so do Canikon owners piss and moan as much too?

nostatic · 12-24-2008, 01:23 PM

After having suffered through many a battle and b&m session on various forums for well over a decade, I think you can break the piss and moan types into a couple of basic groups:

1. Newbies who are two lazy/impatient to rtfm and want instant answers.

2. Crotchety old users who insist that the best camera ever made was the Such-and-such Promaster 4000 and everything since has been a decline into an equipment (and moral) cesspool.

3. Idiots. Some people are just not very bright and frankly shouldn't own complicated devices. Often hard to tell the difference between this and #1 though.

4. Pot stirrers and gear freaks. They don't actually shoot pictures (other than brick walls) but rather own cameras to impress friends and more importantly, slather over Canon while slagging Pentax under a veneer of impartiality.

5. People who are drunk. Note that #5 can be applied to 1-4 as well.

6. People who actually have a legitimate problem or miss a particular feature that is important to them.

The problem is that most think they are #6 when in fact they are one of the other ones. As for me, it is after noon, I'm on vacation, so I'm going to have a drink and strive towards #5

**Sailor** · 12-24-2008, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by nostatic

After having suffered through many a battle and b&m session on various forums for well over a decade, I think you can break the piss and moan types into a couple of basic groups:

5. People who are drunk. Note that #5 can be applied to 1-4 as well.

Are you trying to make me feel guilty?

Jer

nostatic · 12-24-2008, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Sailor

Are you trying to make me feel guilty?

Jer

no, I'm hoping you'll join me in a toast

Peter Zack · 12-24-2008, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Big Dave

We need a forum just for pissing and moaning. Then those of us that have questions and solutions etc won't have to put up with the all of the complaining.

Dave

Maybe that should be my "First Official Duty". Start a pissing and moaning forum that is closed and by invitation only. If you are a really good whiner, bitcher and complainer, you get in. 2000 word piss 'n moan essay will get you admission.

madisonphotogrl · 12-24-2008, 01:53 PM

I think people expect the camera to do everything for them, even take good pictures. It is a camera that needs a human operator. It can't do it all!! Any piece of electronic equipment can have quality issues. Some people recognize the issues and take advantages of the manufactures warranty and some buy the newest model.

Das Boot · 12-24-2008, 02:12 PM

I currently have a K200d and used to have a K110d. The only camera that I was ever marked by was my sister-in-law's D40. It's extremely tiny. It's almost a P&S! The only feature I'm envious of is the 1/500 flash sync. The expensive glass, lack of automatic bracketing, and DOF preview are turn offs though. Comparable Canons feel like cheap plastic toys.

-Brian

séamuis · 12-24-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

I think people expect the camera to do everything for them, even take good pictures.

particularly the upgrading P&S people.

stevebrot · 12-24-2008, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Igilligan

OUch Steve, it hurts to be now just a "picky user"... just another one of the new members of the ever increasing user base who is just too picky. Man, if they would have just kept the price at $1200, we would not be getting all of us riff raff, nanzy panzy nit pickers showing up and complaining.
I am truly glad you got a good one.
And thank you, I feel so darn good about myself and the forum right now.

Sorry, no intent to offend

. I don't remember the type of problems you have had, but you can be sure that I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who ends up with a lemon. They exist, that is for sure and my expectation is that Pentax should make every effort to repair/replace in a timely manner when that happens.

Incidence of manufacturing defect for dSLRs is somewhere around 3-5% (per Consumers Union survey). So it only makes sense that a larger user-base on this forum will result in more reported issues. As for those that "piss and groan"...I would expect that type of post to be proportional as well.

All I was trying to say is that the number of complaints is proportional to the ownership spread.

Quote:

P.s. thanks for the help you gave to Rich and I in our threads, it was very helpful.

I am not quite sure what you mean, but if I was helpful, it was my pleasure

Steve

BTW...Your continuing and supportive contributions to this forum are MUCH appreciated.

séamuis · 12-24-2008, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

Maybe that should be my "First Official Duty". Start a pissing and moaning forum that is closed and by invitation only. If you are a really good whiner, bitcher and complainer, you get in. 2000 word piss 'n moan essay will get you admission.

ricehigh can moderate this forum.

Jasvox · 12-24-2008, 02:42 PM

Yes, it's the same on practically any name brand related forum, regardless of the item or industry. I think boards are breeding grounds for pedantics who choose to blame their shortcomings on the limitations of the gear, or an excuse for user error.

On occasion, there is a real value and education to web boards/forums, but all too often it's a medium to vent, battle, boast and bicker.

I do love coming here for useful info though!!

Jason

djayvo · 12-24-2008, 02:54 PM

I’m enjoying my new camera too much to complain, I figure any fault of the camera is still my own.

