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03-14-2007, 11:16 AM   #1
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K10d vs. new Olympus E-510

The k10d is a marvelous camera that has incredible features for the price: shake reduction, dust reduction and weather sealing.

Olympus just recently announced the new E-510 and packed it with a nice set of features as well: image stabilization (basically shake reduction), dust reduction (in the current generation of cameras, Olympus came out on top with this feature, with the pentax k10d right behind and the canon xti which has a dust reduction system that many say is better off without), and a new live MOS sensor (that allows live previewing through the LCD).

The E-510 is priced at $999 MSRP with a 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 and 40-150mm F4.0-5.6 Zuiko Digital Lens.

Does the k10d have serious competition around the corner or do you think the E-510 will give the k10d a good run for it's money?

(Of course we won't know for sure until the usual reviewers/critics get the camera in hand and comment on the specifics, but felt that it'd be fun to ask )

03-14-2007, 11:20 AM   #2
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Tough call. 4/3 sensor was known to be a noise monster by DPR's standards (exception: the 5MP E-1) but I've seen the older E300 take some very decent shots. An extra 2 MP crammed into this sensor would require a lot more noise reduction and you may lose more detail.

I'm happy with my K100D for now. We'll see what Pentax comes up with next year.
03-14-2007, 11:55 AM   #3
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No contest

QuoteOriginally posted by USCdeacon Quote
Does the k10d have serious competition around the corner or do you think the E-510 will give the k10d a good run for it's money?
These are two very different sensor systems - 4/3 and APS-C. K10D and E-510 look similar speced or comparable only on paper, imo. Oly's 4/3 has a noticeably smaller 2x crop sensor and thus imaging circle. On a positive side this means in general smaller and faster lens and bodies. But the downsides are higher sensor noise (smaller sensor), dimmer VF and less play with DOF (smaller imaging circle). Latter makes 4/3 lens f2.8 not exactly same as f2.8 on a ASP-C (not speaking of FF) lens.

When you look at bodies the E-510 main claims of fame are live preview which's an awesome feature for macro and waist/ground level framing and proven hypersonic dust removal. It has to be seen if Oly's in-body stabilization is any better than SR. Oly's body is also lighter and smaller which could be plus or minus depending upon personal preferences. Otherwise K10D beats E501 to the punch - 11 AF points vs just 3, weather-sealed body, much richer and direct control, much brighter and bigger VF.

My take is that people migrating and more used to digicam virtues (framing via LCD, wide DOF, small size, menu controls, fast zooms with huge focal length, more tolerance for noise) will feel right at home with E510 more than with K10D. For me personally 4/3 system is a non-starter mainly for reasons of DOF, noise and inferior OVF though I would've liked to have a live view for certain shots but not as a substitution for a bright and big OVF as a main framing device.
03-14-2007, 01:33 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by USCdeacon Quote
Does the k10d have serious competition around the corner or do you think the E-510 will give the k10d a good run for it's money?

(Of course we won't know for sure until the usual reviewers/critics get the camera in hand and comment on the specifics, but felt that it'd be fun to ask )
I've seen a dozen or so really good images from previous Olympus models and they were good, but many many many images taken on one of the models a person I met had shown me displayed a lot of varience in image noise in the same ISO, white balance issues and just lack of luster that I personally see with my own K10D and ist Dl.

I think is Olympus can fix same of their major issues (ISO mostly) we might have a cempetitor, but I feel that with the history pentax has a well informed person really wont choose the olympus over the K10D unless they so feel that "Live View" is more important that many other key features.

03-14-2007, 04:58 PM   #5
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really good discussion so far

the live preview is not really a big feature for me - I think it takes away from the SLR experience. Didn't know that much about the higher ISO with the 4/3's system - good to know!
03-14-2007, 05:20 PM   #6
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all depends on the person really. I think the olympus would cater more to the new school type, more tech than camera, etc, etc, as opposed to Pentax, which really will attract more old school type photographer.

thats what I think anyway. Pentax has YEARS of experience behind them, and a truck load of lenses to boot.
03-14-2007, 05:32 PM   #7
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The main plusses for the Oly are small size and live view, the minuses are higher noise (about 2/3 to 1 stop) and dimmer viewfinder. The Olympus samples I have looked at exhibited shadow noise even at ISO 200, although their color rendering and tonal mapping is quite good.

Liveview for me is not a issue as I didn't like using it when I had a P&S camera (an Oly 5060)
03-14-2007, 06:28 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by USCdeacon Quote
Didn't know that much about the higher ISO with the 4/3's system - good to know!
The ISO noise on the Oly system is between 1 and 2 stops worse then an equivalent APS-C sensor, for example, the E510, compared to the K10D will deliver similar noise at 400 ISO as we get a 800 ISO (Noise reduction and detail smearing are a different issue all together).

03-14-2007, 08:05 PM   #9
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Feature wise and price wise, the E-510 must win. However, it is a Half Frame camera which means that with the same f-stop, say, f/5.6, it essentially produces DoF of f/11 for the same FoV, i.e., equivalent 35mm / 135 focal.

