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06-10-2022, 03:47 PM   #31
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Well, the K-3 III has the first AF system major work-over since the K-5 II and IIs. That's a major skip that is over 3 other models, the K-3, K-3 II, and the KP. I have the KP, but have never owned any of the K-3 models. I don't know how it's AF may have been re-tuned, but my KP, coming in well after the K-3 II, definitely delivers fast, more sure AF, especially from my screw-driven lenses, than does my K-5 IIs, and is more reliable than even the K-3 II from what I've read by users.

In addition to its AF make-over, the K-3 III's higher ISO performance is greatly improved over that of the K-3. This means, you could use a Pentax DA 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 DC WR lens at a higher ISO which would provide a shutter speed equal to a much faster aperture lens on your K-3. This lens has tremendous versatility to avoid the need for lens-changing. If shooting at a longer FL than your Tamron 28-75 is capable of, that alone would reduce DOF. I have a number of fast-aperture zoom lenses, which I value highly. However, I will say, my DA 18-135m lens, which I've had for over 10 years and have used on numerous bodies, has an AF that has been consistently exceptional for speed and accuracy with every camera on which I have used it. Its main weakness is reduced sharpness at the frame edges, especially in going more into the tele range, but in doing so the importance of edge sharpness usually is less of an issue anyway. At shorter FLs, edge sharpness is pretty good, and quite good if stopped down even by just one click. Central sharpness is excellent throughout.


Last edited by mikesbike; 06-10-2022 at 04:09 PM.
06-10-2022, 07:02 PM   #32
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I also vote for getting the 18 135.
Currently available under $200 aud used. Make sure it has the hood first.
06-10-2022, 08:04 PM   #33
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The DA 18-135mm lens is indeed well-built for its class, and durable. I have bought a few used older lenses no longer in production on rare occasion. But if something were to happen to my DA 18-135mm, I would buy the replacement new, as the cost is quite reasonable, especially for all you get for the money, and it it is never certain what a used lens has been through. Also, some have reported developing lens creep with this lens over time. Mine has not because of the way I have always handled its use. I never go about with a camera hanging around my neck. I have it in a belt-loop/ across-shoulders holster case, and simply draw out the camera when needing to shoot. This method protects the camera and lens, while providing support and stability.

I also have the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM which is a very fine-performing lens, and the exceptional Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 along with the fine DA* 200mm f/2.8, SDM lenses a combo that can produce outstanding results and satisfies my f/2.8 zoom needs admirably. However, I would not want to be without my DA 18-135mm for its combination of versatility with quality when I need the ability to instantly frame shots at various distances and FLs, along with its compact carrying.
06-11-2022, 03:16 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5teve Quote
I loved these lenses on the K20, but since getting the K3 - I just cannot get good shots. I can either get sharp up close ones and oof distance shots or with adjustment, vise versa. This is for both lenses, so my conclusion (as well as speaking to the pentax distributor) is that the tamrons or speciifcially my tamrons just do not play nicely with my K3. Its that bad that I've almost stopped using the camera, as i get a keeper rate of probably 25-40% and i'm not fussy on keepers.
Which AF points are you using with the K-3 and what aperture are you shooting with?
I seem to remember that only the centre AF point of the K-3 is designed for f2.8 and the ones on the sides are only accurate enough for f5.6 and smaller apertures (small focusing errors might have happened on your K20 too, it just might have not been apparent because of the smaller sensor resolution)
That said, some camera+lens combinations just don't play well together.


Personally I only use the centre AF point on my K-3 when using AF lenses and reframe after focusing or I shoot a little wider and crop to the desired frame afterwards (depending on the available timeframe of the situation).
As my faster lenses are mainly vintage lenses I've proceeded to MF when shooting indoor sports altogether with great success. It takes some practice but the achievable focus speed and precission is not to be underestimated

06-11-2022, 05:51 AM   #35
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Firstly - Thank you all for the responses. Objective, varied and also passionate. I will take my time to go through and respond.. probably over a couple of posts.. and then provide an update

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
If the focus issues aren't repeatable, e.g you focus five times on the same subject and get different focus every time, it can't fixed by AF adjustment.
Agreed and this was what I was seeing.

QuoteOriginally posted by microlight Quote
Hi Steve. Yes, absolutely new hardware is nice, which is exactly the reason that I’ve upgraded bodies and lenses over the years; my point was about learning to get the best out of them rather than dropping large sums and hoping that it does the job. Being amateur or professional for me doesn’t come into it. I’ve been amateur for more than forty years, but amateur doesn’t necessarily mean less good, in the same way that professional doesn’t necessarily mean less bad (my daughter’s professional wedding photos being a good example!).

I hear what you say about fine focus-tuning of zooms, so I adjust my practice to cope. I found that I mostly tend to use my 55-300PLM at around 250-300mm so I tune it there. For shorter tele and close-up I use the 100Macro. The 20-40 has a short zoom range so the tuning remains constant across the range.

