely getting up to speed in this area.

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12-15-2008, 12:30 AM   #6
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Yes, I've noticed in that thread more than ones I've recently posted in that the discussions have been more civil and not just plain bashing. Usually I get nothing but the L lens complex people who say that no other brand equals the optics of Pentax.

"you could pick up an EF-K mount adaptor and proceed with your 30D. It has Av too, you know"

Am I the only one who is highly offended about this line, though?
12-15-2008, 01:36 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by sflights Quote
Yes, I've noticed in that thread more than ones I've recently posted in that the discussions have been more civil and not just plain bashing. Usually I get nothing but the L lens complex people who say that no other brand equals the optics of Pentax.

"you could pick up an EF-K mount adaptor and proceed with your 30D. It has Av too, you know"

Am I the only one who is highly offended about this line, though?
I read the thread you put up and thought it was pretty fair overall.

The poster you quoted above seemed to put that out there as a matter of fact statement, I don't think he was trying to be offensive. I knew you could use M42 but wasn't aware that you could use K mounts on Canon.

Canon and Nikon offer excellent cameras and systems. We've all seen the results from the D700; I've personally borrowed my friend's 5D and 1dmk3 with L glass on several occasions and love it. Is it pricey? Yes. But they offer much more autofocus glass than Pentax.

But it seems that in your situation you shoot landscape where AF is not necessarily beneficial; so the typical Pentax benefits (MF primes without adapters, in body IS, excellent IQ at low ISO's) apparently match your needs well.

I find the dSLR debate interesting; for perspective, when I learned photography in school it was hot stuff to have autofocus (and we were all ditching Tri-X for Tmax due to finer grain). We've come a long way in 15 years...
12-15-2008, 05:33 AM   #8
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I have never used a C or N camera, however, I use K10D primarily for motocross race photos. If the AF was as slow as some may believe, I would not be getting any good shots. I can feel and see the camera focus as I am following a rider thru a shot sequence. I guess if its so slow, how good will my photos turn out if its a faster AF

12-15-2008, 05:52 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by inuafrj Quote
AF Speed is the only disadvantage of Pentax I think compared to C and N.. Have you bought your Pentax gear already?
never realised i had a slow autofocus speed problem, may be a little slow in extreamly low light, but in daylight shots always found to be lightning fast,

Dave
12-15-2008, 05:53 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by sflights Quote
"you could pick up an EF-K mount adaptor and proceed with your 30D. It has Av too, you know"

Am I the only one who is highly offended about this line, though?
It isn't as though they questioned your mother's virtue or something. On the list of things to get even mildly offended about, that doesn't make the cut.

Good Lord......why people get worked up about what brand of camera others choose to use will forever be beyond my comprehension.
12-15-2008, 10:52 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
I didn't get the sense they bashed Pentax at all, they just don't count older, MF-only lenses as "good" options. That says to me that they are AF users, but not ignorant of Pentax advantages.
I agree, but would also point out another bias - the idea that having *more* AF lenses in production makes Canon "better". Of course, I'm no saying having fewer is better either. But it's really going to come down to who has the lenses you actually want, and how they compare in price and quality.

In particular, I know Canon & Nikon have a larger variety of basic general purpose wide to telephoto zooms than Pentax does. But really, does anyone need more than one of these? If Pentax has the one that covers the range you've decided you want for a basic walkaround zoom as the best comparomise between price, quality, size, and focal length range, great! And in that case, not having as many *other* versions of a wide-to-telephoto zoom should hardly count against Pentax.

Also, while it might be technically true to say that older Pentax lenses don't have coatings to help *specifically* with digital, this glosses over the fact that the basic SMC coating Pentax has used for years is actually very, very good already, even without any specific "digital" tweaks.

Still, again, I agree with your general characterization - those were mostly quite reasonable responses from people who naturally had a somewhat different bias than we tend to over here.
12-15-2008, 11:14 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by mudnmoto Quote
I have never used a C or N camera, however, I use K10D primarily for motocross race photos. If the AF was as slow as some may believe, I would not be getting any good shots. I can feel and see the camera focus as I am following a rider thru a shot sequence. I guess if its so slow, how good will my photos turn out if its a faster AF
QuoteOriginally posted by dafiryde Quote
never realised i had a slow autofocus speed problem, may be a little slow in extreamly low light, but in daylight shots always found to be lightning fast

I know neither of you were responding directly to me, but I want to be clear that I don't consider Pentax's AF to be atrocious, or even bad, just not as speedy as Nikon or Canon. My K10D and K-m work just fine for me, but a friend of mine was given a D300 for an early Xmas gift and I got to play around with it for an hour last weekend. Granted, it's classed a bit above the K10/20, but the speed difference was noticeable. It didn't "blow me away," but it was there.

And Marc, I agree with you, you only need so much glass. The DA Ltds. will keep me with Pentax for travel (what I do mostly), and I don't feel that the other companies offer an equivalent setup. The one thing I'd really like would be a consumer-speed standard zoom with weather-sealing (like the 17-70 sealed, or a 16-85, or an 18-105). I feel like I'm not fully using the weather-sealed capability of my K10D because I own zero sealed lenses!

Todd
12-15-2008, 12:07 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
The one thing I'd really like would be a consumer-speed standard zoom with weather-sealing (like the 17-70 sealed, or a 16-85, or an 18-105). I feel like I'm not fully using the weather-sealed capability of my K10D because I own zero sealed lenses!
I agree with this, Pentax sort of dropped the ball on this one. They could have really pushed the weather sealing feature if they offered a sealed consumer zoom that was less than $400, or better yet offered as a reasonably priced kit.
12-15-2008, 12:21 PM   #14
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Well, everyone else is speculating the last couple of weeks. I'll take my shot: The statement in that translated memo that they lacked a "plan" and are going to be known as rugged and outdoor as a brand might lead to this kind of lens.

Honestly, I would take reduced IQ for less-expensive weather-sealed lenses. The amount of time I use the camera in dusty/rainy/humid conditions is a low percentage of my overall usage. If I had one fairly all-purpose lens that was sealed so I could pop it on when the weather turned bad, I'd be happy. At least one consumer-grade/priced weather-sealed lens could draw more people into the system.
12-15-2008, 12:51 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
Good Lord......why people get worked up about what brand of camera others choose to use will forever be beyond my comprehension.
I agree completely, but coming from someone whose signature reads "If Jesus had a camera he would use Takumars", I would think passionate brand loyalty would not be such a foreign concept
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