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12-23-2008, 05:57 PM   #1
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New K20D doesn't seem as sharp as my old K10D... AF adjustment needed?

Well to cut a long story short my new K20D which I recieved today just doesn't seem as sharp as the old K10D it replaced. I took some test shots using a few lenses using flash and the images just seemed very soft and slightly blurry... I took pics of the same things using my dads K10D and the same lenses and they came out pin sharp with greater focus range at 20mm. I also checked the menu settings and can't see any difference barring the K20D being set to max resolution and **** quality JPEG's. SR is also on.

I heard the K20D can do global AF adjustment and I found the setting in the C section of the menus... but any tips to using this, and what I should be looking for?

I'm sure i'm not imagining things with this (my dad says he can't notice any difference, but then again as much as I love him sometimes I feel he wouldn't notice if my nose fell off in front of him) and if anyone has any similar experience with their K20D then i'd love to hear about it, as at the moment i'm feeling a bit dissappointed with the performance i'm seeing...

Thanks in advance,

Rich.

12-23-2008, 07:56 PM   #2
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As always in such situations, some sample images - with information about what lens, aperture, and shutter speed you used. Sure, it's possible the focus needs adjustment, but it's just as likely you just happened to choose a subject where the camera disagreed with you about what to focus on. Or your K20D is now outresolving your lenses when your K10D did not. Or lots of other possibilities.
12-23-2008, 08:10 PM   #3
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look here ...
Digital Photography - RawWorkflow.com - LensAlign?

and watch the video here...
http://67.19.183.190/videos/LensAlign.mov
12-23-2008, 08:58 PM   #4
Igilligan
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I feel your pain

I have just got mine and I am having the same issue you are describing. My K100 is tack sharp with a lot of my lenses and the new K20 is a softy with the same lenses.

So I believe what you are seeing. I personally dont need to see any pics. I have shot 200 test shots of various items, and it is definately the camera. I doubt it is out resolving my DA 40 Or any of my MF taks. The only sharp shots I have got are with sharp MF glass like the series 1 vivitar. If it has AF it struggles. The best AF I actually got was with the DA50-200... but my sharp as a tack tamron 28-75 is struggling.

Like you I just need to hear more of the global focus adjust and how and what I should be focusing on to attempt it.

To add even a little more frustration... I ended up with a bunch of dead/stuck pixels on mine too.
Here is one where the focus is ok (MF vivitar series 1 90mm) but you can see the hot pixels... hard to tell at this small resize, but there are actually 10 here in this center crop.


Please PM me if you find info or help outside on your thread on the best way to focus adjust... and I will do the same. The manual is very limited on explaining the best way to do it.

12-23-2008, 09:14 PM   #5
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Gus,

Which store you buy it from? Do they have a return policy and please watch the policy for number of days after delivery? I can certainly understand your frustrations. It is absolute no fun to get a lemon.

Thanks,
Hin
12-23-2008, 09:26 PM   #6
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Rich & Gus

I believe the best way to make AF adjustments is to take/send your camera + lenses into Pentax. They know how to make the AF adjustments...they have the correct charts, tools and techs to get the job done right. I just recently sent my kit in for adjustments and the improvement in sharpness is VERY noticeable. The service report read "dismantled unit, adjusted body depth to suit all lenses"...I know that's something I can't do myself or any chart on the internet. The tech also adjusted a few of the lenses via the custom menu option. In the furtue I'll take my camera + any new lens purchased, into Pentax and let them make the adjustments needed. All covered by warranty and only 48hrs for Pentax to complete the job.

By the way congrats on the new camera, guys. It is a great camera & fantastic when AF is spot on.
12-24-2008, 04:33 AM   #7
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Ok I just did a LOT of testing outside in my garden and I definately think there is a problem with the AF on this camera... i'm not saying it's catastrophic, but it's definately there... it just doesn't "feel" or look 100% right. I took some snaps of some basic and easily focussable objects and around 4/10 images were coming back very soft and a bi tout of focus, even on portrait shots, which was where the K10D excelled. I switched to manual focussing qith the K20D and did it myself and they came out tack sharp, just as they should be.

My old K10D was almost as sharp as manual in 99% of situations when using AF and the exact same lens, so this leads me to believe that something is a little wrong with the body I have. I'm dropping into Park Cameras today to get it looked at, preferably swapped seeing as im back off to Switzerland in a week or so.

QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
I have just got mine and I am having the same issue you are describing. My K100 is tack sharp with a lot of my lenses and the new K20 is a softy with the same lenses.

So I believe what you are seeing. I personally dont need to see any pics. I have shot 200 test shots of various items, and it is definately the camera. I doubt it is out resolving my DA 40 Or any of my MF taks. The only sharp shots I have got are with sharp MF glass like the series 1 vivitar. If it has AF it struggles. The best AF I actually got was with the DA50-200... but my sharp as a tack tamron 28-75 is struggling.

Like you I just need to hear more of the global focus adjust and how and what I should be focusing on to attempt it.

To add even a little more frustration... I ended up with a bunch of dead/stuck pixels on mine too.
Here is one where the focus is ok (MF vivitar series 1 90mm) but you can see the hot pixels... hard to tell at this small resize, but there are actually 10 here in this center crop.

Please PM me if you find info or help outside on your thread on the best way to focus adjust... and I will do the same. The manual is very limited on explaining the best way to do it.
Hi Igilligan, luckily I haven't noticed any hot pixels yet but your focussing issue does sound a bit suspect, especially since we KNOW what trhese cameras are capable of! It should not be performing the skightest bit worse as an inferior camera such as the K100, this is obvious. How long ago did you purchase it? If I were you i'd go back to where you bought it and talk this through, and test some more bodies with the same lenses if you're physically able to. If not, send it back for arepair, or a full refund if need be and simply buy another. You know when a cameras not right, and with the money you pay there's no reason to stand for it.
12-24-2008, 05:43 AM   #8
Igilligan
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hey Rich

Rich, That is what I found today also. If I manually focused I could usually get a sharp shot. And when I did get the shot sharp, wow I think I like what this sensor can do... but the AF was missing focus on even my sharpest lenses.

