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12-25-2008, 06:03 AM   #16
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Pentax K20D + DA 12-24mm, FA 31mm Ltd. and DA 70mm Ltd.

Then you have a great dSLR, a very good wideangle zoom for landscape/cityscape picture. One of the best normal primes for inside use and walkaround lenses. Finally a great, small and non-obtrusive portrait prime lens.

About 2600USD at B&H without taxes.

12-25-2008, 11:52 AM   #17
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I don't understand. The OP is coming from a K1000 film camera. That is a very nice camera, but it is hardly a professional-grade camera, even in its prime. The K20D will produce images that are at least as good as the best a K1000 can do. Plus, it has many features we could only dream about in 1976, when the K1000 first appeared.

Asking a Canon user if Pentax is a good choice, is probably not very useful.

I am one of those who is very far from convinced that FF is the future. Yes, FF has a future, and a good one, but I do not believe for a moment that it spells the end of quality APS-C cameras or the continuing improvement in such cameras. Right now, and IMHO, for the near-future, FF is a small niche market and will remain very expensive. Nikon and Canon may be successful with FF cameras, but, right now, I think Pentax would be foolish to introduce a FF camera.

Back when the K1000 was new, MF cameras had advantages over 35mm. But they had disadvantages, too. They were big, bulky and expensive, but they produced superb images. Very few amatuer photographers really needed that quality, or could afford it. I think that the same is true today, with APS-C vs. FF.

I know all the wonderful things about FF, such as better high-ISO performance, and larger pixels, but I still do not believe that more than about 5 percent of the camera market will want/need FF. That is a very small pie, which C & N already control. The other 95 percent is a much easier market for Pentax to compete in. I am not knocking FF. I just don't believe that Pentax' future depends on it.

I have absolutely no fear for the future of Pentax, with or without FF.

Paul Noble
12-25-2008, 03:08 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
I don't understand. The OP is coming from a K1000 film camera. That is a very nice camera, but it is hardly a professional-grade camera, even in its prime. The K20D will produce images that are at least as good as the best a K1000 can do. Plus, it has many features we could only dream about in 1976, when the K1000 first appeared.

Asking a Canon user if Pentax is a good choice, is probably not very useful.

I am one of those who is very far from convinced that FF is the future. Yes, FF has a future, and a good one, but I do not believe for a moment that it spells the end of quality APS-C cameras or the continuing improvement in such cameras. Right now, and IMHO, for the near-future, FF is a small niche market and will remain very expensive. Nikon and Canon may be successful with FF cameras, but, right now, I think Pentax would be foolish to introduce a FF camera.

Back when the K1000 was new, MF cameras had advantages over 35mm. But they had disadvantages, too. They were big, bulky and expensive, but they produced superb images. Very few amatuer photographers really needed that quality, or could afford it. I think that the same is true today, with APS-C vs. FF.

I know all the wonderful things about FF, such as better high-ISO performance, and larger pixels, but I still do not believe that more than about 5 percent of the camera market will want/need FF. That is a very small pie, which C & N already control. The other 95 percent is a much easier market for Pentax to compete in. I am not knocking FF. I just don't believe that Pentax' future depends on it.

I have absolutely no fear for the future of Pentax, with or without FF.

Paul Noble
you are all right I am not in a sec doubting about Pentax... its the first time I am checking to get a real dSLR and I am just overwhelmed by all the option... not judging any one or saying this is better then that and so on. and yes the K1000 is VERY simple but it always worked for me. I mostly shoot candid and street. I am sure the K20D is way more then I would ever need.

Thanks for all the responses I am on your side its very easy to convince me that Pentax are great
12-25-2008, 03:12 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
Strange to hear, since the 31 is "normal" on the Pentax sensor and the 77 is a short telephoto. Did I miss something somewhere?
ha ha you are right

again overwhelmed by the options. actually normal lens is all I ever use. I always wanted a better portrait one. but you know now when I am looking at a new camera I want to get everything even though I will never use it

Happy holidays!

12-25-2008, 03:30 PM   #20
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just for conclusion...
I Love Pentax I love love the lenses. and I am going to get the K20d the 31,77, and maybe one day the 12-24. and I am sure its more then I will ever need.

but get this... I went to B&H and asked the guy at the Pentax booth "so why Pentax and not Canon Nikon?" ... so get this ... that was his answer:

"why some people get porsche and Ferrari and some get ford?"

I really don't want to hear this when I getting a new kit for over $2000 that I am getting a ford and not a porsche... (and I know I am just armature and bla bla and ford is great for me) but still that was annoying

I am saying that just to share with...
as you can understand I did a lot of research and I can now say that with Pentax I am getting the Best Best kit for the kind of photography that I like which is a good camera and an amazing normal lens. and I can not get it from the others not for that price and that quality


Have a great Holiday
12-25-2008, 04:49 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
(snip) the K20D is the best they have so far and no pro cam or FF cam after all these years. (snip)

The definition of "pro cam" is pretty vague. The K20D is far more advanced (in most every regard) than my old Mamiya 645 (sold last year), yet most would consider the Mamiya a "pro cam" and the Pentax not. I'm using the Pentax for the same type of tasks as the Mamiya, so see no reason to downgrade the Pentax to something else. In other words, the K20D is a "pro cam" in my book. Same with the K10D.

I'll leave the FF issue to the other threads currently discussing that topic.

stewart
12-25-2008, 07:37 PM   #22
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One thing that nobody else has mentioned is that the 31 & 77 have aperture rings and can also work on your K1000. I'm in agreement with other people here that the DA12-24 is a great option for WA on digital APS-C sensors. With the 1.5x crop factor, that makes the FF equivalent 18-36mm.