Hopefully the comments in this thread will help you out - we’re generally a positive bunch! 😀

Edit - Biz makes a great point about old lenses wearing!
Thanks Microlight.. I guess my point about being an amateur is that I dont have the camera in my hand every day.. nor do I have the time. But when I do I want it to work and get results I am happy with... they are good enough for me which is all that matters. I dont mind dropping sums of money for the right gear.. I am one of those that would rather spend once and have a long time use with the best quality I can afford. I'm fortunate not to have LBA.. not that it stops me dreaming. The only reason I bough the tamrons at the time was that the 16-50 and 50-135 SDM motors were falling over left right and centre and I didnt want to be caught out with a broken lens (at the time the AUD was 1:1 with the USD so lenses were around half the price fron the US.)

Ive been around the forum for years so I know i'm going to get some good responses.. and its pleasing to see nobody jumping on me when I mentions swapping systems

Anyway an update is following - it doesnt resolve my issues.. but its helped

Steve

---------- Post added 06-11-2022 at 01:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
If I were in your shoes (and I'm not... ), I'd take the long view... ... use my phone's camera for family grab-shots and retire my K-3+lens kit (out of sight, out of mind ).

When family/career/economy things settle after (say, 5yrs), I would have saved a personal 'nest-egg' of fun-hobby money. At that time, I'd have a better idea of how I might wish to pursue photography as a hobby. I'd reassess my camera kit needs (who knows what the offerings will be like?) and buy what best fits.

OTOH... If forced to make a move, today, don't cheap-out . I'd dump all my old obsolete gear and get a K-3 III+DA 20-40 Ltd+ DA*60-250+HD1.4TC, then never look back.

My 2 cents... M
Your 2 cents are appreciated I cant retire the gear.. surely there must be a toy story equivalent for cameras? The phones are great (PIxel 5 currently) but they still are overprocessed, and just not dslr quality.. apart from the video.. the video can be outstanding.

Re the hobby money - funds are not the problem.. my perceived value is. I already have too many hobbies - 2 boats, 4 cars, 2 3d printers, a business and a family.. photography is in there too.. but would like it to be less frustrating than a 3d printer.. (if you have ever used one you know what I mean!)

Re being forced to make a move.. yeah I can see the value and my heart says pentax.. but my head also says it will probably be the last pentax I can 'afford' (ie justify spending - unless it becomes a business) so is it really the right option?

QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
As iheiramo said -
If you go for a prime it doesn't have to be the latest greatest.
But for a 5 yr old AF would be good. So F series onwards to the DA 50 1.8
You can do this on a budget and restore your confidence in an awesome camera.
I am very much a prime user so biased but I think even zoom users suspect that your zooms are probably mediocre.
I'm not old school and just dont have the patience for manual focus.. nor the skill The Tamrons were / are a good lens when you got a good copy..

The K3 i'm sure is great.. im sure the k3 mk3 is so much better too

QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
Personally, I feel a dedicated video camera is better for video, but that’s only my opinion. I don’t feel a DSLR or mirrorless body is ergonomically efficient for shooting video. I would prefer using a cell phone over a DSLR.

I also feel that the lenses are the problem. Do you have any camera groups around where you could possibly try out other peoples gear? I’m guessing probably not, but have you thought about rentals to try lenses, or different cameras? Unfortunately renting is not cheap, but it’s cheaper than buying something and finding out you don’t like it.

I used to have a Tamron 70-200 2.8. I got it new, I had to send it back to Tamron twice because the electrical contacts did not line up properly, the second time I sent a camera with it. After getting it back the first time and it not working, I contacted Tamron service and they said it worked with their only Pentax (I don’t remember the model but it was one the first Pentax DSLRs) and suggested I send my camera with it, fortunately their service was fast. Once back it was fine, but I always felt the autofocus was a little jumpy, like it didn’t always hold, I never could use it with AF-C, but AF-C was no that good on the K-50 and K-30 anyway, so it may have not been the lens. That experience led me to doubt Tamron’s QC, and wondering if they were using newer cameras in the design phase. I do have one Tamron lens now which seems very good, the 90 macro, I seldom use auto focus on it, but is has the same auto focus switch as the 70-200, that odd push pull of the barrel. What a poor design that is, it’s just too easy to change without trying.
Not sure about camera groups.. probably but in Perth.. i'm not sure too many will be running Pentax.. our purchase options are limited..

This was my second copy of the tamron - the first got returned to B&H as it was very soft.. this one was much better (on the k20) I agree on the jumpy and its probably to do with several factors including screw drive, older firmware (on the lens) and now with the k3.. just not accurate enough to give a good pixel peep I've never had any success with AFC.. so stopped trying.. probably my technique rather than the camera.. and probably the same reason I always use a single point for focus

Steve

---------- Post added 06-11-2022 at 01:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Steve, if the issue is with both lenses, then the body might be the problem. At some point I had two K3 and one K5IIs bodies and later a K1. My Tamron 70-200 worked perfectly on all four bodies. I also had a Tamron 17-50 f2.8 (not the 28-75) and that one work perfectly on my K3 and K5IIs bodies. Have your K3 checked out. If it is fixable then you are done. If it is not fixable and you want to stay with Pentax and want an economical solution, then consider a K70 available new or a used KP.

