[kenyee]

Also, in my long experience, yacht owners both "on the dock" and on-line lack the personal identification with a company and brand that seems to grip so many camera enthusiasts

But different for fishing boats...e.g., prokat owners seem to gripe about manufacturing problems, etc.

[stevebrot]

They do, but their complaints are sharper, their arguments have more contrast, and their resolution is unparalleled compare to lowly Pentaxians.

Ohhh...GOOD...VERY GOOD!







Steve

(Probably more clarity in reasoning too...)

[Sailor]

Ohhh...GOOD...VERY GOOD!

Steve

(Probably more clarity in reasoning too...)

But they've paid a big price - they've all had to go to "L".

Jer

[stevebrot]

Depends on a model. Like here as well. Believe it or not most of us complain for a reason.
If you've been around long enough you already noticed. Very little complains for istDS or k20D for example, a lot for K10D, no complains for DA* 50-135 a lot for DA* 16-50, etc.

Ummm...I think that if you polled, you would find that the model-specific complaints even out a little when you consider who owns what. I may be wrong, but my impression has been that the larger number of users on this site have K100D and K10D cameras. The K200D and K20D contingent is growing and there is a small, but loyal group of *istD users as well. (I think that it is safe to state that user satisfaction is ALWAYS high for continuing users of older cameras.)

As for complaints about the K20D...I was very surprised to see a flurry of these in the last few weeks. I guess as the user base grows, so does the potential for picky users.

One thing is a given. You seldom hear complaints about the less expensive models.

Steve

(Quite happy with my camera...no complaints thus far...and I am picky!)

BTW...Rice High's original complaints were with the *istD (I forget which model)...

[Isaac314]

i tried a friends' canon 450d and a nikon d80 at the weekend (i think they are the same price range as the k20d).

The d80 was hard to use and when its owner took one shot with my k20d she said "wow, that was really fun", the 450d felt small and very cheap in my hands and the viewfinder was like looking like a very very dark well. Even with a 1.8 lens. "Functionally" they are ok cameras, but they are just no good in my opinion...

The experience has definitely put my mind at rest.

[er1kksen]

I'm really having a hard time comprehending the tone of sarcasm I detect here regarding Pentax's decision to release a white camera body. Clearly, this is a highly considered strategy to reduce the amount of heat absorbed by the camera body when used in sunny conditions, thereby cooling the sensor and reducing image noise. Whether or not it's fashionable is clearly irrelevant.

The REAL concern here is the fact that pentax clearly ignored the reasoning that in the hot afternoon sun, the conditions in which the white body is most useful, high ISOs and long shutter speeds are rendered wholly unnecessary and noise becomes a moot point! If they were really thinking they would have incorporated a circulating-fluid cooling system to reduce heat inside the camera, complete with adjustable tubes and an external ice pack.

[séamuis]

I'm really having a hard time comprehending the tone of sarcasm I detect here regarding Pentax's decision to release a white camera body. Clearly, this is a highly considered strategy to reduce the amount of heat absorbed by the camera body when used in sunny conditions, thereby cooling the sensor and reducing image noise. Whether or not it's fashionable is clearly irrelevant.

The REAL concern here is the fact that pentax clearly ignored the reasoning that in the hot afternoon sun, the conditions in which the white body is most useful, high ISOs and long shutter speeds are rendered wholly unnecessary and noise becomes a moot point! If they were really thinking they would have incorporated a circulating-fluid cooling system to reduce heat inside the camera, complete with adjustable tubes and an external ice pack.

'I'm really having a hard time comprehending the tone of sarcasm I detect here.'

[Mountain Vision]

Ummm...I think that if you polled, you would find that the model-specific complaints even out a little when you consider who owns what. I may be wrong, but my impression has been that the larger number of users on this site have K100D and K10D cameras. The K200D and K20D contingent is growing and there is a small, but loyal group of *istD users as well. (I think that it is safe to state that user satisfaction is ALWAYS high for continuing users of older cameras.)

