Best way to clean the mirror?

axl · 12-21-2008, 05:56 AM

many people have been saying that canned air is bad for you camera...
I have used canned air on my 2 bodies of K100D for over 2 years and now on my K10D. No damage AT ALL, cameras perform perfectly...
BR

Wheatfield · 12-21-2008, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by axl

many people have been saying that canned air is bad for you camera...
I have used canned air on my 2 bodies of K100D for over 2 years and now on my K10D. No damage AT ALL, cameras perform perfectly...
BR

I've been using canned air routinely for about 4 decades for cleaning equipment with no harm to anything. It's not like the propellant comes out of the can at supersonic velocity or anything.
My understanding of the rocket blowers is that to be effective, the nozzle needs to be inside the mirror box, close to the sensor. To me, this is far more risky an operation than a few quick puffs of gas from outside the camera body.
The only thing I do make sure of is that there is no propellant in the valve (a couple of puffs aimed away from the camera before cleaning).

One think I have noticed is that with the camera set to rattle the sensor on startup I haven't had to clean a sensor ever. I have yet to need to clean the sensor on my K20.

Ben_Edict · 12-21-2008, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I've been using canned air routinely for about 4 decades for cleaning equipment with no harm to anything. It's not like the propellant comes out of the can at supersonic velocity or anything.
My understanding of the rocket blowers is that to be effective, the nozzle needs to be inside the mirror box, close to the sensor. To me, this is far more risky an operation than a few quick puffs of gas from outside the camera body.
The only thing I do make sure of is that there is no propellant in the valve (a couple of puffs aimed away from the camera before cleaning).

One think I have noticed is that with the camera set to rattle the sensor on startup I haven't had to clean a sensor ever. I have yet to need to clean the sensor on my K20.

Canned air will not damage the sensor by the air stream's force. The sensor is protected by quite hard glas. But often canned air contains some residues, often oily, which leave more hard to clean away stuff on the sensor, than you had to start with.

A rocket blower is in this respect a safer bet. Just (Wheatfield, you know that, I just add that for other readers) use the blower with the camera mount pointing downwards. This way, most of the dust blown off the sensor and other internal surfaces will fall out of the camera and cannot settle inside again.

Ben

Ben_Edict · 12-21-2008, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by chlen

So from being out and shooting with many lenses my mirror and ccd got a bit smudgy and it was causing some focus problem as well as leaving lines and marks on the photos. The sensor is quite easy to clean with the mirror up, just needed some canned air.

The mirror is tricky. It is quite different from the Zenit and Nikkor SLRs I am used to, it does not come forward and I am not sure what solution to use and if I want to stick anything inside the camera. The mirror up position obviously makes it uncleanable but it exposes the sensor as well.

Anyone got a great tip on cleaning it.

If you look at the sky in the photo you can see some spots that I am talking about.

I clean mirrors very rarely, may be once every couple of years. If you have really stubborn smear on the mirror one way of cleaning it, is usung a soft tissue (Pec Pads), wrap one around a Q-Tip (Q-Tips on their own will leave even more loose fibres on the mirror) and add some drops of Eclips. Wipe the mirror GENTLY. Eclips or Isopropyl alcohol gets rid of almost anything, which could adhere (grease from fingerprints, pollens etc.) to the mirros and evaporates quickly without leaving any traces.

It is important to work carefully, as the mirror mechanism is very sensitive and you could bring the mirror out of alignment easily.

Ben

Wheatfield · 12-21-2008, 10:31 AM

Ben brings up a good point about working gently if you are going to be so brave as to clean a mirror, which I want to expand on somewhat.
You don't really need to worry overmuch about scratching the mirror surface, it is front silvered, and so you are cleaning a metal surface.
It will scratch or get cleaning marks if you rub hard enough, but by the time you've damaged the reflective surface, you will have knocked the mechanism so far out of whack that the camera will need a repair anyway.
I reall do advise to just leave the mirror alone. It is the only moving part in the entire camera, and the components that actuate it are very precise and very fragile, and the fact is, nothing that gets on the mirror will affect the image, either viewfinder or actual, inless there is enough junk on it to shut down the camera entirely.

If you are that neurotic about dust, see a psychiatrist, you have a problem that cleaning a camera won't solve.

dave sz · 12-21-2008, 10:47 AM

I have a 33gal compressor in the garage. Use it regularly to clean out all the dust in my custom PC. I'm gonna set it to a low PSI and try it on my camera. I'll need to buy or make some kind of a bypass to make sure all the moisture(once in a blue moon it does come out through the hose) is stopped before reaching the nozzle. This is just for the focus screen and mirror of course...

Ben_Edict · 12-21-2008, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by dave sz

I have a 33gal compressor in the garage. Use it regularly to clean out all the dust in my custom PC. I'm gonna set it to a low PSI and try it on my camera. I'll need to buy or make some kind of a bypass to make sure all the moisture(once in a blue moon it does come out through the hose) is stopped before reaching the nozzle. This is just for the focus screen and mirror of course...