Trying to photograph an active 5-year old kid is a whole different challenge. Your best bet would be a camera with eye tracking focus system. I have tried Sony and Fuji personally and Sony was the better of the two. I understand that Canon and Nikon mirrorless cameras have similar eye AF systems but I have not tried them personally. You have some research work ahead of you.

Switching systems and starting over is costly. I have done it many times. However, I have managed to do enough paid work to pay for the systems and the system switches. If you are going to switch, just remember that most likely you will by switching to a mirrorless system as Pentax is almost the only choice as a DSLR.

I do not want to take up more space here but if you are interested, send me a PM and I will share with you what system I am using and why.
Thanks for the reply - I have had the lens and the camera checked out and they could find nothing wrong (update coming) but its good to know that your tamron did indeed perform well.. It could well be the body.. and i'll hopefully find out in the next few days as I plan to take the gear down to the LCS and try out some lenses and try the lenses on a new body..

On doing some research ( one of my downfalls doing too much) thats when I found out about eye tracking etc (the new fuji even recongnises objects - but at 4+k aud its a bit out of reach for my mind) Not sure if the K3 mk3 does the eye tracking.. but i know the tracking is much better. How good I dont know.

Switching systems from a cost point of view doesnt worry me too much - I dont have a huge lens catalogue to replace.. so will get away with minimal lenses... But it still is a significant cost whichever way you look at it. If you dont mind I will shoot you a pm to see what direction you went.. as I'm always interested. Thanks again..

QuoteOriginally posted by pepperberry farm Quote
perhaps you could share some of the shots you have issues with - with intact EXIF data - so we could see the issues you are explaining?
I will be.. once I do the update.

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
One of the dirty little secrets with DSLR’s is that zooms can be difficult to get fully fine tuned for focusing. Ideally we would be able to set different focus adjustments at different distances and focal lengths - but we can’t. So we compromise and test our lens camera combos and hope to get it close. Most of the time the problem is minor. The Tamron’s you have are generally well received but clearly your results aren’t acceptable. The 28-75 is an odd choice for an apsc primary zoom as it lacks the wide end and is more of a normal to telephoto zoom. Have you looked at prices for a used 17-50/2.8 or 16-50/2.8 or perhaps the 18-135 or 18-50?

I would try a used lens before jumping into new gear. I also would suggest that a phone will do a fine job of video… superb if there lens range is right.
Yeah it would be awesome if we could program in points for AF adjustment at certain points. I'm fairly sure it would be easy to implement.. but what do i know

Im an odd kind of person too.. so odd choices in lenses go hand in hand I'm not an outgoing person so tend not to get in close too often.. so the 28-75 actually worked well for me. Its probaby used more around the 50mm than anything.. however since the little one came along.. short zoom with a wide end and reasonably fast would be useful. (as people keep mentioning the 18-135 - I AM listening )

I'm going to try some new lenses first to eliminate everything and from there.. i'll maybe start the search for used.. but they are few and far between in Aus.. unless there is a secret stach somewhere I dont know

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Do you know that another camera system would fix your “problem”, or only hope that it will?
My days of photographing little kids was in the days of manual focus film.
You undoubtedly use less DOF than I did, but I often played with them {or my wife did}. I seldom stayed in one spot and used zoom to follow them around the room. I don’t have a whole lot of photos from those days, but I always felt that memories {mine and theirs} built during those {short} years were more important than photos in an album. [sermon end]
Its a good point.. I dont know a great deal.. but I do know my current setup is not working well. A new pentax setup could work splendidly and make me very happy.. or may not.. as could another brand... or not.. we work with what we choose and have.. but in this instance I have not been able to work with it.. The only reason i'm looking at 'another system' is purely from sensible point of view that when i'm ready to upgrade again, i think pentax will be out of my reach.. it will be niche and expensive... so I will have to change systems at that point.. If I have to get new lenses and go for a new body.. then its a lot of money.. as i am almost starting again.. so I'm looking at my options as it wouldnt be any more expensive to change.. again.. heart is with Pentax..

I dont envy you with manual focus and kids.. but you are right.. memories are more important.. and we are not parents that watch our lives from behind and through a screen, we are always going to new places... doing new things with him.. and we really do run him into the ground with the amount we do.. having photos lets us share our memories with family that are half way round the world (and trust me its been a big issue in the last 2.5 years!) The other thing is that both myself and my wife have barely any photos from when we were young.. we dont want that to be the case for him. I didnt take it as a sermon either.. its a very valid point and you see too many parents stuck behind devices.. I totally agree with you.

Steve

---------- Post added 06-11-2022 at 01:39 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I have a feeling that your focus problems might be solved by just getting a K-3 III and not changing the lenses. It's funny that both lenses started performing strangely on the same camera.

