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01-11-2009, 03:42 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
olympus also claim the greatest glass on the market (see the telecentric marketing thingy), sony claims the same, with the zeiss division, minolta probably the same. the fact of the matter is that nikon now has the best wide-to-normal-to-medium thelephoto setup (14-24, 24-70, 85 1.4) while canon has the upper telephoto nicely covered. pentax has some nifty primes like the 31, 77 (a friend tested a horrible copy, but this is another subject) but they can barely stand up to the competition (you got the holy trinity from canon 35 1.4, 50 1,2, 85 1.2, hope i'm not making a mistake, and then you have some of the nikkor glass like the 20 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2, 135 2, 180 2.8, 200 2 ) when it comes to actual shooting terms.
Anyone reading this is just MY opinion having owned Pentax for years and then Olympus and now also Nikon... I am waiting for the new 35/2 SDM and 15/4 to invest in Pentax again, with a K-m (once they drop in price) that will be an awesome ultraportable quality combo for me to compliment my hopefully D700 by then..

First you will notice on ALL forums the users of all the systems go on about how their brand has the best glass and best ergonomics, its really funny (I prefer to look at it that way than get angry at them)...

To me, Olympus does have some amazing zooms and the BEST wide to telephoto zoom on the market with the Olympus 12-60 (24-120), a good number of review sites agree with me there, it was my favourite aspect of Olympus.. Problem is they have a rather limited range, limited support from 3rd party lens makers and very few wide-normal fast primes (unless you can afford the PanaLieca 25/1.4).. Ohh and they are not the only ones making near telecentric lenses they just brag about it more..

Nikon and Canon both cover high end telephoto zooms and primes better than anyone else. It is not quality (though they are amazingly high in IQ and price) it is just simply the range of models they have at that level, that other companies don't bother with... If you need that stuff then its a choice between them I guess.

For Pentax (ok don't shoot me) I have never really been impressed with their modern zooms, though thankfully I prefer primes and their range is very very good, and their bodies are great value for money.

Canon has a massive range but I just find the output from their lenses often very flat without considerable PP... But thats subjective too I guess..

Now I like Nikon they have a good 'balance' that suits me at the moment.. but your list is a bit unfair (20 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2, 135 2, 180 2.8, 200 2) yes the 200/2VR is awesome (high IQ and price), as is the 135/2 and the 180/2.8 is a real bargain especially on the used market, but the others you listed (20/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.2) are all old manual focus lenses that don't even work fully (apeture control) on their most popular models (D40, D60, D70, D80, D90) and two of three are out of production I believe...

Hourses for courses...


Last edited by joele; 01-11-2009 at 03:49 PM.
01-11-2009, 03:49 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
...i see you're recommending the K20D over D80 or xsi's when they arent quite in the same league...

Nope, they are not in the same league, they are just similarly priced...

Steve
01-11-2009, 04:07 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Then please go post on a Nikon forum. Your love of your D80 combined with quoting of DP Reviews really adds nothing to the discussion here. I doubt you have any serious time with a K20d, but if you do then obviously you have found that the D80 is a superior solution *for you.* That is your opinion, and not fact. And while fascinating, I'm not really sure why you feel the need to "contribute" on a Pentax forum. I understand your original posts when you were trying to decide about upgrading from a DS, but why now that you've gone to Nikon? What is the impetus to post here? To save the stupid souls that continue to use Pentax and make them see the light of the superior Nikon system? Or save those who are considering from making the horrible decision to go with Pentax?

Or is it just to make yourself feel better about your purchase? And I"m sure that now in your "photo meetings" with your friends you don't have to have to suffer from that inferiority complex that comes with owning Pentax. Thankfully, I get great shots from my system, and I don't give a flying fark what my "photo buddies" use, nor do I listen to much of anything that is at DPR. But if it makes you feel better...
well, i'm quite happy with my purchase thank you, and have been for quite some time. the only reason i picked up the D80 instead of a D200 or even a D300 was, predictably, the glass that i could buy with the leftover cash. i invite you to view just a fraction of my work with the D80, i'm just starting to really catch on:
some wedding shots with D80


i want to make it clear that i would not and have not recommended the D80 over the K20D, as i previously stated, they aren't even in the same market zone. my argument was that tha AF in the K20D might not be a better choice instead of the "cheaper" AF in the D80, especially in low-light.

and then came the thing with pentax having the best glass, which is simply not true, considering the offerings from the competition.

