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01-10-2009, 10:54 PM   #31
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I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I really don't feel the need for my K20D to have the AF ability to track a stinger missile in pitch black.

New year's eve, I was at my cousin's house, chasing around her 5 and 8 year-old kids with my K20D, indoors, near midnight, and I have no complaints. And this was using the 18-55 kit lens. Only complaint I have, is I was using a ratty standard 4GB Sandisk SD card (now I have an 8GB Extreme III - MUCH better, thank you!), and it was slow to dump to SD, but I expected that. A $15 SD card ain't gonna cut it.

She was using her XSi, and at the end of the night, after she uploaded to her PC, and I uploaded to my laptop, she was eyeballing my K20D

Tony

01-11-2009, 07:24 AM   #32
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So today I compared my K10D to a Nikon D50. I shot some pic in low light and the D50 was much faster.Now I'm thinking to change my setup in near future. Going for a nikon D80 or Canon 40D. Pentax AF s*cks A*s
01-11-2009, 07:30 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by karq Quote
Pentax AF s*cks A*s
Yeah, but they've got the best glass by far.
01-11-2009, 08:02 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Matt Miller Quote
Yeah, but they've got the best glass by far.
Great primes, average zooms.

01-11-2009, 08:23 AM   #35
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I think another factor people ignore is the strength of the focus motor for screw drive lenses. If I'm not mistaken the PZ1p had one of the strongest motors Pentax put in a body. I Know my Pz1p drives my 28 - 200mm tamron faster than my K10d does. I'm talking physical speed not time to lock electronically.
01-11-2009, 08:32 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by shuie Quote
I think another factor people ignore is the strength of the focus motor for screw drive lenses. If I'm not mistaken the PZ1p had one of the strongest motors Pentax put in a body. I Know my Pz1p drives my 28 - 200mm tamron faster than my K10d does. I'm talking physical speed not time to lock electronically.
Indeed, and the Z-1p was a joy to use. I have never used the Nikon F5, but from what I have read in the past, its AF motor was so strong some lenses were damaged (especially Sigma).
01-11-2009, 09:45 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lazaruscomeout Quote
pasipasi, I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here.

If I set my K20 to Manual focus and my FA50 to auto aperture and stop it down on the camera, it stays open fully for focusing. This has no impact on my depth of field for the actual shot, which will be at the aperture I have chosen on camera.
I think he is saying in LOW light he needs to use large aperture setting to get enough light so the DOF is narrow and easier to screw up the shot. A good AF system can be better than relying on your eyes and focus screen.
01-11-2009, 12:05 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by karq Quote
So today I compared my K10D to a Nikon D50. I shot some pic in low light and the D50 was much faster.Now I'm thinking to change my setup in near future. Going for a nikon D80 or Canon 40D. Pentax AF s*cks A*s
Don't let the screen door hit you on the way out. Like I said, if AF "speed" is so important, then go with what makes you happy.

Personally I don't have much of an issue with it, and prefer the Pentax glass, the way the K20d works, and most importantly, the quality of the pictures I produce. But I do agree that if you worry about spec sheets, then you should buy Canikon. If you're not willing to learn how to work *with* a Pentax AF system to make good photos, then you should go Canikon. But then what will you have to complain about? I suppose crappy photos, lousy UI and big bulky lenses. Thankfully, humans can always find something to whine about...

01-11-2009, 12:47 PM   #39
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QuoteQuote:
...Going for a nikon D80 or Canon 40D. Pentax AF s*cks A*s
QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Don't let the screen door hit you on the way out. Like I said, if AF "speed" is so important, then go with what makes you happy.
I am with you. The line is crossed when you come into the family living room (this forum), dis the family values (the strong points of the Pentax system), and then cuss as you storm out of the room.

I am curious as to why he even bought Pentax in the first place if AF speed was such a big deal. If it is so crappy, the problem should have been apparent in the store or in the first 24 hours of use at home to allow for a speedy return to exchange for a different system. With any luck, he will buy a D80, figure out that the AF is not that much better and then spend a month or so whining on some Nikon forum about poor control layout, expensive lenses, and poor results. With even better luck, he will then quit Nikon and get a Canon 40D. He can then spend his money on non-Canon glass and shoot to his heart's content until some errant rain drop seeps into his camera's body and ruins his day.

Steve

(Honest about AF and other Pentax issues, love the Pentax handling/controls, also love the Pentax quality/pricing and in-body SR...

Last edited by stevebrot; 01-11-2009 at 02:36 PM.
01-11-2009, 01:42 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote

I am curious as to why he even bought Pentax in the first place if AF speed was such a big deal. If it is so crappy, the problem should have been apparent in the store or in the first 24 hours of use at home to allow for a speedy return to exchange for a different system.
I think the whiners fall into a few categories.