There are numerous accounts of lenses that had been underperforming on older cameras working much better on the K-3 III. I can say that in my case, I has lenses that needed focus adjustments on previous cameras that don't need any adjustment on the K-3 III. They are mostly screwdrive, but not Tamron.

Is there a shop where you can take your lenses to try with a K-3 III?
Sounds like a good justification for going for a new body I am planning on trying the k3 mk3 with my lenses and also new lenses on the k3 mk1.. Hopefully be going to a LCS on monday to check things out.

QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
I've had the Tamron 70-200 F2.8 for a couple of years now, and used it exclusively with my K3. I didn't see this problem at all, got some really great shots out of it. I still have the lens, but with a current back injury, I cannot use it because of the weight. However, I would expect it to perform just as well on my new KP.

I just don't see buying new lenses, or new cameras because of this. Perhaps your lens is faulty; but I think it would be worthwhile to continue working with it, to get good results.
Great to know that you have a good copy too I do have an update which I will post soon.. how is yours wide open?

QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Just as JPT did say, Perhaps go and try out K-3III, or rent it just to see if what you have would actually be enough(for now)and you just need to buy the K-3III.

I have had K-7, K-3 and now I have K-3III. My K-3 seemed to be okay, but still even with original pentax lenses it was about 40-60% keeper rate with 15 % something you might pixelpeep, if you trusted AF. With K-3III ratios changed to 15%non keepers and rest keepers(given that you did manage to get timing/framing right).

K-3III is different beast, honestly. I have been thinking of giving last change for pentax with K-3III should it not work out, I'd have sold off most stuff, since I also shoot with other cameras. K-3III is still here. and most of my lenses. althou I did sell few to fund my K-3III...

I have Canon R5C for hybrid, but mainly for video stuff(can use my pentax lenses with adapter quite well for that, but that is another story) for money, but also I do photography. I have bought just 1 AF lens for Canon. This thing has propably the best AF out there. K-3III with lens like DFA 28-105 or DFA*70-200 is not far behind(!), and I have not even tried PLM lenses yet. Heck, even my DA*16-50 SDM is quite good. Not to forget that OVF is beauty on K-3III also. (K-1 and R5C have really nice image quality and DR. K-3III is pretty close with other than resolution ofcourse, this is not the case with K-3 or K-20. FYI)


That said, many are happy with their Fujifilm, that I'v heard.
Interesting that you had a similar experience to me with the k3.. and they went away with the mk3.. everything i read with the latest bodies and lenses is generally very positive.. but as I've mentioned.. i just have a battle of heart and mind going on.. I doubt there are many bad camera's any more.. but they certainly render colours differently and handle differently. I like the Fuji on paper as its not really mainstream.. I prefer not to be mainstream (i have landrovers!) whcih is how I ended up with Pentax
06-11-2022, 06:55 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by vector Quote
As a parent who has recently come through the stage you are in, I can sympathize with the challenges for capturing images of active moving children. There are a couple of things I learned too late. I got bit by the desire to photograph my kids in natural light with wide open apertures. Screw drive AF (as has been mentioned already in the thread) varies greatly and depends on how fine the gears are. For me I had no problems with FA50 f1.4, FA 77, HD FA 35, DA 15, but others like DA50, DA35, they just lacked the precision and consistency needed for wide open, super narrow depth of field. The next problem I encountered is that even with fast primes wide open, there still just isn't enough light and rather than boosting the ISO I was keeping my shutter speeds to slow to freeze motion. So between noise and motion blur things weren't working out. This is a problem that won't go away with a new eye tracking af system. I now shoot with a K1 and K3III and I use mainly auto iso. Noisy photos are better than blurry ones. But I also use flash indoors, usually just bounce flash off the ceiling. The added light and the frame freezing power of flash goes a long way so that even slightly out of focus shots look better just by being well lit with low iso. The other realization that came too late is that often I found the images from our old K100D super taken with an 18-125 zoom and using flash were consistently good. So I have moved to longer focal lengths with more closed down apertures, say f4, to get more depth of field but still some pleasing background blur. I still shoot wide open more than I should, I have a DFA*50 after all and that what its made for, but not for the moving kids stuff. Switching brands will only solve eye tracking AF, not the other challenges, and my K3III tracks eyes pretty good actually. Having some lenses with DC/SDM motors makes a difference too.

As for your Tamron lenses I have both those lenses and I needed a greater than -10 adjustment to get them working consistently. I ended up putting my cameras in debug mode and shifting the AF fine tuning scale down about 4 more in order to get them dialed in and now they are great but still sit at -10 (effectively -14).
Its good to know i'm not the only one battling with a 5 year old The point has now been made a few times re screw drive.. i know it.. but I guess i just ignore it.. the camera setup was semi retired (from frustration) before he was born so I guess i kind of lost touch a bit of developments etc.. and just wanted to carry on using what I had. I still havent got my head around higher iso and using slower lenses.. i guess i'm stuck in my ways.. but that needs to change. People keep mentioning the 18-135 so i'll definitly give that a go as an all rounder.