i still have frinds shooting pentax, it;s not like i would be the only one in the bunch. however, i stoped recommending entry level Pentax to folks after i kinda lost a friend who was really unhappy with a K200 and F(A) 50 1.4 that i might have pushed him into (while being a happy nikon user myself) reccomended (low light hunting and noise levels).

i just had to buy some stuff for professional use and i picked a nikon that met my minimum demands, but with some really decent glass, and i only begin to feel the advantages of a mature system.

the reason why i started posting in the first place was the not-very realistic considerations made by (possibly unexperienced) pentax users, when comparing various pentax products with the competition.

sorry about the DPR quotes, i had to sustain my claims in some kind of way, without wasting too much of my time.

honestly speaking, would you really prefere the K20 instead of the D300 ?? i don;t really buy that, but i guess it better suits your needs. what about the D700 then, would you trade that in for a K20D ? not likely this one, not if you are truly into photography. sorry , as ever, anyone disputing Olympus or Pentax versus CaNikon is just waisting time.

i wasn't really trying to save souls, but rather share some knowledge. the end result - quite simply - is always the same.


for joele: i was talking about legendary lenses, not ones you cand buy off the shelf right now. i worked with a guy owning a 20 1,4 and it simply is a gem, and a nearby store features a 50 1.2 lens wich is, all things said, a very good lens.

they might not work on the D40-D90 range, but a 3000 $ lens is not the first choice for someone buying a 700 $ body

Last edited by nicolaie; 01-11-2009 at 04:18 PM.
01-11-2009, 04:10 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
well, i'm quite happy with my purchase thank you, and have been for quite some time. the only reason i picked up the D80 instead of a D200 or even a D300 was, predictably, the glass that i could buy with the leftover cash. i invite you to view just a fraction of my work with the D80, i'm just starting to really catch on:
some wedding shots with D80
Nice shots for sure, but honestly, it's pretty damn hard to show off image quality and camera performance with a Youtube slideshow, those could've been done with just about any DSLR setup.

01-11-2009, 04:30 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
honestly speaking, would you really prefere the K20 instead of the D300 ?? i don;t really buy that, but i guess it better suits your needs. what about the D700 then, would you trade that in for a K20D ? not likely this one, not if you are truly into photography. sorry , as ever, anyone disputing Olympus or Pentax versus CaNikon is just waisting time.
I have and did. The D300 body is bigger, heavier, has a less intuitive interface (to me). I prefer to shoot small prime lenses, and for that Pentax smokes Nikon. The D700 is even bigger and heavier, and again, then I'm stuck with Nikon glass that I don't care for. I don't like zooms or flash (though I will use my 50-135* when I need to).

Here is some of my work:

yosemite08 - Page 1 and hk08 - Page 1 (though many of the latter are done with a p&s).

Not a youtube montage of wedding photos but you can tell me if I'm "truly into photography." The bottom line is that your attitude is narrow minded imho. Different photographers have different needs and desires. Pentax is a better solution *for me* and the way that I shoot. Your belief that Canikon is in a different league than Olympus and Pentax just proves to me that you have drank the marketing koolaid.

There are very real advantages to Pentax or Olympus over Canikon. It just depends on who's doing the shooting, how they work, and their preferences. If you're into spec sheets, then Canikon wins. If you're making art, then it is a different matter. The bottom line is that you can make art with any brand, and you can shoot pro with any brand. And if you don't understand that someone can find Pentax to be a superior tool than Nikon for making art (or shooting "pro"), then I can't help you. Because you truly don't get it...
01-11-2009, 04:44 PM   #51
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What I find hilarious, is that the CaNikOny folks feeling the need to come on to PentaxForums.Com to talk down the Pentax.

You folks *THAT* bored, that you'd rather be talking down Pentaxen, than shooting with your precious cameras?
I don't get it??

'nuff said there....

We move on.... I came from P&S, and an OLD one at that, and I shopped around for weeks, played touchie-feely in the stores, built a little spreadsheet, etc..

The XSi felt like a dang TOY in my hand - Lord help a person who drops it.

D40/D40x/D60x don't even have focus motors in the body, and the D80 is what? 3 years old?
No I'm not a Pentax fanboi (yet) but to me, it just made sense - why spend the same money on nearly 3year-old technology?

I got a CMOS 14.5MP sensor, and a good feature set, and I'm quite thrilled! Been using it, no issues, AF is fine with me.

