[ramseybuckeye]

A James Popsys YouTube video encouraged me to post this. I had been thinking about it, but it was difficult to condense it into a reasonable post. Popsys discussed a new Sony upgrade and how the bells and whistles were taking the challenge out of photography. As I cannot afford a $4K camera and lenses at half that price his particulars were somewhat not applicable. What I have been mulling over started with the periodic discussions about the next Pentax Camera model. These discussions tend toward more complex cameras. I found myself thinking in the opposite direction and that I might be a minority of one. What do I use most on the KP? I shoot RAW almost always in manual as the extra wheel allow changing the ISO. I use the timer often. I prefer back-button focus. I have played with pixel shift and the truth is I have neglected it and probably should not. I can usually produce something in post that is acceptable.

What do I want in the new model? Simplicity and maybe a port to attach a coffee maker. Start with a sensor, shutter, and all the things I don't understand to just give me tack sharp images, if I do everything right on my end of the bargain. Shake mitigation is nice as is auto-focus, a balance toward my advancing age. I understand my landscape preference might exclude features that are important to other genres and i am doubtful if my simple designs would have an effect on the price.

Anyway, what do you think about the direction of camera design?

I shoot much like you do and the KP does the things I need. I do use that third wheel a lot to quickly switch between autofocus modes, and focus points, when shooting moving birds or other wildlife. Whenever I use the tripod I use live view with the screen tilted, the timer, often focus peaking, magnification, and bracketing.

I'm not sure what new features I might use, nothing that I can imagine. Maybe I might use video a little if you could use the viewfinder, it's very awkward trying to shoot holding a camera out away from your body. Of course improvements in current functions are always welcome, things like improved autofocus and ISO, things we get with every new generation camera anyway. An onboard GPS would be welcome, but that isn't new, just not included on the KP.

[leekil]

So away with more! more! more! and go for less! less! less!. (which probably means getting an upgrade to the K10d, a K25d with a diminished size like the KP or even smaller...)

I don't know, I mostly only use the basic camera functions, but I do use more than you -- that is, not only manual mode. And comparing it to a K10D -- I have been using one recently, and the K-1 has a much better layout for the basic controls, which I consider to include aperture, shutter speed, ISO, and exposure compensation. I guess there could be a version without all the menus, but perhaps a better idea, and better for economy of scale, would be a "No menus" mode which would be more of just the basic controls.

[zapp]

Nikon F801 had a new feature called Matrix metering. We take this for granted these days, but it makes a difference. In body metering is still quite important - more so than other features. Metering is not simple, put you pretend that using manual mode is the essence of simplicity. Not if you rely on in camera metering and ISO on the third wheel. Aperture priority, shutter priority, … standard now and also included in manual mode with quick shift Luis ISO control. Rangefinder vs SLR vs digital mirrorless or live you on the back display of an SLR. Hm, that are physical differences that shake up design. I don’t use video, but honestly 11fps are fun, what can we extract from high quality video in the near future. Technology develops ever faster, but if you understand the basics, you can benefit from new features. Key question is what differentiates cameras. Pentax does great concentrating on essential features like viewfinders, control layout, even in keeping the dslr story alive. And they offer lenses to go along with those cameras, slowly but steadily.
In the end the marked will decide how Pentax is appreciated, how long Leica M cameras will stick around. Buy what you like, us3 what you like and stick to it as longest possible. That’s the key.

[hcarvalhoalves]

Up-to-date video. Every manufacturer is able to get decent 4K+ video today, even tiny action cameras. K-mount backwards compatibility is a big selling point for Pentax, but all these great lenses are vanishing from the market to be attached onto other cameras for video, and this is a shame. If Pentax doesn't up their game on video, it risks turning completely irrelevant, not being able to sustain enough volume to produce even photography-focused equipment for people who don't care about video, because this market is increasingly small.

It seems they're aiming at a "Leica" boutique strategy with exclusive/custom models and such, but considering they can't even sell outside Japan, this looks like a real quick path to irrelevance. The only reason I still own Pentax is because I already got a bunch of lenses, they lost their unique selling points (affordable, compact, WR, IBIS, compatibility w/ old lenses). Even Fuji has more WR lenses than Pentax now, specially primes. I don't understand why Pentax didn't WR the Limiteds when they updated the coatings.

