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01-11-2009, 05:26 PM   #61
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NICE shot - in "mid-flap".

Tony

01-11-2009, 05:29 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sharkonwheels Quote
NICE shot - in "mid-flap".

Tony
Yeah, but just think what a D80 could have done with that shot. It would have turned the pigeon into an eagle!
01-11-2009, 05:31 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Yeah, but just think what a D80 could have done with that shot. It would have turned the pigeon into an eagle!
Ohhh, yeah - you mean the Nikon Majestic-D filter? Forgot about that!

Tony
01-11-2009, 05:33 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
K20D is the top offering from Pentax, not even matching the D300. nuff said about pentax keeping up. i've seen your pics, you could have taken them with a pinhole for christ sake. i'm talking "grab the moment or get the shot or you get sued by the customers" kind of photography here.
If you're shooting the kind of stuff where you'd get sued for screwing it up, why on earth are you shooting with a D80? If I had gigs I got paid well for and wanted to be safe I'd be shooting with a body that support dual memory cards, or possibly with two bodies alternating which one to use.

01-11-2009, 05:33 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sharkonwheels Quote
Isn't this just software in the firmware?
Am I wrong in assuming if they corrected it for the K-m/K2000, that it shouldn't be all that hard to roll it over to the K20D? AF subsystems are similar between the two, aren't they? I mean, seriously, the K20D is supposed to be their top of the line.
It would be a bit embarrassing for them if the K-m had a better AF system than their top-line K20D!

Boj's Pen-K site shows the K20D AF as using SAFOX VIII with 11 sensors, the K-m AF as using SAFOX VIII with 5 sensors.
Could it be that utilizing only 5 sensors make it faster?

Tony
Autofocus is to a great deal about software.

Compared to the K20D the K-m shouldn't even have improved if you look at the specs because the K-m has much less AF points. But it appears that something must have changed. Processor? We can only guess that something else have limited the SAFOX performance. It may be a too simple explanation that the lower number of points would speed it up. The review describe it not only as faster, but that it nailed the focus, when the Nikon and Canon corresponding entry models hunted (even with aid light), so it appears to be as much a qualitative as quantitative improvement. Mind you the referee was pusseled by how close the 5 AF sensors was on the K-m, but yet it worked better than the competition.

There is almost a year between the K20D and the K-m and things move fast on the camera market now. As someone noted when the Hoya 6 month economical report was depated on this forum, Hoya had allowed/given the Pentax branch a much larger R&D budget than any other branch. So perhaps Hoya/Pentax has finally decided to do something about the AF? Perhaps the K-m, a low end entry model, just gives a hint of what this will mean on a K300D and K30D or whatever they will be called. That will only embarrasing if the K30D does not follow up this AF improvement.

As for firware updates, sure I wouldn't mind to get this implied on my K20D if possible, but why would they realy do that. I wont buy a K30D or maybe not even a K300D if I can upgrade my K20D to some sort of K25D.
01-11-2009, 05:37 PM   #66
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well, i was talking about lenses on the market, or owned by people i kow, it was a general consideration regarding legendary and accesible primes. i previously stated that i consider nikon superior in the sub tele zone because of the 14-24, 24-70 and 85 1.4, wich seem to be better than the canon counterparts (if there are any, the 14-24 is starting to become a sort of a habit amongst canon users too ), and the 85 1.4 is inexistent), and completely lack in current pentax offerings. now i remember that the 70-200 VR seems to be a tad better than the canon counterpart, or ar the same level to say the least, so you can stay in touch in the tele zone, somewhat. sure, you also have a 300 2.8, 400 2.8, 600 f/4, but it seems that they still have to prove themselves somewhat.

i shoot a D80 because i did not have the money for a D3, i had to buy good lenses and flash. i am not the greatest wedding photographer, i am only shooting for less than a year in this area, i have plenty of time to perfect my aesthetics. and yes, you can get sued if a wedding goes wrong, with of without the D3.

that seagull pic is so blurry and the color is not great at all, it's not even worth posting. also, tallent has nothing to do with the camera you shoot, as Henry Cartier-Bresson once said:


"They . . . asked me:
"'How do you make your pictures?' I was puzzled . . .
"I said, 'I don't know, it's not important.' -


but there are times and applications that require the max you can get. i see alot of mixed opinions, both from noobies and photographers. i have no interest or real gain in replying to this topic, i have proven myself without calling anyone names. grow up.

Last edited by nicolaie; 01-11-2009 at 05:52 PM.
01-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
now i remember that the 70-200 VR seems to be a tad better than the canon counterpart
On DX I agree, but corners are bad on FX..

Anyway I am feeling the bug to go shoot something.. have a good day/night all....

01-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #68
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There is nothing to argue about. Canon & Nikon have the best cameras and lenses.
Had I enough cash I would have bought Canon for telephoto shots and Nikon D3x & Nikkor 14-24mm. If I was a wedding photographer I would have S5Pro with Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 AF-S. And I would have Leica M8 with one or a couple of its 50mm lenses to carry around at night. And Rolleiflex or Hasselblad or both if I was shooting landscapes.