So, you CaNikony fanbois can have your spec-sheet .4S AF advantage, and I'll keep my k20D, thank you, because I KNOW I have a better camera, and the proof is all the twits coming on here talking it down.

Buyer's remorse, maybe? Trying to make yourself feel better because you bought a camera that feels like it was made by Fisher-price?
Or maybe because your ticked off that we can use 20-30year-old glass, with AF, and your SuperDuperInfallible Nikon has no focus motor in-body?

Or maybe because ya gotta pay a premium for those IS lenses with a built-in motor?

Or maybe because you plunked down $750 on a camera from 2006, and now ya feel REALLY stupid?

Or maybe because while it's snowing/raining we are still shooting, while CaNikOny owners went diving for cover?

'nuff said.

Tony
01-11-2009, 04:48 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Nice shots for sure, but honestly, it's pretty damn hard to show off image quality and camera performance with a Youtube slideshow, those could've been done with just about any DSLR setup.
you are right, here are some pics i took, resized as i saw fit at that moment. please excuse the rather pronounced noise at full size, i thrashed them in Photoshop, i am not the most experienced o users. however, the primary destination for the files was printing in 10x15 cm, or 13x18, for the most of them that is, or, being viewed on a 1280x1024 monitor.









it seems that the forum turns a 800 kilo jpeg into a 80 kilo jpeg .

ok, i will try to supress my future temptations to post here.

have a nice day
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01-11-2009, 04:53 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sharkonwheels Quote
What I find hilarious, is that the CaNikOny folks feeling the need to come on to PentaxForums.Com to talk down the Pentax.

You folks *THAT* bored, that you'd rather be talking down Pentaxen, than shooting with your precious cameras?
I don't get it??

'nuff said there....

We move on.... I came from P&S, and an OLD one at that, and I shopped around for weeks, played touchie-feely in the stores, built a little spreadsheet, etc..

The XSi felt like a dang TOY in my hand - Lord help a person who drops it.

D40/D40x/D60x don't even have focus motors in the body, and the D80 is what? 3 years old?
No I'm not a Pentax fanboi (yet) but to me, it just made sense - why spend the same money on nearly 3year-old technology?

I got a CMOS 14.5MP sensor, and a good feature set, and I'm quite thrilled! Been using it, no issues, AF is fine with me.

So, you CaNikony fanbois can have your spec-sheet .4S AF advantage, and I'll keep my k20D, thank you, because I KNOW I have a better camera, and the proof is all the twits coming on here talking it down.

Buyer's remorse, maybe? Trying to make yourself feel better because you bought a camera that feels like it was made by Fisher-price?
Or maybe because your ticked off that we can use 20-30year-old glass, with AF, and your SuperDuperInfallible Nikon has no focus motor in-body?

Or maybe because ya gotta pay a premium for those IS lenses with a built-in motor?

Or maybe because you plunked down $750 on a camera from 2006, and now ya feel REALLY stupid?

Or maybe because while it's snowing/raining we are still shooting, while CaNikOny owners went diving for cover?

'nuff said.

Tony
well said Tony.

01-11-2009, 04:55 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
it seems that the forum turns a 800 kilo jpeg into a 80 kilo jpeg .

ok, i will try to supress my future temptations to post here.

have a nice day
Nice pics of a very happy couple. Sorry you had to experience the bad behavior when attaching files to a post. The site software munges anything you upload and the results are usually not so good. It is better to link to an image located elsewhere on the Web instead of doing an attachment.

Steve
01-11-2009, 05:01 PM   #55
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In those pictures, I don't see anything that couldn't be done as well with ANY other make, be it Sony, Pentax, Olympus...Nothing to write home about. They are all good pictures, properly exposed and so on, but they are not exceptional.
01-11-2009, 05:08 PM   #56
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K20D is the top offering from Pentax, not even matching the D300. nuff said about pentax keeping up. i've seen your pics, you could have taken them with a pinhole for christ sake. i'm talking "grab the moment or get the shot or you get sued by the customers" kind of photography here.

a BW panoramma is not going to prove anything about the sensor, and a pannoramma isn't going to prove anything about the camera's AF system. i congratulate you for using you camera however, it;s nice to have a talk with another fellow photographer. you are right, you can make art with just about anything, it all depends on what kind of art you are planning on shooting.