Haakan · 12-24-2008, 04:11 PM

While I do not know much about the moanings on other forums, it seems that Pentax users rate their gear higher that Canikon users. User rating data (overall scores) are from dpreview:

K20D: 4.70
K200D: 4.58
K10D: 4.78

EOS 5D mark II: 4.38
EOS 50D: 4.18
EOS 450D: 4.23

D80: 4.56
D300: 4.53

Haakan

Kirivon · 12-25-2008, 05:06 AM

I've seen way worse complaints on the Canon side of things than I ever saw here.

When Canon tried to defend its reuse of the original 5d's AF module in the 5dmk2, I read some comments labeling the Canon management as liars and incompetents. Then there's the whole black dot issue.

There's complaints about the 50mm f/1.2 L's tendency to front focus, resulting in accusations that the design was defective from the factory. I've also heard complaints about the 24-70 f/2.8 having a lot of soft copies.

Finally there's the drama regarding the 1Dsmk3 and defective units. There was some guy who put banners all over his car that were to the effect of, the 1Dsmk3 is a piece of garbage.

séamuis · 12-25-2008, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Kirivon

I've seen way worse complaints on the Canon side of things than I ever saw here.

When Canon tried to defend its reuse of the original 5d's AF module in the 5dmk2, I read some comments labeling the Canon management as liars and incompetents. Then there's the whole black dot issue.

There's complaints about the 50mm f/1.2 L's tendency to front focus, resulting in accusations that the design was defective from the factory. I've also heard complaints about the 24-70 f/2.8 having a lot of soft copies.

Finally there's the drama regarding the 1Dsmk3 and defective units. There was some guy who put banners all over his car that were to the effect of, the 1Dsmk3 is a piece of garbage.

wow. talk about ridiculous excess. those canon boys make some of us look like saints.

Big Dave · 12-25-2008, 08:15 AM

Haakan,
If you paid as much for your equipment as they did, you would expect much more too. I think that the great value for the money, makes Pentax ratings higher as a result.

Dave

Originally posted by Haakan

While I do not know much about the moanings on other forums, it seems that Pentax users rate their gear higher that Canikon users. User rating data (overall scores) are from dpreview:

K20D: 4.70
K200D: 4.58
K10D: 4.78

EOS 5D mark II: 4.38
EOS 50D: 4.18
EOS 450D: 4.23

D80: 4.56
D300: 4.53

Haakan

12-24-2008, 02:54 PM	#41
djayvo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 86	Totally enjoying my K200D I’m enjoying my new camera too much to complain, I figure any fault of the camera is still my own.

12-24-2008, 04:11 PM	#42
Haakan Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 182	Still Pentax SLR has highest user ratings While I do not know much about the moanings on other forums, it seems that Pentax users rate their gear higher that Canikon users. User rating data (overall scores) are from dpreview: K20D: 4.70 K200D: 4.58 K10D: 4.78 EOS 5D mark II: 4.38 EOS 50D: 4.18 EOS 450D: 4.23 D80: 4.56 D300: 4.53 Haakan

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12-24-2008, 01:23 PM	#31
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575 Original Poster	After having suffered through many a battle and b&m session on various forums for well over a decade, I think you can break the piss and moan types into a couple of basic groups: 1. Newbies who are two lazy/impatient to rtfm and want instant answers. 2. Crotchety old users who insist that the best camera ever made was the Such-and-such Promaster 4000 and everything since has been a decline into an equipment (and moral) cesspool. 3. Idiots. Some people are just not very bright and frankly shouldn't own complicated devices. Often hard to tell the difference between this and #1 though. 4. Pot stirrers and gear freaks. They don't actually shoot pictures (other than brick walls) but rather own cameras to impress friends and more importantly, slather over Canon while slagging Pentax under a veneer of impartiality. 5. People who are drunk. Note that #5 can be applied to 1-4 as well. 6. People who actually have a legitimate problem or miss a particular feature that is important to them. The problem is that most think they are #6 when in fact they are one of the other ones. As for me, it is after noon, I'm on vacation, so I'm going to have a drink and strive towards #5

12-24-2008, 01:38 PM	#32
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,203	Originally posted by nostatic After having suffered through many a battle and b&m session on various forums for well over a decade, I think you can break the piss and moan types into a couple of basic groups: 5. People who are drunk. Note that #5 can be applied to 1-4 as well. Are you trying to make me feel guilty? Jer

12-24-2008, 01:41 PM	#33
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575 Original Poster	Originally posted by Sailor Are you trying to make me feel guilty? Jer no, I'm hoping you'll join me in a toast

12-24-2008, 01:48 PM	#34
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Originally posted by Big Dave We need a forum just for pissing and moaning. Then those of us that have questions and solutions etc won't have to put up with the all of the complaining. Dave Maybe that should be my "First Official Duty". Start a pissing and moaning forum that is closed and by invitation only. If you are a really good whiner, bitcher and complainer, you get in. 2000 word piss 'n moan essay will get you admission.