It’s pretty much K200D or anything bellow with one or two zooms assembled in Vietnam for me at the moment. With good chances these lenses would need to be serviced. And a bag of lenses from a flea market which are older than I.

01-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #69
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Now, guys in the Spring - early summer of 08 Nicolae PM-ed me here for an opinion about K20D and I gave him my take on it. The way I see it unlike many of us who are "into photography" by passion he earns a living from it and for weddings/events photography I guess Nikon system is better (low light AF, flash system and so on). More so probably he feels more like a pro with a Nikon gear (or at least his customers feel like he is more of a pro) which of course is a plus for him. And knowing him from some Romanian forums I think he's pretty balanced in his opinions and neither a troll nor a fanboy. He's just a man who needs a tool and pick what he thought suited him the best. In the past he was passionate about Pentax now probably he's more into Nikon I don't see a big issue here.

@Nicolae - I don't agree with your take on lenses and honestly I don't know what 20/1.4 or modern 50/1.2 in F mount you're talking about. Unless the 50/1.2 is the Canon and you wanted to emphasis that the "big 2" have lens choices that we don't. I don't think I have to remind you how much many of the lenses you quoted cost and how much is the difference in our country between K20D's price and D300 let alone D700. I also want to remind you that the type of work you do suits Pentax less than Nikon now but this doesn't mean that for ANY TYPE of work for example D300 is better than K20D or that ALL of us will not "really prefere the K20 instead of the D300". My standard reaction about this "complete lens range" issue is to ask: "OK, and what lenses from the list you flashed before our eyes do YOU OWN?" 20 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2, 135 2, 180 2.8, 200 2?
BTW, you may want to remove the pictures you put for legal reasons (you cannot show private pictures without consent) even though you may think they support your opinions.

Salut!
Radu
01-11-2009, 05:50 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
I also want to remind you that the type of work you do suits Pentax less than Nikon now but this doesn't mean that for ANY TYPE of work for example D300 is better than K20D or that ALL of us will not "really prefere the K20 instead of the D300". My standard reaction about this "complete lens range" issue is to ask: "OK, and what lenses from the list you flashed before our eyes do YOU OWN?" 20 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2, 135 2, 180 2.8, 200 2?
This is my biggest issue with his comments. Blanket statements about what is "best" and insisting that Canikon is king, others are lesser tools. That is just nonsense.

Each brand has limitations throughout the lineup. What is "best" for a particular person depends on a whole bunch of factors, the greatest of which is shooting style. I have no doubt that Nikon is the best choice for our friend here. And if having a Nikon strap around his neck gets him more business, that is great. But it is *not* the best solution for everyone. There are a variety of pros who shoot Pentax and likely make a lot more money than our friend. So to suggest that Pentax cannot be used in a "serious" manner is not only disingenuous, it is false.
01-11-2009, 05:52 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
well, i was talking about lenses on the market, or owned by people i kow, it was a general consideration regarding legendary and accesible primes. i previously stated that i consider nikon superior in the sub tele zone because of the 14-24, 24-70 and 85 1.4, wich seem to be better than the canon counterparts (if there are any, the 14-24 is starting to become a sort of a habit amongst canon users too ), and the 85 1.4 is inexistent), and completely lack in current pentax offerings. now i remember that the 70-200 VR seems to be a tad better than the canon counterpart, or ar the same level to say the least, so you can stay in touch in the tele zone, somewhat. sure, you also have a 300 2.8, 400 2.8, , 600 f/4, but it seems that they still have to prove themselves somewhat.
Well, the only lens of those I care about is the 85/1.4 and I have the Pentax A*85/1.4 in my bag and from the comparisons I have seen it does not stand down to anything Nikon or Canon have to offer in 85mm.
Leaving film cameras and legacy lenses, Pentax is just about to release the DA*55/1.4 optimised for portrait and on APS-C corresponding to the old film A*/FA*85's. But in line with what RaduA writes, the only lenses that matters for any photographer is those he/she needs for his purpose and have in his/her bag because he/she can afford them.
01-11-2009, 05:59 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
you are right, here are some pics i took, resized as i saw fit at that moment. please excuse the rather pronounced noise at full size, i thrashed them in Photoshop, i am not the most experienced o users. however, the primary destination for the files was printing in 10x15 cm, or 13x18, for the most of them that is, or, being viewed on a 1280x1024 monitor.









it seems that the forum turns a 800 kilo jpeg into a 80 kilo jpeg .

ok, i will try to supress my future temptations to post here.

have a nice day
I like #1 a lot! But I would blame the photographer rather than the gear. As someone stated, it is nothing that cannot be done with Pentax gear.
I like that you dare to tilt the camera in #2, but there is too much wall to my liking.
#3 is overexposed. I suppose that is because of all the white clothing that fooled the camera. I would have cut #4 differently, less sky, but it could as well have been shot with a P&S in this format.
I do like #1 a lot. 85mm?
01-11-2009, 06:10 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Now, guys in the Spring - early summer of 08 Nicolae PM-ed me here for an opinion about K20D and I gave him my take on it. The way I see it unlike many of us who are "into photography" by passion he earns a living from it and for weddings/events photography I guess Nikon system is better (low light AF, flash system and so on). More so probably he feels more like a pro with a Nikon gear (or at least his customers feel like he is more of a pro) which of course is a plus for him. And knowing him from some Romanian forums I think he's pretty balanced in his opinions and neither a troll nor a fanboy. He's just a man who needs a tool and pick what he thought suited him the best. In the past he was passionate about Pentax now probably he's more into Nikon I don't see a big issue here.

