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03-16-2007, 07:01 PM   #1
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K10 Price Reduction

I just ordered the K10D from Amazon for $810(USD). Last week it was around $850 and then jumped two days ago to $895. Today it dumped to $809.99. I'm guessing that this will be as low as it will go for a while.
Buying cameras is like playing the stock market. Two years ago I bought my DS for $900 which was a smoking deal. Now it's about half that price. I upgraded mainly for the shake reduction, sensor cleanier, larger LCD, more MP, and some other bells and whistles.
Therefore the K10's replacement will be probably be announced in the near future since I finally decided to make the leap.

03-16-2007, 09:09 PM   #2
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Crap! I ordered it a few hours ago at $848 because that was the lowest I had seen it go.
03-16-2007, 10:32 PM   #3
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Yeah I played it safe and went for the K100D, using the extra on a better lens. I'll upgrade to the K10D when it dives, as it will, in a year or so.
03-17-2007, 03:21 AM   #4
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If it is even around in a year or so, you mean.

While googling around one day, I came across a site that listed Pentax P&S models, along with the period of their production. There was an amazing number of models....almost all of which had production runs of well under one year.

With digital cameras, the sensor and other electronic innards are subject to rapid ongoing evolution of a sort that a medium such as traditional film never had to face, meaning that years-long production runs are highly unlikely.

I have sometimes thought it would be great if they made a DSLR along modular lines, allowing people to pick and choose different components to assemble their own camera bodies, as well as to upgrade them one component at a time. Sort of how one can do with a home computer, swapping out the various drives, cards, boards, chips, etc. one at at time while still having a perfectly functional unit.

03-17-2007, 07:48 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
I have sometimes thought it would be great if they made a DSLR along modular lines, allowing people to pick and choose different components to assemble their own camera bodies, as well as to upgrade them one component at a time.
Or at least interchangeable sensors: similar to inserting a memory card, imagine one wide door at the bottom of the camera we can open, and slide out old sensor, slide in a new one, and if necessary upgrade firmware to support a new sensor. If developed the right way, image acquiring and decoding firmware could be on the module itself so that camera can simply load that software module off the sensor module and perform all other functions the same way.

One fairly large camera that works precisely that way: the Hubble Space Telescope! They just bring a new instrument and plug it in the standardized slot in place of an old one. After a software update you get effectively a new space telescope 10% the initial cost.
03-17-2007, 08:55 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan Glisin Quote
One fairly large camera that works precisely that way: the Hubble Space Telescope! They just bring a new instrument and plug it in the standardized slot in place of an old one. After a software update you get effectively a new space telescope 10% the initial cost.
The HST sensor update costs are failrly steep.

My first thought is a mechanism to align a replaceable sensor would be expensive, but then my K100D already has electrical movement of the sensor (Shake Reduction). Perhaps the existing technology could be expanded to center and square a user unstalled sensor. If the cost of a replaceable sensor would have to be well under the cost of just buying a new camera.
03-17-2007, 10:18 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnV3 Quote
I just ordered the K10D from Amazon for $810(USD). Last week it was around $850 and then jumped two days ago to $895. Today it dumped to $809.99.
Thanks for that, John -- I just followed suit. And if you sign up for an Amazon Prime trial you can get $3 O/N shipping! I figure I'll either cancel the body I've supposedly got coming from fotoconnection, or return it, or something (but they're closed on Saturdays). That having been said, it will probably be delivered today.

QuoteOriginally posted by LeoTaylor Quote
If the cost of a replaceable sensor would have to be well under the cost of just buying a new camera.
That would be my suspicion -- that the cost of the rest of the camera is essentially negligible. At least, coupled with the sales they'd lose because most people don't want to do something potentially risky by installing delicate equipment themselves (which obviously couldn't be covered by warranty). Sure, you could have Authorized Retailers do the swap, but then you've got training for them, etc, etc. I don't think a cost analysis would back it up (unlike the Hubble, where the original equipment replacement cost would be prohibitive!).

And now that I think of it, you're essentially duplicating the Hubble model when you replace the camera BODY. In essence, anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, personally -- I just don't think it's got more than niche market appeal. Unfortunately.
03-17-2007, 10:55 AM   #8
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Not so simple

QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan Glisin Quote
Or at least interchangeable sensors: similar to inserting a memory card, imagine one wide door at the bottom of the camera we can open, and slide out old sensor, slide in a new one, and if necessary upgrade firmware to support a new sensor. If developed the right way, image acquiring and decoding firmware could be on the module itself so that camera can simply load that software module off the sensor module and perform all other functions the same way.