Ive mentioned a few times but I do have a small update and the debug mode has been used too.. but i'm still not convinced and need to do more testing in daylight. The new in lens motor lenses certainly sound like they perform well now..


QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
Option 1 is the best option. There are very good Pentax lenses that will work with the K-3. Perhaps the 20-40mm Ltd or a plastic fantastic set and last but not least the 18-135. The 20-40 and 18-135 have reasonably fast AF due to the DC motor. For the 5 year old take a dedicated video camera. You can still use the K-3 when he is asleep .
The 18-135 is now on my list to check out. I'm still not convinced the body is 100%.. but should know soon when testing lenses..

QuoteOriginally posted by jgnfld Quote
Lenses gather the light and present it to the sensor. No matter how great the sensor, they cannot record something which is not getting delivered. Barring any mechanical problems with your K-3, I would definitely explore some known good lenses which aren't really all that expensive.


You could probably score two older Ltd's like (my case) the 40mm and 70mm for a fairly reasonable amt of money both of which are fine people-shooting lenses (w/ a 5 yr old, the 40 is probably a better idea!).


Or go more modern--and far more expensive--with the 16-50PLM.


In sum, I would focus on getting lenses that will perform on a range of bodies rather than a new top-of-the-line body and keep old lenses.
I'm in Australia so new and used stock is not readily available to just try like that.. but i do have a local shop that has a bit of stuff in and will let me try them.. thats hopefully early next week.

I'll take a look at the lenses but in the past have used fixed lenses and just didnt feel comfortable with them.. I dont know why... I guess i'm just lazy and like to zoom in and out I certainly appreciate your input - so thanks ..

QuoteOriginally posted by mlag Quote
I would add 4th option and check for a first used lens in shops in your area, you spend less and can check if you are more happy than with your older tamrons, before investing in new lenses. Try to avoid oldest 35mm filmera autofocus lenses , the k3 is a bit more keen on sharpness than the k20... constant aperture lenses are more expensive, but a try out with a variable aperture like the sigma 17-70 f2.8 f4 hsm , might be first cheaper step (works fine on my k3II)

For faster focus -kids running around- the pentax sdm or sigma hsm lenses are better.


Your 28-70 is typically a lens for fullframe K1 or’35 mm camera format, for the aps-c based K3 a typical lens would be 18-50 or 17-70 or 18-135 mm

for PENTAX these are DA types (not FA), bit cheaper and lighter lenses , for a smaller aps-c sensor the smaller lens makes sense , are cheaper, and give a wider view for indoor shots etc...

[Unless you shoot also’35 mm film or intend moving to K1 later]


PS try also autofocus in liveview, it uses other focus mechanism and might give some more info on possible cause (camera or lens quality).
As mentioned above.. Australia doesnt have a huge used gear base.. or new for that matter.. and finding used sigma or tamron is even harder. I think yes DC SDM or PLM are the go to now.. especially with newer faster cameras. The one advantage I thought of using the FF lens on APSC was you use less of the lens so tend to have better sharpness as you are mainly around centre.. I'm probably wrong. but i know FF is easily useable on Pentac APSC - Its also what was readily available to me at teh time. The SDM pentax range failed regularly, sigma had stopped making for pentax so it really just left me tamron.

QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
Exactly. It's not like you have to shoot big and expensive FF lenses if you want good Pentax glass on your K-3. And when you mention that fast 5-year-old in your household, one of the recent PLM-driven DA lenses, such as the 55-300, might well be an affordable ticket to boosting your keeper rate with those action shots. Ricoh had enough trust in the legacy K-3 to provide firmware updates to make the PLMs work on that body. The 55-300 PLM hasn't suddenly turned my K-3 into an action photography demon, but it does make a significant difference over the screwdriven smc predecessor, to the point where I'm nailing shots with relative ease now that would have been kind of lucky with the smc.
Yeah I noticed the firmware update..so at least they are supporting the older camera.. If i can i'll try the plm lens on the k3 and see how it goes.. that is if the LCS has them in.. which I doubt Its reassuring to know that the faster focus is helping though.. i'm sure its a hell of a lot more accurate too.

---------- Post added 06-11-2022 at 02:03 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
Well, the K-3 III has the first AF system major work-over since the K-5 II and IIs. That's a major skip that is over 3 other models, the K-3, K-3 II, and the KP. I have the KP, but have never owned any of the K-3 models. I don't know how it's AF may have been re-tuned, but my KP, coming in well after the K-3 II, definitely delivers fast, more sure AF, especially from my screw-driven lenses, than does my K-5 IIs, and is more reliable than even the K-3 II from what I've read by users.