They seem to understand this, considering what I saw about the K-3 III (first to support 4K, although cropped), but there's a lot of catching up to do still.

[tonyzoc]

I think Pentax should secure their niche as THE digital SLR company by abandoning APS-C and just making full frame DSLRs. They should have 2 models in production, one the flagship state of the art, and the second a less exspensive model...either the previous model still in production or a lesser featured model. All lenses should be full frame and of the highest quality both optically and in construction. They also need to continue to innovate like they used to in previous eras.

I also think they should reenter film camera market with a camera that can use the digital lenses in their lineup. Film doesn't look like its just a fad that's going away. Eventually the used market (which is at least 15-20 yr old cameras) will dry up and the option to buy a new solid SLR that uses HD PLM lenses might be profitable.

[luftfluss]

I think Pentax should secure their niche as THE digital SLR company by abandoning APS-C and just making full frame DSLRs. They should have 2 models in production, one the flagship state of the art, and the second a less exspensive model...either the previous model still in production or a lesser featured model.

According to a BCN Retail report published earlier this year, the 10 best-selling cameras in Japan includes no full frame models.

2021????????????TOP10??????6400?????Vlog????????ZV-E10??4????????2022/1/5 - BCN?R


https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/the-10-best-selling-cameras-in-japan...slrs-no-nikons

The report was published by Japanese body BCN Retail (opens in new tab) (thanks to Digital Camera Info (opens in new tab)) , which accumulates data that accounts for approximately 40% of Japan's sales market – including the nation's major camera retailers.

While I would hardly conclude the BCN report is definitive, I do think it is meaningful.

[Joetitch]

As Pentax doesn't make sensors, they have to use whatever is available at the time. As APSC sensors are improving, that advantages of FF is diminishing. As well as us older generation leaving the planet, the younger ones are probably not so hung up on FF.
Love my K1 but rarely have a situation where it's advantages outweigh the KP. I don't think it is in Pentax interest to go only FF. But I don't have a crystal ball and I have no say in their business model.

[Michail_P]

APS-C sensors are not gonna disappear... They’re included in more affordable models and produce great quality. Idk if we should connect FF with the OVF experience, in a definite way..
What I would love to see in the next model is a bit of built-in memory. I think of this as a safety lock. Marketing restrictions are obvious but is that so difficult, technically?

[EssJayEff]

I, too, saw that video. When I did, my mind went to a very different place: a desire for a digital field camera. (Yes, I’m used to being the oddball.) Super resolution producing superb image quality, swings and tilts, rising front; no video, no meter, no shake reduction, no autofocus. (My desire for better autofocus in the someday K-1 III is due to aging eyes, so I would need some equivalent of a loupe on ground glass!) A digital version of my old Wista would be wonderful. I’m feeling wistful.

No, I cannot afford it. But other than shooting square format on a Hasselblad and a Rolliefex, I’ve been my photographically happiest shooting 4x5 film with a view camera.

[tonyzoc]

According to a BCN Retail report published earlier this year, the 10 best-selling cameras in Japan includes no full frame models.

2021????????????TOP10??????6400?????Vlog????????ZV-E10??4????????2022/1/5 - BCN?R


https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/the-10-best-selling-cameras-in-japan...slrs-no-nikons

While I would hardly conclude the BCN report is definitive, I do think it is meaningful.

Are those 10 DSLRs? And is that in number of units or revenue? Obviously the $500 Canon/Nikon kits are going to be allot cheaper than full frame high end bodies and they'll sell more units...and probably bring in more money... But, arent DSLRs going away? Has any other company stated a commitment to DSLR future besides Pentax?



---------- Post added 11-07-22 at 09:57 AM ----------

APS-C sensors are not gonna disappear... They’re included in more affordable models and produce great quality. Idk if we should connect FF with the OVF experience, in a definite way..

What I would love to see in the next model is a bit of built-in memory. I think of this as a safety lock. Marketing restrictions are obvious but is that so difficult, technically?

Multiple chip formats will not go away...but can you say the same for DSLRs? I'm not so much pushing full frame (which I don't own in Pentax) as move to just one size for cost and design focus. If Pentax ends up being the only DSLR made ...they'll may become a niche product. As so they should focus on high end market, quality and not high volume.