for Sharkonweels:

my friend, we are not even in the same class in terms of photographic knowledge and experience, so ill only say this to you:

as a photographer, my goal is to sell useable prints, not 3 year old technology, or 2 days old tehcnology for that matter. my clients seem to enjoy them quite alot, so those old CCD's still have some cards up their sleeves. or, if i don;t sell the prints, i use those pics for my own enjoyment, and they do the trick every single time. the price you pay for those IS lenses it's the price you pay for top notch quality of construction, of the image, and maximum image stabilisation. there is no such thing as a free meal and i did shot in the light rain and snow with the D80. can you shoot in the rain, with the 18-55 attached ? or the 50 1.5 or..

yes, they are the pics of a happy couple. the ones that i selected, and the ones i could upload, once selected, are quite average, i sorta selected them on the run. i don't even claim that the D80 is something unseen or unheard of, it is just a camera that does all the things i require from it.

as i said, i don't consider the D80 superior to the K20, or the K10 for that matter, i just think that for it is a very viable alternative, with a safe AF system, and it does what it supposed to do. and, if i need a good lens i can get it, IS or no IS, f/1.4 or f/3.5-6.7, 50 or 3500 dollars. and if i need a better body, and so on.

there are alot of things unsaid about the pics i just attached, in that youtube film you might have noticed multiple flash sources. easy with nikon, i raised the internal blitz, set the 2 SB's on slave, TTL, and fired away, with settings changeable in seconds. it;s all there, and alot more, that is unsaid. an experienced user takes alot of these factors in calculation before making a decision.

Last edited by nicolaie; 01-11-2009 at 05:23 PM.
01-11-2009, 05:14 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
for joele: i was talking about legendary lenses, not ones you cand buy off the shelf right now. i worked with a guy owning a 20 1,4 and it simply is a gem, and a nearby store features a 50 1.2 lens wich is, all things said, a very good lens.

they might not work on the D40-D90 range, but a 3000 $ lens is not the first choice for someone buying a 700 $ body
Me and many more balanced people here would easilly admit that the currently in production Pentax lens line for bodies currently in production is not as complete as it should be, and this is often discussed here, though they have a very impressive set of primes (below extreme tele).

But if you try to support your arguments based on old legacy Nikon lenses, manual even, not all in production, that are not even compatible with all currently produced Nikon bodies, you are on dangerous ground, because then you should bring up Pentax legacy lenses as well, and there are plenty of gems there, and you can measure through them all on current Pentax bodies!
Don't paint yourself into a corner!
01-11-2009, 05:24 PM   #58
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AF of K10D with FA 80-320mm
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01-11-2009, 05:25 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
for Sharkonweels:

my friend, we are not even in the same class in terms of photographic knowledge and experience, so ill only say this to you:
Yep - that's for sure.

The sad part, is that I'm a TOTAL n00b, owned a dSLR for not even 4 weeks, yet I can spot you as a trolling fanboi from miles away. Thankfully, I was able to ignore all that noise, and purchased my K20D. I didn't buy my camera, so I could go around bragging about .5S faster AF lock.

I bought MY camera for ME - I wanted to have fun - I don't WANT to be a professional photographer, I do well in my day job, thanks. If it's your profession, well, then by what you need, or feel is best to do your job, but coming on here talking trash is, well, childish.

Personally, I don't care WHAT you won, WHAT you have, WHAT you bought, WHAT you use, or HOW you use it.

But somehow, you feel the need to come in here and belittle the Pentax?
WTF for? Are you THAT insecure?

Lastly, do you REALLY think, that anyone on PentaxForums actually CARES about your opinions of Pentax gear?

Seriously - you need to get out more.

Tony
"L O V I N G His Pentax K20D"
01-11-2009, 05:26 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
K20D is the top offering from Pentax, not even matching the D300. nuff said about pentax keeping up. i've seen your pics, you could have taken them with a pinhole for christ sake. i'm talking "grab the moment or get the shot or you get sued by the customers" kind of photography here.
That's funny...a wedding photographer who posts youtube videos talking smack.

I am certainly constantly learning, but I do have an aesthetic that has evolved over the past few years. I worry about what I see. You worry about getting sued. So that makes you superior and actually adds weight to your inane comments? That's funny.

And frankly. I *could* have taken some of my pics with a pinhole camera. And I *did* take some of them with a P&S. My g/f sold some of her photos taken with a 5mp p&s. Each one went for $5K. Then again, she's an artist. Not a photo geek...
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