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12-23-2008, 12:07 AM   #16
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QuoteQuote:
Post-processing *cannot* give you what averaging multiple exposures does. If you want that silky smooth waterfall shot then you must use long exposures and the averaging method makes this a cakewalk. You cannot replicate that look by stacking images. Mind you, if you just want to use the old additive stacking method, then fill your boots by turning averaging off and it is just like your and my old LX...only better.

Jack
Jack: I too need further assistance here. Are you saying I can use the K20d to get better long exposures on water shots if I use this "Multiple Exposure" feature? If so, could you please briefly describe how I would go about it. I have never used this feature on the K20d, and only just heard about it in this thread. I am very capable of getting silky waterfall shots with single long exposures though. Please, advise me how I can improve on waterfall shots using this multiple exposure method--thanks.

12-23-2008, 01:31 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
is there such a feature?

i was flipping through my MZ-S manual the other day and turns out i can expose the same frame (atleast twice, and i think infinetly IIRC)

intresting to know why our digital cameras dont have such a feature (unless i missed it somewhere in the manual)

The Z-1P has the feature, so likely the MZ-S will too.

(Many are really liking the feature on K10 and K20, as it can help in case you can't get slow enough shutter times, or don't have ND filters available :
Favourite Feature of the K10D - Multi-exposure (images): Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review)
12-23-2008, 01:33 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
The beauty of the averaging mode is that it still records all bits from all images in the series but instead of stacking all the exposures on top of each other and potentially blowing everything out, it averages out the total exposure to something that fits its given exposure settings. So next time you are at a waterfall, do the test for yourself:

1) A single long exposure as you normally would in non-averaging mode.

2) A series of multiple exposures divided into 9 separate exposures (time in Step 1 divided by 9) taken in non-averaging mode (good old stacking mode).

3) As in Step 2 but in averaging mode.

This should give you a feel for its strengths and weaknesses. You can adjust the number of multiple exposures from 2 to 9 images in the K10 and K20.

Jack
I am intrigued by this technique you describe. Do you have any examples to illustrate the difference between the methods? I can't help but think that perfect registration would be quite difficult using the multiple exposure method.
12-23-2008, 02:17 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
I am intrigued by this technique you describe. Do you have any examples to illustrate the difference between the methods? I can't help but think that perfect registration would be quite difficult using the multiple exposure method.
I only had time to play with it a bit this past summer but haven't got the pix up yet anywhere. And yes, the images must obey the laws of physics so any changes such as leaves moving, etc., will be recorded. So anything that moves will be recorded as moving while static features remain rock solid. Mind you, this is tripod work by definition.

Jack

12-23-2008, 02:54 AM   #20
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Here is a Flickr photoset showing the results you can get using the K10D and K20D "auto EV adjust" setting in the ME mode:

Multiple Exposures - a set on Flickr

They are by Aussie pentaxian Craig Jewell.

Jack
12-23-2008, 05:08 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
What setting is this? I have a K20D but I am sure there is no such setting on either camera.

EDIT: Well, I must say... I was totally surprised to find this feature on the K20D. It is under REC mode menu, Multiple exposures (you set the number of multiple exposures and whether or not averaging should be done). Now, it's that cool! :-)

Still, I think I would rather do multiple exposure work from Photoshop.... but it's there after all. Can anyone confirm if this is unique to certain Pentax cameras or is this available on other cameras as well? This is the first time I have seen this feature on a digital camera.

See Page 103 of the K20D manual...

Yes, at least the one or the other Nikon pro modell has this feature, but it is very rare indeed.

Ben
12-23-2008, 05:12 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
The Z-1P has the feature, so likely the MZ-S will too.

(Many are really liking the feature on K10 and K20, as it can help in case you can't get slow enough shutter times, or don't have ND filters available :
Favourite Feature of the K10D - Multi-exposure (images): Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review)
Almost ALL film cameras can take multiple expsoures. The most basic way with manual film advance is, to simply disengage the film transport while turning the film advance level (press the rewind switch on the base plate of the camera) and holding the rewind lever tight. More advanced cameras have a separate switch (the standard with mediium format cameras) and some have such good mechanics (Pentax LX, Nikon F3 etc.), that there is no need to hold the rewind lever.

As the film transport is disengaged registration is spot on.

Film cameras with built-in motror drive have usually a separate setting (button) for multiple expsoures.

Ben
12-23-2008, 09:46 AM   #23
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There was a thread a while back (last spring or summer maybe) that described the whole waterfall shot with a few examples.

I think most would tell you though that you should go the 1 long exposure route first. The multiple exposure from my point of view does not give as silky or smooth of an image as one long exposure would depending on what the settings for each individual image are.

It seems that the multi-exposure method would only really be useful if you 1. don't have a tripod and need a faster shutter speed, and 2. too slow of a shutter speed would blow out the image (and you don't have a ND or other filter to help).

12-23-2008, 12:42 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by emalvick Quote
There was a thread a while back (last spring or summer maybe) that described the whole waterfall shot with a few examples.

I think most would tell you though that you should go the 1 long exposure route first. The multiple exposure from my point of view does not give as silky or smooth of an image as one long exposure would depending on what the settings for each individual image are.

It seems that the multi-exposure method would only really be useful if you 1. don't have a tripod and need a faster shutter speed, and 2. too slow of a shutter speed would blow out the image (and you don't have a ND or other filter to help).
And 3. If you want/need to keep the noise level of each individual shot under control since sensor noise increases with length of exposure.

I agree, people will have to experiment to see which method works best in different situations. But the options are there.

Jack
12-23-2008, 01:06 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
Here is a Flickr photoset showing the results you can get using the K10D and K20D "auto EV adjust" setting in the ME mode:

Multiple Exposures - a set on Flickr

They are by Aussie pentaxian Craig Jewell.

Jack
Nice photos, kind of like doing HDR right inside the camera. I will have to try this technique and nice to know the K20D is able to do this.

In a word, way COOL!



Thanks to those who made me aware of this.
12-23-2008, 01:35 PM   #26
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K10 & 20D do great job with multiple exposures. Use the 9 shot a lot to reduce noise in pic. Yes, it can be done in PS, but my the trouble and time required.
The much (dis)cussed Nikon D40 does ME in a different way! You can take any two pics you have shot and combine them in camera! Amazing for such a featureless camera. Even does with raw shots. Hope this is added to our cameras. This allows ME like the LX.
thanks
barondla

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