Noisewise, if Oly can make faster lenses, which eventually produces the same DoF and a lower ISO can be used, the problem can be resolved mostly, but, unfortunately, they haven't.

QuoteOriginally posted by USCdeacon Quote
The k10d is a marvelous camera that has incredible features for the price: shake reduction, dust reduction and weather sealing.

Olympus just recently announced the new E-510 and packed it with a nice set of features as well: image stabilization (basically shake reduction), dust reduction (in the current generation of cameras, Olympus came out on top with this feature, with the pentax k10d right behind and the canon xti which has a dust reduction system that many say is better off without), and a new live MOS sensor (that allows live previewing through the LCD).

The E-510 is priced at $999 MSRP with a 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 and 40-150mm F4.0-5.6 Zuiko Digital Lens.

Does the k10d have serious competition around the corner or do you think the E-510 will give the k10d a good run for it's money?

(Of course we won't know for sure until the usual reviewers/critics get the camera in hand and comment on the specifics, but felt that it'd be fun to ask )
03-14-2007, 09:45 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by USCdeacon Quote
Does the k10d have serious competition around the corner or do you think the E-510 will give the k10d a good run for it's money?
These two cameras belong to different classes. E510 only has a single control dial, it does not offer battery grip options, and it does not have weather seals. E510 caters to the more amateur classes with scene modes. So no, E510 does not compete well with K10D. I believe E510 sits between K10D and K100D. But it is priced so high that it makes K10D such a bargain. And I do not have high hopes for the 4/3 sensor with 10MP packed in.
03-14-2007, 09:51 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Feature wise and price wise, the E-510 must win.
You must be kidding. Does E510 have a front control dial? Actually, this alone would put it a class below K10D. Once you have used cameras with two control dials, there is no turning back. Does E510 have battery grip options? Does it have weather seals (though it is not important to you, it is for many other users)?

And the fact that it is using a sensor so much smaller, and yet priced so close to the K10D make it poor value as compared with K10D.
03-15-2007, 12:23 AM   #12
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My first digital camera was an Oly C3030Z (3 megapixel). My wife gave it to me for my 40th birthday in yr. 2000. This was when all the "purists" thought digital was an inferior fad that would never seriously compete with film. It cost her nearly $1500 after including rechargable batteries, media card, power cord, camera bag, etc. She knew I wanted something beyond a simple digital P&S (e.g Casio 1 megapixel). I already had a Pentax ZX-7 SLR and a few FA lenses for it. I didn't want to go "instamatic" just for a digital camera so she told the guy at the camera store that I needed something under $10,000,000,000 that I could have full manual control over. He recommended the Oly because there was literally nothing like it at the time. The Oly CxxxxZ series were very much like dslrs but without interchangebale lenses or optical viewfinders. They had auto/program modes (just like dlsrs) but also had manual/aperature/and shutter priorty modes, ISO control, WB control, etc. My old C3030z (and newer C5050z) have almost every control feature that my istDS has.

I bought a Pentax istDS a couple of years ago because I desperately wanted interchangeable lenses and an optical view finder. I already had the lenses from my old ZX-7 so the choice was simple.

I am a Pentax fan because I love the Pentax *system*. But.... All the nitpicking over minor details of one brand or model over another in terms of image quality make me laugh. I'm a pretty picky and detail oriented person but I defy anyone to be able to accurately identify which camera (Oly Cxxxz P&S vs. Pentax dslr) was used for a given 8x10 print. I have thousands of images from both camera manufactures and I can say from experience that the only thing that matters is which camera you prefer to use.

The differences in image quality have FAR more to do with who created the image then which camera was used to create it. Concerns over things like sensor noise, etc. are so trivial as to be meaningless. When people talk to me about how great their equipment is I always ask: "Let's see your pictures" -- because that's all that matters

Last edited by awjweb; 03-15-2007 at 12:37 AM.
03-15-2007, 12:52 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by awjweb Quote
The differences in image quality have FAR more to do with who created the image then which camera was used to create it. Concerns over things like sensor noise, etc. are so trivial as to be meaningless.
While what you said was true to a certain extent, but you cannot dismiss sensor noise altogether.

I like doing available light photography and indoor shots. And sensor noise (together with lag) is one of the main reason I gave up on "prosumer" cameras and move into DSLRs. For me, K10D's noise level is very low, and I have no hesitation using high ISO.

And sensor noise is also THE reason why I selected Fujifilm F30 over other compact cameras. It simply opens up a whole new area of available light non-flash photography. And it also greatly extends and provides a useable range of the tiny flash on compact cameras.
03-15-2007, 01:53 AM   #14
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I wouldn't consider it. Few third party lenses, very few places stock the Zuiko glass, the live view thing is stupid, I just don't like them.
03-15-2007, 11:15 AM   #15
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E-510 must win?

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Feature wise and price wise, the E-510 must win.
RiceHigh, on which features precisely except for LiveView (which indeed could be a boon in some whacky framing situations and macros) "E-510 must win" over K10D? Non weather-sealed body or 3 AF point (vs 11 AF points) or single command dial or dimmer and smaller OVF or lack of available vertical grip?
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