[luftfluss]

Are those 10 DSLRs? And is that in number of units or revenue? Obviously the $500 Canon/Nikon kits are going to be allot cheaper than full frame high end bodies and they'll sell more units...and probably bring in more money... But, arent DSLRs going away? Has any other company stated a commitment to DSLR future besides Pentax?

Units, all mirrorless, no DSLR.

But I think the lesson here is that in Pentax's primary market - Japan - there is evidence that "bigger is better" is not necessarily the cultural mantra that it is in some other countries, like the USA. And if that is the case, it makes sense for Pentax to continue with an APS-C camera - they use the (translated from Japanese) word "dynamic" when describing the K-3 III - while the K-1 is a studio or field camera.

[Michail_P]

(Contemporary art and ) digital photography is based on many parameters. “High-end camera” has different interpretations , while it’s obvious that an all-in-one model is not the market target. So what should we look for? Resolution, Focus, Color, Use, ...
personally, I’m a fan of built quality and don’t really care about AI, processing units etc. I’d love Pentax to make tough, metal, all-weather bodies in every series.

[TaoMaas]

Up-to-date video. Every manufacturer is able to get decent 4K+ video today, even tiny action cameras. K-mount backwards compatibility is a big selling point for Pentax, but all these great lenses are vanishing from the market to be attached onto other cameras for video, and this is a shame. If Pentax doesn't up their game on video, it risks turning completely irrelevant, not being able to sustain enough volume to produce even photography-focused equipment for people who don't care about video, because this market is increasingly small.

Count me as another one who think Pentax needs to up their video game. I've been a loyal Pentax user for 50 years and am one of the 2 or 3 members of my camera club who still shoot with Pentax...and there used to be a bunch of us. Pentax lost most of those folks by being slow to embrace autofocus and I think they're doing a similar thing these days by ignoring video. Personally, Pentax's video quality...or lack of...has forced me to buy a used GH-4 for my video shooting and lately I've been pricing the Sony A7sii for the same reason. If they're not going to improve their video quality throughout their line, then maybe Pentax could release a single more video-centric camera. A K-02 perhaps? Heck, I'd even settle for a speed booster that would let me use my Limited lenses on my GH-4 with more functionality.

[Cerebum]

Full frame? Bigger lenses? More weight? Nah, I will stick with my small and breathtakingly cool KP with its wonderful (for me) ergonomics. OK, I want a K1 but I have zero cash so that will have to wait. The KP is eminently customizable for jpeg shooters, the third wheel, flip screen and swapable grips are superb, the IQ is excellent, the accelerator chip means I can ramp up my iso when I need to (it blows my K3 out of the water in this regard). Auto focus is accurate and plenty fast enough. As for shooting, I live in aperture priority, back button focus, entire exposure triangle at my fingertips. I sometimes use CTE WB and pixel shift occasionally but all the other tricks, whilst nice to have, I don't use. Wish list, maybe a top LCD and a bigger battery but not at the expense of the lovely small form factor. The KP has the classic look of my MX, particularly in silver, with the smallest grip and sporting a limited prime. Mine is up to 35k clicks without a hitch so, for me, my wish list would be to put the KP back into production.

[Joetitch]

Full frame? Bigger lenses? More weight? Nah, I will stick with my small and breathtakingly cool KP with its wonderful (for me) ergonomics. OK, I want a K1 but I have zero cash so that will have to wait. The KP is eminently customizable for jpeg shooters, the third wheel, flip screen and swapable grips are superb, the IQ is excellent, the accelerator chip means I can ramp up my iso when I need to (it blows my K3 out of the water in this regard). Auto focus is accurate and plenty fast enough. As for shooting, I live in aperture priority, back button focus, entire exposure triangle at my fingertips. I sometimes use CTE WB and pixel shift occasionally but all the other tricks, whilst nice to have, I don't use. Wish list, maybe a top LCD and a bigger battery but not at the expense of the lovely small form factor. The KP has the classic look of my MX, particularly in silver, with the smallest grip and sporting a limited prime. Mine is up to 35k clicks without a hitch so, for me, my wish list would be to put the KP back into production.

With some minor updates which will be wasted on me😊
KPii would be great 👍