Using a common compressor for blowing out dust is a recipe for disaster. Most real compressors are mixing oil intothe air stream, to lubricate their pumping parts and this will be distributed as a thin film right around the mirror box in your camera. Depending on the compressor, you may get away sometimes, even a couple of times without that oil fog, but sooner or later...

This might be different with a small modeller's compressor, but I never used one of these, so I leave that up to somebody else's comment. A simple rubber rocket blower is easier, less noisy, saves energy and does the job.

Ben

dave sz · 12-21-2008, 04:45 PM

I put the oil into the tools themselves, not the compressor, before every use. I've tested this before on glass and mirrors and have never seen any film...

Wheatfield · 12-21-2008, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by dave sz

I have a 33gal compressor in the garage. Use it regularly to clean out all the dust in my custom PC. I'm gonna set it to a low PSI and try it on my camera. I'll need to buy or make some kind of a bypass to make sure all the moisture(once in a blue moon it does come out through the hose) is stopped before reaching the nozzle. This is just for the focus screen and mirror of course...

Noooooooo!!!!!

Bad idea. You can't make it clean enough, and probably can't regulate the pressure low enough.

Peter Zack · 12-21-2008, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by dave sz

I have a 33gal compressor in the garage. Use it regularly to clean out all the dust in my custom PC. I'm gonna set it to a low PSI and try it on my camera. I'll need to buy or make some kind of a bypass to make sure all the moisture(once in a blue moon it does come out through the hose) is stopped before reaching the nozzle. This is just for the focus screen and mirror of course...

You're kidding right? Ben and WF are absolutely correct. Not only is the mirror very sensitive but you SHOULD NEVER use compressed air from any source. Ever.

All I ever do is a gentle puff of air from the rocket blower. I have a small lens clean brush (never touched and kept in a zip lock bag) that has been used twice to remove stubborn dust. Otherwise left alone.

grumgrummer · 12-26-2008, 03:28 PM

It's a brave person who attempts to clean a surface-silvered mirror in a piece of precision equipment.
I used to use this stuff in the flat glass industry for replacing broken rear-view mirrors on vehicles. All it needs to be damaged is the most miniscule bit of contaminant (dust) on the cleaning swab/rag ,and the surface is beyond repair.
It was my pet hate in a factory situation. Even storing the stuff with protective layers between the sheets was a nightmare.
My K200D has a small "stain" on its mirror, doesn't affect my view and doesn't show up on the picture. It can stay there!

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12-21-2008, 05:56 AM	#16
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	many people have been saying that canned air is bad for you camera... I have used canned air on my 2 bodies of K100D for over 2 years and now on my K10D. No damage AT ALL, cameras perform perfectly... BR

12-21-2008, 07:15 AM	#17
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by axl many people have been saying that canned air is bad for you camera... I have used canned air on my 2 bodies of K100D for over 2 years and now on my K10D. No damage AT ALL, cameras perform perfectly... BR I've been using canned air routinely for about 4 decades for cleaning equipment with no harm to anything. It's not like the propellant comes out of the can at supersonic velocity or anything. My understanding of the rocket blowers is that to be effective, the nozzle needs to be inside the mirror box, close to the sensor. To me, this is far more risky an operation than a few quick puffs of gas from outside the camera body. The only thing I do make sure of is that there is no propellant in the valve (a couple of puffs aimed away from the camera before cleaning). One think I have noticed is that with the camera set to rattle the sensor on startup I haven't had to clean a sensor ever. I have yet to need to clean the sensor on my K20.

12-21-2008, 07:36 AM	#18
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by Wheatfield I've been using canned air routinely for about 4 decades for cleaning equipment with no harm to anything. It's not like the propellant comes out of the can at supersonic velocity or anything. My understanding of the rocket blowers is that to be effective, the nozzle needs to be inside the mirror box, close to the sensor. To me, this is far more risky an operation than a few quick puffs of gas from outside the camera body. The only thing I do make sure of is that there is no propellant in the valve (a couple of puffs aimed away from the camera before cleaning). One think I have noticed is that with the camera set to rattle the sensor on startup I haven't had to clean a sensor ever. I have yet to need to clean the sensor on my K20. Canned air will not damage the sensor by the air stream's force. The sensor is protected by quite hard glas. But often canned air contains some residues, often oily, which leave more hard to clean away stuff on the sensor, than you had to start with. A rocket blower is in this respect a safer bet. Just (Wheatfield, you know that, I just add that for other readers) use the blower with the camera mount pointing downwards. This way, most of the dust blown off the sensor and other internal surfaces will fall out of the camera and cannot settle inside again. Ben

