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01-08-2009, 06:22 AM   #16
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I would go for DS. I did own DL for few years and while it was great small camera, the prism viefinder is way better (though I am comparing DL to the K10D). You will also get TTL flash support (if I am not mistaken). That will open up more possibilities to use older and cheaper flashes.

You will like the size of the ist* cameras. I loved my DL. The only thing is that if you stuck big lens on it, it will look weird and out of proportions :-)

01-08-2009, 06:27 AM   #17
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$10 says we get a thread about the bad AF of the DS.

Last edited by Toshi; 01-08-2009 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Language
01-08-2009, 06:29 AM   #18
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AF isn't really a problem for me...
01-08-2009, 06:36 AM   #19
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Sorry but I have to say your decision making just doesn't make sense at all. Before you go off talking about lenses to get, take a couple of moments to consider your camera choice.

The principle criteria in selecting a digital camera should be the quality of images from the sensor. In this regard, it makes little sense to buy a camera that is a couple generations old. Pentax was a late entrant in the digital SLR arena and had been using the same 6 megapixel CCD sensor up until the K100D Super. Technology has moved beyond 6 megapixels.

Yes the *ist cameras have a nice slightly deeper grip but ergonomics aside you should be aiming for the most recent camera possible because it will yield better images for any given lens. The *ist cameras are pretty slow and although the DS is the "pro" version of the lot, the best version imo was the *ist DL2 (not available in all markets). The jpeg output is similar to the K100D, which is much, much better than the preceding *ist models, DS included.

As to why you'd forsake Shake Reduction on the K100D and newer bodies, which is the cornerstone feature for Pentax is puzzling. Trust me, SR is a godsend. Also having a 2.5 inch LCD is a big deal. Pentamirror vs pentaprism differences aren't significant.

From an economics angle, cameras prices are getting ever lower. Those *ist models weren't that cheap then and frankly aren't worth much at all today.

Those older DSLRs probably have a high shutter count (factor in a replacement shutter down the road), probably are well used, have little warranty if any, and cost not much less than a newer camera today. With digital, best to get the camera with the best sensor possible, then invest in the lenses. Then again, if you want to buy-in into obsolete gear, it's really your decision and money.

01-08-2009, 07:22 AM   #20
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I've gotta say I'm with those who are suggesting a K200 or K10, or even a K100D Super, but if you are flat-out firm in your decision, I would think the DS is the clear winner. I had a DL, and it was a fine camera, but the K100D Super I replaced it with was an upgrade (for the shake reduction if nothing else), and the K200D I have now is a clear upgrade from both. The DS still has its followers, and though I never used one, it seems to be a great camera, just outdated. The DL was really nothing special.
01-08-2009, 08:35 AM   #21
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Adding my vote for the DS - yes, the viewfinder is a big deal, especially since you are talking about using lenses with F4 as max aperture. I used to own a DS, now I own the K100D because my DS was stolen. The DS viewfinder is better than the K100D or K200D.
The DL and DS have depreciated so much that there is hardly any price difference between them; you're getting a huge deal on that viewfinder especially since it is now only used in the semi-pro level cameras.

The DS is a great choice and I love the pictures I took with it when I had it. Shake Reduction is a special purpose feature, some need it a lot, some don't need it very much. Go for it now so you can get back to shooting!

A word about decision making. The longer I'm in the hobby the more certain I am that I can never be certain what equipment I want

I also think you are right to prioritize lenses in your budget at this level. Whatever gives you the most creative freedom.
01-08-2009, 09:05 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Barkowski Quote
... The longer I'm in the hobby the more certain I am that I can never be certain what equipment I want
....
couldn't agree more...
01-08-2009, 09:19 AM   #23
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sflights,
It really make me upset that Craigslist is full of great deals for Canon and Nikon and has very few Pentax items. Keep the Canon and get something like this great lens with IS builtin. Thats what I'd do.

Canon EF-S 17-85 mm f4-5.6 IS USM Lens

Dave



QuoteOriginally posted by sflights Quote
But I still can't decide.