1. People who bought Pentax because it had more megapixels and was cheaper than the "equivalent" competition. They didn't bother to do any due diligence wrt possible issues.

2. People who should own a p&s but instead bought a dSLR. They don't want to take the time or effort to learn how to shoot.

3. People who are more worried about what their buddies think than shooting, and base their self-worth on spec sheets.

4. People who actually have taken the time to work on shooting, but have come to find that Pentax isn't an ideal fit for their needs.

imho there are *very few* of group 4, but there are some. Most fall into the first three categories.

Every system is a trade off and set of compromises. One needs to do a HONEST assessment as to their needs and wants, and then pick the system that fits them best. Pentax is not the holy grail, and it does some things better than others. But buying Pentax for the wrong reasons then whining about it here is a waste of everyone's time. There is nothing to be learned by those who vent, and only serves to amplify known limitations into epic world-ending status. Sadly, you see the same thing on other enthusiast forums, so it is more indicative on the interwebs and human nature. But personally it gets annoying and lowers the signal to noise ratio of this place. So I'm going to continue to call a spade a spade until the mods tell me to quit (this is their house after all).

So my suggestion to the OP (and all other AF complainers) stands. If it is that important to you, then either read the myriad threads around here about how people get decent AF performance from Pentax, or go to another system. Sitting around pissing and moaning and complaining that Canikon is better does *no one* any good. The whining doesn't convince those of us that use Pentax and get good results that our cameras suck. It might push people researching to buy other systems which is sad because they would be missing out on the areas where Pentax excels over Canikon (arguably, and imho). And that is in fact why myself (and likely others) take the time to respond to these whiny rants. Frankly, the AF isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. I have some minor issues, but I have had them with a Nikon in the past. Nothing is perfect...
01-11-2009, 02:17 PM   #41
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sure they do

QuoteOriginally posted by Matt Miller Quote
Yeah, but they've got the best glass by far.
olympus also claim the greatest glass on the market (see the telecentric marketing thingy), sony claims the same, with the zeiss division, minolta probably the same. the fact of the matter is that nikon now has the best wide-to-normal-to-medium thelephoto setup (14-24, 24-70, 85 1.4) while canon has the upper telephoto nicely covered. pentax has some nifty primes like the 31, 77 (a friend tested a horrible copy, but this is another subject) but they can barely stand up to the competition (you got the holy trinity from canon 35 1.4, 50 1,2, 85 1.2, hope i'm not making a mistake, and then you have some of the nikkor glass like the 20 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2, 135 2, 180 2.8, 200 2 ) when it comes to actual shooting terms.

the D80 is a very nice tool, and nikon is acknowledged as the best in terms of ergonomics (in the amateur-anvanced-semipro at least) and menus even by canon users. i think crappy pictures have to do more with the guy/gal behind the camera more than anything else.

hate to crash your party but the film era is over. i see you're recommending the K20D over D80 or xsi's when they arent quite in the same league.
01-11-2009, 02:35 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
. the fact of the matter is that nikon now has the best wide-to-normal-to-medium thelephoto setup (14-24, 24-70, 85 1.4) while canon has the upper telephoto nicely covered. pentax has some nifty primes like the 31, 77 (a friend tested a horrible copy, but this is another subject) but they can barely stand up to the competition (you got the holy trinity from canon 35 1.4, 50 1,2, 85 1.2, hope i'm not making a mistake, and then you have some of the nikkor glass like the 20 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2, 135 2, 180 2.8, 200 2 ) when it comes to actual shooting terms.

the D80 is a very nice tool, and nikon is acknowledged as the best in terms of ergonomics (in the amateur-anvanced-semipro at least) and menus even by canon users. i think crappy pictures have to do more with the guy/gal behind the camera more than anything else.

hate to crash your party but the film era is over. i see you're recommending the K20D over D80 or xsi's when they arent quite in the same league.
Sorry, but you're presenting opinions as fact. And they aren't facts. Nikon has the best wide/normal/med-tele zooms? I wouldn't say that. In fact the Sony/Ziess 24-70/2.8 is about as good as it gets. And Nikon is "acknowledged" as the best ergos? By whom? That is totally subjective. I've owned Nikon and prefer Pentax ergos and layout.

And Pentax ltd primes can "barely stand up" to the competition? On what basis? Price/performance? Spec sheets? Marketing hype?

Why are you here? Do you own/shoot Pentax? I still own a D70, own a K20d, and have played around with D90, D300, and D700. I prefer what I get out of the Pentax. And I know other shooters who have left Nikon for the a900. Nikon makes some great stuff, but it has its own issues, and the files have a certain look that you either like or don't like.