In addition to its AF make-over, the K-3 III's higher ISO performance is greatly improved over that of the K-3. This means, you could use a Pentax DA 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 DC WR lens at a higher ISO which would provide a shutter speed equal to a much faster aperture lens on your K-3. This lens has tremendous versatility to avoid the need for lens-changing. If shooting at a longer FL than your Tamron 28-75 is capable of, that alone would reduce DOF. I have a number of fast-aperture zoom lenses, which I value highly. However, I will say, my DA 18-135m lens, which I've had for over 10 years and have used on numerous bodies, has an AF that has been consistently exceptional for speed and accuracy with every camera on which I have used it. Its main weakness is reduced sharpness at the frame edges, especially in going more into the tele range, but in doing so the importance of edge sharpness usually is less of an issue anyway. At shorter FLs, edge sharpness is pretty good, and quite good if stopped down even by just one click. Central sharpness is excellent throughout.
The 18-135 is certainly getting some votes i'll make sure I try it.. and see how it goes on the MK1... Real life reviews are far better Thanks!

QuoteOriginally posted by Joetitch Quote
I also vote for getting the 18 135.
Currently available under $200 aud used. Make sure it has the hood first.
I'm getting the message - by the way WHERE can i get a used 18-135 for under $200aud? I'll buy one tomorrow if i can find one!

QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
The DA 18-135mm lens is indeed well-built for its class, and durable. I have bought a few used older lenses no longer in production on rare occasion. But if something were to happen to my DA 18-135mm, I would buy the replacement new, as the cost is quite reasonable, especially for all you get for the money, and it it is never certain what a used lens has been through. Also, some have reported developing lens creep with this lens over time. Mine has not because of the way I have always handled its use. I never go about with a camera hanging around my neck. I have it in a belt-loop/ across-shoulders holster case, and simply draw out the camera when needing to shoot. This method protects the camera and lens, while providing support and stability.

I also have the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM which is a very fine-performing lens, and the exceptional Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 along with the fine DA* 200mm f/2.8, SDM lenses a combo that can produce outstanding results and satisfies my f/2.8 zoom needs admirably. However, I would not want to be without my DA 18-135mm for its combination of versatility with quality when I need the ability to instantly frame shots at various distances and FLs, along with its compact carrying.
And another vote for the 18-135 - I did have a sigma 17-50 f2.8 (older one) on my k20.. but it was very soft throughout the range.. I never could get it dialled in. I bought it used (unseen) and it was obvious why it had been sold!

QuoteOriginally posted by othar Quote
Which AF points are you using with the K-3 and what aperture are you shooting with?
I seem to remember that only the centre AF point of the K-3 is designed for f2.8 and the ones on the sides are only accurate enough for f5.6 and smaller apertures (small focusing errors might have happened on your K20 too, it just might have not been apparent because of the smaller sensor resolution)
That said, some camera+lens combinations just don't play well together.


Personally I only use the centre AF point on my K-3 when using AF lenses and reframe after focusing or I shoot a little wider and crop to the desired frame afterwards (depending on the available timeframe of the situation).
As my faster lenses are mainly vintage lenses I've proceeded to MF when shooting indoor sports altogether with great success. It takes some practice but the achievable focus speed and precission is not to be underestimated
Centre point only.. and all sorts of apertures.. what ever suits what I'm shooting and the given light. I do think my tamrons dont like the k3 or vice versa (likely the body) However that said - at some point tomorrow (going to bed shortly) I will post an update after doing a few more tests.. I think I have an improvement .. but not enough for what I'm looking for I dont think.. and I think its more down to old lens - newer hardware requiring precision...



SO as I have mentioned i have been doing some testing - found out some interesting things (i think they are.. ) and have made some progress.. but i'm not sure one way or the other whether i'm happy with the combo.. More tests tomorrow and i'll post an update.

Steve

Last edited by 5teve; 06-11-2022 at 07:05 AM.
06-11-2022, 07:24 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5teve Quote
Sorry Terry - I mean with AF adjustment being made in the menu.. I can adjust for close or far, but cannot get a setting for all ranges..

Steve
Not uncommon with zooms unfortunately. My Tamron built DFA70-210/4 is similar to what you are describing. I have my AF dialed in on that lens for the longest focal length and middle distance. It isn't perfect but it's the best I can get from that lens.
I wonder if it's a Tamron issue?

06-11-2022, 09:40 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5teve Quote
My main subjects would be my 5 year old (very fast) when we travel and go places (every weekend) and My K3 doesnt do a good job with current lenses - but may be better with the newer lenses. I know the K3 III is a big upgrade from the K3.. but still not sure if staying with Pentax is the right decision.
Most of my daughter's childhood was captured in photos with Pentax DSLRs, starting with the K10D. While I managed to get some wonderful pictures of her in action (soccer, swimming, softball, basketball...) I remember to this day the frequent frustration of missing a shot I really wanted, because of the slow AF (I am not that good at using MF for moving subjects). After years of messing around, buying more and more Pentax gear, hoping that the next lens, the next body would do better, I realized that for me, it was a fool's errand. Pentax gear is awesome for lots of reasons an I LOVE using it but not for sports. Once I realized that, I got a camera with fast AF - just for action - and have not stopped smiling since. I still have more Pentax gear than any sane person probably should but I only use it for slow stuff. Perfect balance

My advice as a parent - don't waste precious time agonizing over the gear. Bite the bullet and spend the money on the right kit for the task (maybe even the K3III) and you will be much happier for it, now and in the future. I promise.
06-11-2022, 05:16 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Not uncommon with zooms unfortunately. My Tamron built DFA70-210/4 is similar to what you are describing. I have my AF dialed in on that lens for the longest focal length and middle distance. It isn't perfect but it's the best I can get from that lens.
I wonder if it's a Tamron issue?
Thanks Wheatfield.. thats actually really disappointing to hear about for the 70-210 F4.. that lens was on my list to try as I heard it was exellent and its half the cost of the 70-200.. very possibly just a tamron QC issue?