One fairly large camera that works precisely that way: the Hubble Space Telescope! They just bring a new instrument and plug it in the standardized slot in place of an old one. After a software update you get effectively a new space telescope 10% the initial cost.
This is a nice idea, but there are some devilish details. In addition to the sensor, you'd also need to replace the clocking & drive electronics. New sensors will be of a different pixel format (bigger), so they'll need different drive electronics. They may also need different preamps and A/D circuits (e.g. the K10D PRIME chip).

Much more than the sensor is replaced when the Hubble is repaired. Entire instruments consisting of new optics, electronics, software, and mechanical structures are swapped in and out. Think of the Hubble telescope as a BIG lens (57.6 m focal length, 2.4 m diameter) that has different camera systems (bodies plus teleconverters) attached to it.

03-17-2007, 12:17 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildboar Quote
Crap! I ordered it a few hours ago at $848 because that was the lowest I had seen it go.
If you ordered from amazon, they'll refund the price difference within 30 days if you give them a call.

Phone toll-free in the US and Canada: (800) 201-7575
Phone from outside the US and Canada: (206) 346-2992 or (206)-266-2992
Another direct line: (206) 266-2335
03-17-2007, 02:38 PM   #10
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this sounds good as i was not going to UG till summer. the lower it goes the better as far as i'm concerned. i 'll probably skip the next model and buy the 2nd one after it. it will have to offer a lot more than the k10d tho.

i always wonder why the cmera companies just don't make a solid body with the essential controls and build a new back for it. the back could contain all the new controls.
03-17-2007, 04:11 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by walter Quote
If you ordered from amazon, they'll refund the price difference within 30 days if you give them a call.

Phone toll-free in the US and Canada: (800) 201-7575
Phone from outside the US and Canada: (206) 346-2992 or (206)-266-2992
Another direct line: (206) 266-2335
Walter,

Thank you for those numbers. I just called them and they said they will credit the difference if I call back once it ships and I get tracking numbers (which will probably be on Monday). I wonder what happens if it's $848 again on Monday? I may call back and talk to another person and see where I get.

Thanks again.
03-20-2007, 12:18 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomG Quote
This is a nice idea, but there are some devilish details. In addition to the sensor, you'd also need to replace the clocking & drive electronics. New sensors will be of a different pixel format (bigger), so they'll need different drive electronics. They may also need different preamps and A/D circuits (e.g. the K10D PRIME chip).
Quite right, but only if we assume no standard is to be made. In this case a standard protocol for sensor data readout would have to be established that can run over the internal fast channel (proprietary parallel or perhaps Firewire). Also, at the hardware level the sensor module would not be just a bare sensor itself with pins wired to the camera, but all necessary electronics to provide all internal operations and communication over the provided channel.

In fact, we already have something in a way similar: when using Pentax Remote Assistant a sensor is just a remote module operated over a USB link! Sensor modules would use somewhat similar approach but on a lower level and much simpler without any image processing applied. Remote Assistant for example could receive JPEG from *istD, while sensor modules would not pack data into JPEGs or do any other high-level processing. The protocol may for example send DNG-like stream from module to camera for further processing so it would not matter what kind of sensor module you plug in. And imagine the possibilities: low resolution but extremely low noise sensors, high resolution sensors, APS-C or full frame sensors, B&W or infrared sensors, Foveon, CMOS or CCD modules of what not. With price per module comparable to solid lenses (say, $250-$500) I can imagine some forum members developing SMBA!!! (Sensor Module Buying Addiction).

Being hardware and software designed myself for over 20 years I believe this is 100% feasible and would be cost effective.
03-20-2007, 07:08 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by walter Quote
If you ordered from amazon, they'll refund the price difference within 30 days if you give them a call.

Phone toll-free in the US and Canada: (800) 201-7575
Phone from outside the US and Canada: (206) 346-2992 or (206)-266-2992
Another direct line: (206) 266-2335
Walter, THANK YOU for this info. I purchased my K10D (body only) from Amazon on February 27. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see about the refund. Will mean about $50 to me.

Will
03-20-2007, 07:39 PM   #14
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I think I'll pick up a K10 tomorrow from amazon, thats a great price.


Now, should I wait for the 16-50 limited or get he 16-45...hmmmmmm

Last edited by Phazed; 03-20-2007 at 07:52 PM.
03-21-2007, 12:19 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by walter Quote
If you ordered from amazon, they'll refund the price difference within 30 days if you give them a call.
Thanks again to Walter for the numbers - and the info about Amazon's policy. I just got off the phone after getting a $45 credit! This policy makes me feel a bit warm and fuzzy about Amazon.

Will
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