I would (and do) take a K20d with a selection of limited primes over the D90 or D300 or even D700 along with a smattering of Nikon glass (especially if you consider the relative prices). I am considering adding an a900 so that I can shoot the Zeiss 24-70 and 135 with AF as opposed to having to use MF with the Pentax. But that is just me, and everyone has different needs/wants. And that is ok. But your "factual" statements are just opinions, and since you likely don't own or shoot a K20d, based on reading spec sheets and online reviews rather than actual experience.
01-11-2009, 03:00 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
In fact the Sony/Ziess 24-70/2.8 is about as good as it gets.
I took a quick look at the Sony 24-70 group on flickr and they didn't seem as sharp as the Nikon's (though admittedly, the friend who showed me his Nikon 24-70's pics might have had sharpness cranked way up on his JPEGs because he hates PP'ing RAW files :-)
01-11-2009, 03:01 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Sorry, but you're presenting opinions as fact. And they aren't facts. Nikon has the best wide/normal/med-tele zooms? I wouldn't say that. In fact the Sony/Ziess 24-70/2.8 is about as good as it gets. And Nikon is "acknowledged" as the best ergos? By whom? That is totally subjective. I've owned Nikon and prefer Pentax ergos and layout.

And Pentax ltd primes can "barely stand up" to the competition? On what basis? Price/performance? Spec sheets? Marketing hype?

Why are you here? Do you own/shoot Pentax? I still own a D70, own a K20d, and have played around with D90, D300, and D700. I prefer what I get out of the Pentax. And I know other shooters who have left Nikon for the a900. Nikon makes some great stuff, but it has its own issues, and the files have a certain look that you either like or don't like.

I would (and do) take a K20d with a selection of limited primes over the D90 or D300 or even D700 along with a smattering of Nikon glass (especially if you consider the relative prices). I am considering adding an a900 so that I can shoot the Zeiss 24-70 and 135 with AF as opposed to having to use MF with the Pentax. But that is just me, and everyone has different needs/wants. And that is ok. But your "factual" statements are just opinions, and since you likely don't own or shoot a K20d, based on reading spec sheets and online reviews rather than actual experience.

hi nostatic,

i used to shoot both film and digital pentax, i also used the K20, i wanted to upgrade to it but i lost my interest after testing it, i even tried to shoot sport with the K10.

1 good lens and some other slowish AF or manual, albeit very sharp lenses arent going to make zeiss (sony) the number one choice. especially considering the fact that they arent much better than the canikon offerings, prices and the sensors available !!. secondly, nikon cameras (especially semi-pro and advanced zone, in the pro zone the differences are minute) are well known for the user-friendly design and menus, if anything, please check a small phrase DPR used in the D80's review:

..In-use performance also feels as though it's a step above its price class..[] There's also ergonomic performance, the camera is smaller than the D70/D70s but not at the expense of usability, the hand grip is a good size and shape (and considerably more comfortable than the EOS 400D) and all controls are within reach. Other small details such as button size and placement are simply just right.

and a bit from the D200:

So with the negative out of the way I can now say that I really enjoyed the D200. It's one of those cameras which you look forward to picking up, I really got on with its design and ergonomics, it's small enough not to break your back yet sturdy enough to feel absolutely purposeful, solid and reliable. It fills the photographer with an air of confidence that each time they need it the camera is going to perform. It also has an air of luxury, quality and thoughtful design which other cameras sometimes miss, manufacturers mustn't forget that many professional photographers have to 'live' with their camera day in day out, thinking hard about how it should feel and operate can really make a big difference. Nikon know about good design and it shows, the D200 is a great camera to get along with.

the confidence in my statements derives from all those days in the field with all of those cameras and lenses, photo meetings with friends from various systems and, not least, various internet reviews (you can''t test them all), and, in my defense, i have to say that this is the only "brand" forum i am affiliated to.
01-11-2009, 03:11 PM   #45
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Then please go post on a Nikon forum. Your love of your D80 combined with quoting of DP Reviews really adds nothing to the discussion here. I doubt you have any serious time with a K20d, but if you do then obviously you have found that the D80 is a superior solution *for you.* That is your opinion, and not fact. And while fascinating, I'm not really sure why you feel the need to "contribute" on a Pentax forum. I understand your original posts when you were trying to decide about upgrading from a DS, but why now that you've gone to Nikon? What is the impetus to post here? To save the stupid souls that continue to use Pentax and make them see the light of the superior Nikon system? Or save those who are considering from making the horrible decision to go with Pentax?

Or is it just to make yourself feel better about your purchase? And I"m sure that now in your "photo meetings" with your friends you don't have to have to suffer from that inferiority complex that comes with owning Pentax. Thankfully, I get great shots from my system, and I don't give a flying fark what my "photo buddies" use, nor do I listen to much of anything that is at DPR. But if it makes you feel better...
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