QuoteOriginally posted by akptc Quote
Most of my daughter's childhood was captured in photos with Pentax DSLRs, starting with the K10D. While I managed to get some wonderful pictures of her in action (soccer, swimming, softball, basketball...) I remember to this day the frequent frustration of missing a shot I really wanted, because of the slow AF (I am not that good at using MF for moving subjects). After years of messing around, buying more and more Pentax gear, hoping that the next lens, the next body would do better, I realized that for me, it was a fool's errand. Pentax gear is awesome for lots of reasons an I LOVE using it but not for sports. Once I realized that, I got a camera with fast AF - just for action - and have not stopped smiling since. I still have more Pentax gear than any sane person probably should but I only use it for slow stuff. Perfect balance

My advice as a parent - don't waste precious time agonizing over the gear. Bite the bullet and spend the money on the right kit for the task (maybe even the K3III) and you will be much happier for it, now and in the future. I promise.
This is precisely where I am at.. I cant really justify having 2 different setups.. but having gear that does the job and provides less frustration is where my head is.. but that COULD be a pentax setup (certainly the k3 mk3 is well received) .. either utilising my body and new lenses.. or new everything etc.. its just hard to know what to do! I'd be interested to know which way you jumped for the added gear.. I really need to get to the local shop and get some gear in my hands..

Steve
06-11-2022, 07:45 PM   #40
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If, as you were claiming earlier in the thread, you are able to make an adjustment such that the lens produces good shots at close zoom but not at far (or vice versa), that doesn't sound like there's something "imprecise" about the focusing mechanism of the lens (aka slop/backlash in the mechanism). It simply sounds as though the camera isn't able to be fine tuned for multiple focal lengths. Have you tried making the adjustment for somewhere in the middle of the zoom range (or with a setting midway between the values that work for the two zoom extremes)?

The other thing being repeated here that I don't know if I agree with is that Pentax will become "niche" and unaffordable in the future. None of us know whether that's going to happen, but from what I see, I don't have any reason to think that it's true.
The K3iii came out for just under $2000 (USD, sorry that's just what I'm familiar with), and has dropped by $300 within a year. It's more than most of us wish it was, but it's not really a ton for a flagship camera in 2022. Certainly not some phase-change to Leica style prestige pricing. And it seems to be a success.
The most recent lens releases have been a similar story: a little more than similar offerings in the past, but not outrageously so. The most recent Pentax release, the OGPS2 accessory, is actually surprisingly reasonably priced. Even the special edition Jet Black crowdfunding event K3iii was only a few hundred more than the basic K3iii.
None of this seems, at least to me, like they are testing the waters for becoming a super expensive luxury brand, it seems like they are raising prices just as much as they can get away with to try and stay afloat in a tough business.


As for your situation, I would say buying a K3iii and 18-135 would be a good first step, and see if it works okay for you with that lens and with your current lenses. You can always upgrade the lenses later if you're happy with the camera and still doubt the lenses. And, if the new camera doesn't perform with either the old lenses or the brand new 18-135, you should be able to return it for a reasonable amount of time.
06-11-2022, 08:43 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5teve Quote
either utilising my body and new lenses.. or new everything etc.. its just hard to know what to do! I'd be interested to know which way you jumped for the added gear.. I really need to get to the local shop and get some gear in my hands..
It was a while ago, first I got a D700 as I also needed a fool-proof flash system and that worked for me well. Most recently, still keeping AF speed in mind, I ended up getting the Sony alpha 7r4 with 12-28, 24-105, 70-200, 100-400, and 50/1.2 and am happy with this combo. The Sony does not feel as good in the hand as the Pentax but I can live with that.
06-11-2022, 10:30 PM   #42
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OK so an update.. a bit of embarrasment and still no further along really

So I spent a bit of time doing some tests with the 70-200 and looking at settings etc.. nothing seemed amiss.. but focus was still very spotty.. and at the long end was dire.. and at f2.8 was unuseable..

While looking at the images in lightroom i had the camera on my lap.. it slipped i caught it and i noticed a knock.. which caught my attention. On further investigation the front element was loose.. not just loose.. but floating around inside the bezel that protects the front (the threaded section) I stripped the front down, all 3 screws were fully out, 2 out of I assume 3 shims were there.. well one was inside the lens, the other had been squashed against the front bezel.. so I straightened them out, made a plastic shin the same size as the metal ones (0.21mm thick - took some finding!) and then continued to do some testing.. It made a BIG difference as you can imagine! I have no idea why the screws were backed out apart from when it went in for 'testing' they did not assemble it well enough, pretty dissapointing either way and dissapointed in myself for not noticing this sooner as this lens has travelled far and wide with me.