If you want to see some excellent examples of what the 31 & 77 can do, then go check out the Lens section and do a search and you'll find plenty of examples that will most definitely fuel your LBA.

Heather
12-25-2008, 08:01 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote

but get this... I went to B&H and asked the guy at the Pentax booth "so why Pentax and not Canon Nikon?" ... so get this ... that was his answer:

"why some people get porsche and Ferrari and some get ford?"
Horses for courses, but I'm not sure which he was describing as which. At any rate his analogy doesn't really hold water. And I'll bet he hasn't owned or driven a Porsche or a Ferrari

If you want an eye opening little bit of fun, go to the dp review review of the Nikon D90 (which costs more than the K20d right now). Look at the "compared to" images between the Nikon and the Pentax.

Then go look at the Pentax ltd lenses. Compare with equivalent priced Nikon glass (or plastic as the case may be).

Then buy what moves you...

12-25-2008, 08:46 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Then go look at the Pentax ltd lenses. Compare with equivalent priced Nikon glass (or plastic as the case may be).
Yeah, this is really what sold me on Pentax. Nikon has some nice $1000 and $1200 primes, but even then, their emphasis is clearly on zooms.
12-25-2008, 09:15 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Horses for courses, but I'm not sure which he was describing as which. At any rate his analogy doesn't really hold water. And I'll bet he hasn't owned or driven a Porsche or a Ferrari

If you want an eye opening little bit of fun, go to the dp review review of the Nikon D90 (which costs more than the K20d right now). Look at the "compared to" images between the Nikon and the Pentax.

Then go look at the Pentax ltd lenses. Compare with equivalent priced Nikon glass (or plastic as the case may be).

Then buy what moves you...
Well, if that Ford is a GT, its a good analogy.


Edit: Or a Cobra or even Pantera.
12-25-2008, 10:09 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
One thing that nobody else has mentioned is that the 31 & 77 have aperture rings and can also work on your K1000. I'm in agreement with other people here that the DA12-24 is a great option for WA on digital APS-C sensors. With the 1.5x crop factor, that makes the FF equivalent 18-36mm.

If you want to see some excellent examples of what the 31 & 77 can do, then go check out the Lens section and do a search and you'll find plenty of examples that will most definitely fuel your LBA.

Heather

I did

and also that:

PENTAX Photo Gallery

that's just amazing quality of work... one day I hope to get my work on there too
12-26-2008, 03:39 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
I am sure the K20D is way more then I would ever need.
Shooting film with a P30 until some weeks ago, I had the same thoughts.... . Upgraded to a K20D, I am fallen in love with the possibilities of my DSLR Don't hessitate (although it's a right thing to think things over, of course!), you will love it!

Rense
12-26-2008, 05:48 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
"why some people get porsche and Ferrari and some get ford?"

Have a great Holiday
There is a lot less Porsche and Ferrari on the road than Ford, and there are a lot less Pentax (Porsche?) in use than Nikon and Canon (Ford?).
12-26-2008, 06:57 AM   #29
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If you like primes you will not be disappointed with the 31ltd or the 77ltd and I shoot mine on the K10D. Unbelievable lenses and as mentioned they will also work on your film camera. IMHO these lenses are a no-brainer if you can afford them.
12-26-2008, 09:05 AM   #30
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Pentax and Ferrari

QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
but get this... I went to B&H and asked the guy at the Pentax booth "so why Pentax and not Canon Nikon?" ... so get this ... that was his answer:

"why some people get porsche and Ferrari and some get ford?"
Years ago, when a Chevy sedan sold for perhaps $3000 and a Corvette sold for about $7000, I read that someone asked Enzo Ferrari what he thought of the 'Vette. His reply was "if we sold it, it would cost $50,000".

I think that, if the K20D had the Canon or Nikon name on it, it would sell for $1,800, instead of $800. And, even at that price, people would be marvelling over what a bargain it was.

You always have to remember that Canon and Nikon sell many more cameras, so the stores prefer them; they're easier to sell. Plus, I've heard that the big two sometimes offer commissions directly to the counter salesperson, which Pentax doesn't do. The same is true for camera magazines that review cameras. C & N spend several times as much on advertising as Pentax does, so their reviews are sometimes a little suspect.

My advice is to go to the stores and try out the various cameras. Read the reviews and study the specs of each camera. Then, buy the one that is right for YOU, not because of some review, or because you saw Ashton Kutcher pushing the D90 on TV, but because the camera has the features and quality that appeal to YOU.

Don't worry about bogus analogies between Ford and Ferrari. Don't worry that you see a lot more Canons and Nikons than you do Pentaxes. The things I like about Pentax may not appeal to you. To me, the image that the camera produces is more important than the nameplate. Price is a consideration, and in that area, I think that Pentax gives you more bang for your buck than the others.

A Ferrari may go faster than a Ford, but if you want to carry a family, if you are concerned about price, if you are concerned about gas mileage, if you are concerned about ride quality on rough roads, if you are concerned about luggage space, a Ford may be more suited to your needs. My point is that just as Ferrari has its strengths, so does Ford. N & C have their strengths, Pentax has its strengths. All will take good pictures; probably better than you can.

BTW, be glad that you even have a store where you can go to the "Pentax Booth". Many of us outside of New York have a hard time finding a store that has any Pentax gear in stock.
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