As for complaints about the K20D...I was very surprised to see a flurry of these in the last few weeks. I guess as the user base grows, so does the potential for picky users.

One thing is a given. You seldom hear complaints about the less expensive models.

Steve

(Quite happy with my camera...no complaints thus far...and I am picky!)

BTW...Rice High's original complaints were with the *istD (I forget which model)...

I own an original D and have had no problems with it. It's 5 years old, 3 of them in my hands, the prior 2 I don't think it was used (LN-) as it was in the box seemingly brand new.

The problems arise when a small group of people, the core pentax community, start seeing an influx of newbies. I saw this with the K10D, many people bought the camera solely for the value, but ALWAYS had a feeling they made the wrong choice, even before they could prove it either way.

Some of them openly admit only to buying a Pentax because they couldn't afford what they really wanted, but the fact is they are the biggest complainers.

Then you have people with legit complaints, who like the brand for lots of reasons, and then you have people who mostly want to see a few features added to the next model.

Believe me when I say, Canon and Nikon have quite a few fierce loyalist (fanboys) that are their core sales group. Since Canon and Nikon cameras are similarly priced and tiered, there is less remorse for buying one over the other, but I've found there are more people in those groups focused more on the technology than the photography.

I find Pentax shooters interested in the technology, but aware that there is a process to creating a good image that goes beyond pulling out the credit card and buying a new camera!

As for complaints about the K20D...I was very surprised to see a flurry of these in the last few weeks. I guess as the user base grows, so does the potential for picky users.

Steve

(Quite happy with my camera...no complaints thus far...and I am picky!)

OUch Steve, it hurts to be now just a "picky user"... just another one of the new members of the ever increasing user base who is just too picky. Man, if they would have just kept the price at $1200, we would not be getting all of us riff raff, nanzy panzy nit pickers showing up and complaining.
I am truly glad you got a good one.
And thank you, I feel so darn good about myself and the forum right now.

P.s. thanks for the help you gave to Rich and I in our threads, it was very helpful.

[8540tomg]

I’m not sure if Canikon owners complain more or less than Pentaxians or not but many camera owners in all camps seem to spend more time grumbling about their cameras than using them.

Interesting that Pentax is coming out with a white camera body. Looks like a good idea from a marketing standpoint alone. Apple has used a similar “colour” strategy to successfully market its computers. I think they “look” a lot more attractive than anything the competition puts out never mind what might be inside the box. If this marketing strategy sells more cameras for Pentax than good for them. The competition in the DSLR is vicious and it might give Pentax an edge. It doesn’t won’t work for me personally as I’m a traditionalist and think the black bodied K10/20 just look better. As I don’t spend much time taking pictures under the desert sun any small advantage a white body might provide is a moot point anyway.

Tom G

[ll_coffee_lP]

'I'm really having a hard time comprehending the tone of sarcasm I detect here.'

He he...



c[_]

[ll_coffee_lP]

They do, but their complaints are sharper, their arguments have more contrast, and their resolution is unparalleled compare to lowly Pentaxians.

Thread winning post right there.

c[_]

[er1kksen]

'i'm really having a hard time comprehending the tone of sarcasm i detect here.'

[navcom]

I have a K20D, a K10D, and an *istDL, and love them all. I have had zero issues with any of them, other than my own ignorance...which is bliss BTW.

Just thinking about it, probably the reason people complain on this forum, especially newbies, is because they were one of the few who had a problem and then because of it, they sought out a forum that would help them solve it.

Naturally, a forum like this one is an excellent place to discuss and solve any problems you are having with a Pentax camera. Likewise for Canikon on the other forums. The idea that this or that camera or lens has a problem because people here are complaining is naturally skewed because this is the natural place to find answers to problems.

Conclusion? There are just too many damn smart people on this forum for it's own good.

[Big Dave]

We need a forum just for pissing and moaning. Then those of us that have questions and solutions etc won't have to put up with the all of the complaining.

Dave