So as far as the 70-200 - performance is drastically improved, when it gets focus.. BUT and this is the BIG BUT, it is still very inconsistent. I spend a considerable time going through adjustments, have the debug menu running and it really appears that making AF adjustments is also inconsistent. I can make a -120um adjustment and a -10 adjustment and its spot on.. slightly further away I have to remove all adjustment.. and bring it back to a default +1 or so.. and then off it goes again.. There seems to be a difference indoors and outdoors which I though the k3 had got over.. but I need to do more testing to work that one out.

Testing the 70-200 with my 'model' (constant moaning that he is bored!) got some 'good' shots.. but for every in focus shot.. there was 2 or 3 not.. lighting wasnt great.. but I was hand held at above 1/focal length and propped against a wall.. so I should have been good. the poor shots are not motion related just definitly front or back focus.. so I think we are down to the accuracy and mechnism of the tamrons on the K3.. and the k3 not being forgiving enough for the lenses like the k20 was.. F2.8 has a glow but not too bad.. and by F4.. its better.. not that F2.8 is unuseable..

Below Images are straight out of lightroom with no processing at all (straight import and export - Yes i know they could be improved but thats not my aim here) I'd appreciate your thoughts on the performance.. F2.8@200mm... and these were the ones I got in focus.. distance was around 3-4m from me







Below are 200mm F4.. distance again 3-4 meters away.





Last one - 200mm F4 and about 10m away.



Thats part one of the update - I'm out of time till later so will continue later

Steve
06-11-2022, 10:38 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5teve Quote
1, Buy new lenses and hope the K3 works with them - I'd be looking at Pentax 28-70 2.8 and either the 70-200 F2.8 or the 70-210 F4 - Still in the region of 3-4k AUD - I'd need to send the K3 in for service too..
2, Buy a whole new kit with above lenses and new K3 III - I'm looking at some serious money here in Aus.. Sell what I have either in parts or as a whole - I have the k20 still too..
3, Change Eco system.. probably head to Fuji or the like. I can get an XT4 with lens for less than a Pentax lens.. it fairly compelling, but I love Pentax, I love the size and feel (I use a grip too - I like the larger feel)
The XT4 can be gripped and theres 2 batteries in the grip so 3 in all.Makes it a sizeable device.

Seeing the 16-45 works on K3, the cheapest way is to get the 18-135.Ebay has them, it'll end up well over A$300 if you buy the near mint category from Japan.

You didn't specifically mention other brands apart from Fuji.I will.

Two weeks ago Canon announce the R7,the lower priced R system lenses are reasonably priced.Higher end are costly.The important thing is the R crop Canons come with the top end processor Digic X and the AF algorithm from the(at present) flagship R3.SUPER FAST.

There are 150 million native lenses to choose from...(130with an adapter that work better on the mirrorless bodies than on the Dslr bodies.)

I'd consider the Canon as well as the XT4.
06-12-2022, 04:57 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
The XT4 can be gripped and theres 2 batteries in the grip so 3 in all.Makes it a sizeable device.

Seeing the 16-45 works on K3, the cheapest way is to get the 18-135.Ebay has them, it'll end up well over A$300 if you buy the near mint category from Japan.

You didn't specifically mention other brands apart from Fuji.I will.

Two weeks ago Canon announce the R7,the lower priced R system lenses are reasonably priced.Higher end are costly.The important thing is the R crop Canons come with the top end processor Digic X and the AF algorithm from the(at present) flagship R3.SUPER FAST.

There are 150 million native lenses to choose from...(130with an adapter that work better on the mirrorless bodies than on the Dslr bodies.)

I'd consider the Canon as well as the XT4.
Yeah the 18-135 is on my hitlist now after the comments here.. Thanks for another vote

I guess the only reason I mentioned fuji is they are not mainstream.. have a passionate following and render colours well too.. however digging into things shows AF issues.. lens pricing is up there.. and having never handled one.. yeah.. its unknown. My intention is to go to a LCS tomorrow and have a look at whats on offer.. although its more down to what they have in stock.. I'll take a look at the canon offerings too.. but for some reason (don't ask me why) i tend to not like canon or nikon.. I've thought about sony too as they have a vast array of lenses, but I hear the handling is pretty dire... appreciate the info on the canon.. and i'm sure the second hand lens market is far more populated than pentax here..

Steve
06-12-2022, 08:22 AM - 1 Like   #45
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There really should not be any issues using those two tamron lenses with a k-3. I have a few copies of these and I use those lenses all the time with my k-3 mk 1 bodies And k-3 mk3 and they function just fine with AF. If you look at the lens reviews here on pentax forums you will see many positive reviews of users using them on a k-3.

Add to it that both Tamrons work on the ops k-20d but not his k-3 to me points to the k-3 being the issue. Maybe check firmware updates on the k-3?

Al
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