12-24-2008, 01:53 PM	#35
madisonphotogrl Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 270	I think people expect the camera to do everything for them, even take good pictures. It is a camera that needs a human operator. It can't do it all!! Any piece of electronic equipment can have quality issues. Some people recognize the issues and take advantages of the manufactures warranty and some buy the newest model.

12-24-2008, 02:12 PM	#36
Das Boot Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sparkle City, South Cackalacky Photos: Gallery Posts: 689	I currently have a K200d and used to have a K110d. The only camera that I was ever marked by was my sister-in-law's D40. It's extremely tiny. It's almost a P&S! The only feature I'm envious of is the 1/500 flash sync. The expensive glass, lack of automatic bracketing, and DOF preview are turn offs though. Comparable Canons feel like cheap plastic toys. -Brian

12-24-2008, 02:13 PM	#37
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Quote: I think people expect the camera to do everything for them, even take good pictures. particularly the upgrading P&S people.

12-24-2008, 02:17 PM	#38
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Igilligan OUch Steve, it hurts to be now just a "picky user"... just another one of the new members of the ever increasing user base who is just too picky. Man, if they would have just kept the price at $1200, we would not be getting all of us riff raff, nanzy panzy nit pickers showing up and complaining. I am truly glad you got a good one. And thank you, I feel so darn good about myself and the forum right now. Sorry, no intent to offend . I don't remember the type of problems you have had, but you can be sure that I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who ends up with a lemon. They exist, that is for sure and my expectation is that Pentax should make every effort to repair/replace in a timely manner when that happens. Incidence of manufacturing defect for dSLRs is somewhere around 3-5% (per Consumers Union survey). So it only makes sense that a larger user-base on this forum will result in more reported issues. As for those that "piss and groan"...I would expect that type of post to be proportional as well. All I was trying to say is that the number of complaints is proportional to the ownership spread. Quote: P.s. thanks for the help you gave to Rich and I in our threads, it was very helpful. I am not quite sure what you mean, but if I was helpful, it was my pleasure Steve BTW...Your continuing and supportive contributions to this forum are MUCH appreciated.

12-24-2008, 02:26 PM	#39
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Peter Zack Maybe that should be my "First Official Duty". Start a pissing and moaning forum that is closed and by invitation only. If you are a really good whiner, bitcher and complainer, you get in. 2000 word piss 'n moan essay will get you admission. ricehigh can moderate this forum.

12-24-2008, 02:42 PM	#40
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	Yes, it's the same on practically any name brand related forum, regardless of the item or industry. I think boards are breeding grounds for pedantics who choose to blame their shortcomings on the limitations of the gear, or an excuse for user error. On occasion, there is a real value and education to web boards/forums, but all too often it's a medium to vent, battle, boast and bicker. I do love coming here for useful info though!! Jason

12-25-2008, 05:06 AM	#43
Kirivon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 173	I've seen way worse complaints on the Canon side of things than I ever saw here. When Canon tried to defend its reuse of the original 5d's AF module in the 5dmk2, I read some comments labeling the Canon management as liars and incompetents. Then there's the whole black dot issue. There's complaints about the 50mm f/1.2 L's tendency to front focus, resulting in accusations that the design was defective from the factory. I've also heard complaints about the 24-70 f/2.8 having a lot of soft copies. Finally there's the drama regarding the 1Dsmk3 and defective units. There was some guy who put banners all over his car that were to the effect of, the 1Dsmk3 is a piece of garbage.

12-25-2008, 07:34 AM	#44
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Kirivon I've seen way worse complaints on the Canon side of things than I ever saw here. When Canon tried to defend its reuse of the original 5d's AF module in the 5dmk2, I read some comments labeling the Canon management as liars and incompetents. Then there's the whole black dot issue. There's complaints about the 50mm f/1.2 L's tendency to front focus, resulting in accusations that the design was defective from the factory. I've also heard complaints about the 24-70 f/2.8 having a lot of soft copies. Finally there's the drama regarding the 1Dsmk3 and defective units. There was some guy who put banners all over his car that were to the effect of, the 1Dsmk3 is a piece of garbage. wow. talk about ridiculous excess. those canon boys make some of us look like saints.

12-25-2008, 08:15 AM	#45
Big Dave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Antonio, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 547	Haakan, If you paid as much for your equipment as they did, you would expect much more too. I think that the great value for the money, makes Pentax ratings higher as a result. Dave Originally posted by Haakan While I do not know much about the moanings on other forums, it seems that Pentax users rate their gear higher that Canikon users. User rating data (overall scores) are from dpreview: K20D: 4.70 K200D: 4.58 K10D: 4.78 EOS 5D mark II: 4.38 EOS 50D: 4.18 EOS 450D: 4.23 D80: 4.56 D300: 4.53 Haakan