I'm switching from Canon to Pentax, and want to focus on the lens more than the body this time, because I got stuck with an expensive Canon body that I couldn't afford a matching lens for. I want to get the 16-45 or the 10-17 fisheye for my lenses, but that's not what I'm wondering about here.

I can't decide between the DS and the DL.

I don't want to spend money on a K10D until I'm ready to move up for it, since I wouldn't be able to afford the lenses with it if I ended up getting it, so I've been looking at these two. The SR of the K100D isn't worth it to me, and I don't really like that camera, especially since other than the occasional great deal, it's still a bit overpriced. The main reason is that I like the shape of these two little cameras more, however, to be honest.

The problem I have is that the 2 inch LCD of the DS doesn't seem like it would be enough for me, but the DL uses a pentamirror instead of a prism. Is the viewfinder really that big of a deciding factor when it comes to other things like the LCD size? I'm pretty sure those are the only main differences.

Also, I'd look for the DS2 since I'd get all the features I want, but I NEVER can find one.


01-08-2009, 12:03 PM   #24
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Not on the DS/DL or any Kxxx body

QuoteOriginally posted by Chwisch87 Quote
At least you will have wireless flash now ha ha ha silly canon.
01-08-2009, 12:05 PM   #25
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The Image quality of the K10D is MILES ahead of the DS (at least in the ISO100-400 range)

Again though, why not just sell your 28-135 and get some better Canon glass to stick on your 20D?
01-08-2009, 12:18 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by egordon99 Quote
Not on the DS/DL or any Kxxx body
wrong. the K200D has wireless flash. the only *ist series camera to have wireless flash was the *istD.
01-08-2009, 12:36 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big Dave Quote
sflights,
It really make me upset that Craigslist is full of great deals for Canon and Nikon and has very few Pentax items. Keep the Canon and get something like this great lens with IS builtin. Thats what I'd do.

Canon EF-S 17-85 mm f4-5.6 IS USM Lens

Dave

Except that is one of the Canon mounts most dissapointing lenses. So many users think it's a very poor effort so use the Siggy 17-70.
01-08-2009, 12:40 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
The principle criteria in selecting a digital camera should be the quality of images from the sensor.

Yes the *ist cameras have a nice slightly deeper grip but ergonomics aside you should be aiming for the most recent camera possible because it will yield better images for any given lens.
Um no and err no. IQ is such a wash between sensors of the same size that it's about item number 10 on ones list. A decent lens makes a much bigger difference IMHO.

Also, the 10MP Sony sensor is probably the poorest sensor released in the last 5 years, no one could squeeze a REALLY good performance from it. The D200 was so-so, the 10D had banding etc etc ... to me it's the ugly duckling of sesors. The 12MP Sony is a much more solid option IMHO.

Now SR is another matter altogether but i do agree, the DS is FAR nicer to hold than the 100D or the bloated 200D.
01-08-2009, 12:41 PM   #29
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I'm also going to be one of those nagging you to consider the more recent cameras. I guarantee you'd adjust to the different in grip in a matter of days, as I did in moving the DS to the K200D. Since you seem concerned enough about image quality to be talking about lenses other than the kit lens, why would you throw away some of that hard-earned IQ on camera shake and a sensor that doesn't have enough resolution to take advantage of the greater sharpness of the better lenses? It just doesn't make sense.

All that said, the choice betwene the DS and DL is a no-brainer. The DS wins on every single count except LCD size, which has got to be the least important spec on the list of differences if you're primary concern is the image itself.
01-08-2009, 12:56 PM   #30
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Have you used the 17-85? It's not THAT bad.....At 17mm it's pretty weak (distortion, CA, etc....) but from 20mm and up it's really sharp, AF is as quick as can be, IS works VERY well. I use it at events where I need the zoom range, and my 580EXII makes up for the f/5.6. My 85mm f/1.8, (Sigma) 30mm f/1.4 and 70-200mm f/4 IS L kill it, but considering the range and relative compactness of it, it's not a bad lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
Except that is one of the Canon mounts most dissapointing lenses. So many users think it's a very poor effort so use the Siggy 17-70.
Regardless, it's probably more or less comparable to his 28-135mm.
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