12-21-2008, 07:40 AM	#19
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by chlen So from being out and shooting with many lenses my mirror and ccd got a bit smudgy and it was causing some focus problem as well as leaving lines and marks on the photos. The sensor is quite easy to clean with the mirror up, just needed some canned air. The mirror is tricky. It is quite different from the Zenit and Nikkor SLRs I am used to, it does not come forward and I am not sure what solution to use and if I want to stick anything inside the camera. The mirror up position obviously makes it uncleanable but it exposes the sensor as well. Anyone got a great tip on cleaning it. If you look at the sky in the photo you can see some spots that I am talking about. I clean mirrors very rarely, may be once every couple of years. If you have really stubborn smear on the mirror one way of cleaning it, is usung a soft tissue (Pec Pads), wrap one around a Q-Tip (Q-Tips on their own will leave even more loose fibres on the mirror) and add some drops of Eclips. Wipe the mirror GENTLY. Eclips or Isopropyl alcohol gets rid of almost anything, which could adhere (grease from fingerprints, pollens etc.) to the mirros and evaporates quickly without leaving any traces. It is important to work carefully, as the mirror mechanism is very sensitive and you could bring the mirror out of alignment easily. Ben

12-21-2008, 10:31 AM	#20
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Ben brings up a good point about working gently if you are going to be so brave as to clean a mirror, which I want to expand on somewhat. You don't really need to worry overmuch about scratching the mirror surface, it is front silvered, and so you are cleaning a metal surface. It will scratch or get cleaning marks if you rub hard enough, but by the time you've damaged the reflective surface, you will have knocked the mechanism so far out of whack that the camera will need a repair anyway. I reall do advise to just leave the mirror alone. It is the only moving part in the entire camera, and the components that actuate it are very precise and very fragile, and the fact is, nothing that gets on the mirror will affect the image, either viewfinder or actual, inless there is enough junk on it to shut down the camera entirely. If you are that neurotic about dust, see a psychiatrist, you have a problem that cleaning a camera won't solve.

12-21-2008, 10:47 AM	#21
dave sz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: carpentersville, IL Posts: 693	I have a 33gal compressor in the garage. Use it regularly to clean out all the dust in my custom PC. I'm gonna set it to a low PSI and try it on my camera. I'll need to buy or make some kind of a bypass to make sure all the moisture(once in a blue moon it does come out through the hose) is stopped before reaching the nozzle. This is just for the focus screen and mirror of course...

12-21-2008, 02:26 PM	#22
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by dave sz I have a 33gal compressor in the garage. Use it regularly to clean out all the dust in my custom PC. I'm gonna set it to a low PSI and try it on my camera. I'll need to buy or make some kind of a bypass to make sure all the moisture(once in a blue moon it does come out through the hose) is stopped before reaching the nozzle. This is just for the focus screen and mirror of course... Using a common compressor for blowing out dust is a recipe for disaster. Most real compressors are mixing oil intothe air stream, to lubricate their pumping parts and this will be distributed as a thin film right around the mirror box in your camera. Depending on the compressor, you may get away sometimes, even a couple of times without that oil fog, but sooner or later... This might be different with a small modeller's compressor, but I never used one of these, so I leave that up to somebody else's comment. A simple rubber rocket blower is easier, less noisy, saves energy and does the job. Ben

12-21-2008, 04:45 PM	#23
dave sz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: carpentersville, IL Posts: 693	I put the oil into the tools themselves, not the compressor, before every use. I've tested this before on glass and mirrors and have never seen any film...

12-21-2008, 10:18 PM	#24
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by dave sz I have a 33gal compressor in the garage. Use it regularly to clean out all the dust in my custom PC. I'm gonna set it to a low PSI and try it on my camera. I'll need to buy or make some kind of a bypass to make sure all the moisture(once in a blue moon it does come out through the hose) is stopped before reaching the nozzle. This is just for the focus screen and mirror of course... Noooooooo!!!!! Bad idea. You can't make it clean enough, and probably can't regulate the pressure low enough.

12-21-2008, 10:29 PM	#25
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Originally posted by dave sz I have a 33gal compressor in the garage. Use it regularly to clean out all the dust in my custom PC. I'm gonna set it to a low PSI and try it on my camera. I'll need to buy or make some kind of a bypass to make sure all the moisture(once in a blue moon it does come out through the hose) is stopped before reaching the nozzle. This is just for the focus screen and mirror of course... You're kidding right? Ben and WF are absolutely correct. Not only is the mirror very sensitive but you SHOULD NEVER use compressed air from any source. Ever. All I ever do is a gentle puff of air from the rocket blower. I have a small lens clean brush (never touched and kept in a zip lock bag) that has been used twice to remove stubborn dust. Otherwise left alone.

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12-26-2008, 03:28 PM	#26
grumgrummer New Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hobart ,Tasmania Posts: 2	It's a brave person who attempts to clean a surface-silvered mirror in a piece of precision equipment. I used to use this stuff in the flat glass industry for replacing broken rear-view mirrors on vehicles. All it needs to be damaged is the most miniscule bit of contaminant (dust) on the cleaning swab/rag ,and the surface is beyond repair. It was my pet hate in a factory situation. Even storing the stuff with protective layers between the sheets was a nightmare. My K200D has a small "stain" on its mirror, doesn't affect my view and doesn't show up on the picture. It can stay there!