Please let me know what you find out.





ISO 3200 even looked ok...




12-24-2008, 06:13 AM   #9
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You didn't answer... how long have you had the camera and are you able to return it for testing/replacement?
12-24-2008, 09:36 AM   #10
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Gus,

A silly question. What focus mode are you using? There is a dial on the back of K10D/K20D for selective center, center and multiple ones. The camera decides for you on the multiple ones, and I seldom use that one except in AF.C with moving objects. I exclusively use the selective one and place focal point in center.

I found AF almost the same in K20D and K10D. They should be a bit better than the K100D. K20D is much improved in the physical noise of the shutter. And the good surprise comes from improved AF in the dark, I seem to be able to lock AF easier in the dark and I find less hunting in general.

I never find the need to do focus chart testing. Perhaps, you should make an exception and use some objective measurement to see how much you are off with the sharpest lens that you have. Now the sarcastic humor, maybe you have been using all the manual focus lens that you forget how to use AF in Pentax. You are going to kill me on this

Dude, I know you are frustrated. It will be wasting time if you have a lemon. Objective testing on a focus chart will help you. I will suggest the focus chart testing to confirm the issues and return it for an exchange; otherwise, your holiday may be ruined by all the negative emotions in finding faults with your camera.
12-24-2008, 09:42 AM   #11
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One thing that might help is to crank the in-camera sharpening, if you're trying to compare things by the screen in Jpegs: my initial experience was that I thought I had focus errors, too, till I did that: then I remembered they said in DPreview that the default sharpening on the K20 was pretty soft, on the presumption typical users would be doing their own post all the time.

Baddabing, things look orders of magnitude better. Also it's easier to gauge how well the AF is hitting.


(And I'm not sure how that accounts for getting better results with MF, unless you're compensating in some way, mind you, but I did spent a few hours being seriously discontented with the sharpness I was not-seeing on the LCD, and sounding to myself a lot like your initial comment: I've still got a tendency to treat such a view as though I were looking at a neg or slide: where either it's sharp or not. )

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 12-24-2008 at 09:55 AM. Reason: typo :)
12-24-2008, 10:14 AM   #12
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Which reminds me of an important fact.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
One thing that might help is to crank the in-camera sharpening, if you're trying to compare things by the screen in Jpegs: my initial experience was that I thought I had focus errors, too, till I did that: then I remembered they said in DPreview that the default sharpening on the K20 was pretty soft, on the presumption typical users would be doing their own post all the time.

Baddabing, things look orders of magnitude better. Also it's easier to gauge how well the AF is hitting.


(And I'm not sure how that accounts for getting better results with MF, unless you're compensating in some way, mind you, but I did spent a few hours being seriously discontented with the sharpness I was not-seeing on the LCD, and sounding to myself a lot like your initial comment: I've still got a tendency to treat such a view as though I were looking at a neg or slide: where either it's sharp or not. )
Though it may not apply here BUT the k20 has a stronger AA filter (currently only an assumption) which will make images (identical images) appear a bit softer than the K10 (which has an unbalanced AA filter. Weak or non-exitant in one plane, stronger in the other). A bit of PP sharpening and they should be equal..
12-24-2008, 02:03 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by dazman Quote
Rich & Gus

I believe the best way to make AF adjustments is to take/send your camera + lenses into Pentax. They know how to make the AF adjustments...they have the correct charts, tools and techs to get the job done right. I just recently sent my kit in for adjustments and the improvement in sharpness is VERY noticeable. The service report read "dismantled unit, adjusted body depth to suit all lenses"...I know that's something I can't do myself or any chart on the internet. The tech also adjusted a few of the lenses via the custom menu option. In the furtue I'll take my camera + any new lens purchased, into Pentax and let them make the adjustments needed. All covered by warranty and only 48hrs for Pentax to complete the job.

By the way congrats on the new camera, guys. It is a great camera & fantastic when AF is spot on.

Dazeman.
I had emailed pentax support about possible ff on my K10D and they wanted me to do the test charts before anything else. How did you get them to look at you camera without it?
12-24-2008, 06:40 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by madisonphotogrl Quote
Dazeman.
I had emailed pentax support about possible ff on my K10D and they wanted me to do the test charts before anything else. How did you get them to look at you camera without it?
I called them, said I had an issue with AF and made a time to drop them off. Simple.

When I was at the service center I spoke to the manager regarding the focus charts and methods for testing AF FF/BF. This is what they said...They didn't recommend test charts on the internet. They use different charts and calculations specific to each lens for testing.

I had tried the online focus charts and could never get the AF sharp, so decided to let Pentax investigate. After taking my camera into Pentax for adjustments, I now know the charts would never worked for my camera. The problem needed a technician to "dismantle unit, adjust body depth to suit all lenses", which indicates that something (?) in the body was not aligned correctly and the custom setting AF adjustments would never fix the problem.

I would like to see Pentax release a method for testing that we can use. Why have the adjustment option on the K20D, without an approved Pentax method for testing? Until that happens, I'm more than happy to take my kit in for testing & adjustments, as the results are spot on AF.
12-25-2008, 05:41 AM   #15
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I had a focus error that I was blaming myself/glass for and found out that my lenses were a few steps off. Even my kit 18-80 was off 2 steps, with my 105-300 tamron off by 7 steps. Not hard to do, just takes about 10 minutes per lens
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