@Nicolae - I don't agree with your take on lenses and honestly I don't know what 20/1.4 or modern 50/1.2 in F mount you're talking about. Unless the 50/1.2 is the Canon and you wanted to emphasis that the "big 2" have lens choices that we don't. I don't think I have to remind you how much many of the lenses you quoted cost and how much is the difference in our country between K20D's price and D300 let alone D700. I also want to remind you that the type of work you do suits Pentax less than Nikon now but this doesn't mean that for ANY TYPE of work for example D300 is better than K20D or that ALL of us will not "really prefere the K20 instead of the D300". My standard reaction about this "complete lens range" issue is to ask: "OK, and what lenses from the list you flashed before our eyes do YOU OWN?" 20 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.2, 135 2, 180 2.8, 200 2?
BTW, you may want to remove the pictures you put for legal reasons (you cannot show private pictures without consent) even though you may think they support your opinions.

Salut!
Radu
Thank you Radu for adding history and a Romanian perspective to this discussion. It is easy to label a person as a troll or worse when we don't know anything about them. As has been noted by several people on this thread, the choice of camera and lenses depends so much on the type of photography one does. For the kind of photography I do, at my budget level, and with my large hands, the K10D was the clear choice when I bought mine almost two years ago. I could have bought a D80 or a Rebel, but neither met my needs at the time regardless of price.

Among all the factors I considered, these things were really not part of the equation:
  • State-of-the-art AF speed
  • Frames per second
  • Availability of incredible lenses that I could not afford

Strangely, they still aren't. Now does that mean that I have inferior photography knowledge? Well, maybe. I am sure that there are substantial gaps in my knowledge of classic glass. I am also not too good at studio flash setup. (I tend to do easy stuff like macro and landscapes...) I have only been doing this as a hobby and that only since the late 1960s. I have only sold a few photos and except for the occasional blue ribbon at the fair, have no awards.

Rather than feel inferior, I choose to think that I just have different needs. Those needs may change if I start doing birds in flight or weddings (pray, nooooo!) or performance gigs. Until that time, I figure I will continue to extract the maximum value from what I have already spent for camera and lenses.

Steve

(BTW...If I were shopping today, it would be hard to choose between the K20D, the D300, and 40D. All three are very nice and all three have their strengths.)
01-11-2009, 06:15 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
I like #1 a lot! But I would blame the photographer rather than the gear. As someone stated, it is nothing that cannot be done with Pentax gear.
I like that you dare to tilt the camera in #2, but there is too much wall to my liking.
#3 is overexposed. I suppose that is because of all the white clothing that fooled the camera. I would have cut #4 differently, less sky, but it could as well have been shot with a P&S in this format.
I do like #1 a lot. 85mm?


hello, thanks for your considerations, the pic with too much sky is deliberately cropped like that. i do alot of postproccesing from raw and sometimes i get bored of the same old framing in the group shots. also, i am inclined to overexpose the shots, go for a lighter look. no, pic no.1 is not shot with an 85, i discovered that i have no real application for that focal length since i allready own an 50 1.4. it's shot with a 105 mm.

thank you for the intervention radu, and thanks for the help you gave me in the spring. i went in the shop and tested the K20, it didn't met my expectations.
i lost some money while selling my pentax stuff, kept the backpack though, and i still admire my work on the DL, i have tones of this stuff.








i was curious about some specs on a K30D, that is the reason for my presence here.


have a great new year
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01-11-2009, 06:19 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Thank you Radu for adding history and a Romanian perspective to this discussion. It is easy to label a person as a troll or worse when we don't know anything about them. As has been noted by several people on this thread, the choice of camera and lenses depends so much on the type of photography one does. For the kind of photography I do, at my budget level, and with my large hands, the K10D was the clear choice when I bought mine almost two years ago. I could have bought a D80 or a Rebel, but neither met my needs at the time regardless of price.

Among all the factors I considered, these things were really not part of the equation:
  • State-of-the-art AF speed
  • Frames per second
  • Availability of incredible lenses that I could not afford

Strangely, they still aren't. Now does that mean that I have inferior photography knowledge? Well, maybe. I am sure that there are substantial gaps in my knowledge of classic glass. I am also not too good at studio flash setup. (I tend to do easy stuff like macro and landscapes...) I have only been doing this as a hobby and that only since the late 1960s. I have only sold a few photos and except for the occasional blue ribbon at the fair, have no awards.

Rather than feel inferior, I choose to think that I just have different needs. Those needs may change if I start doing birds in flight or weddings (pray, nooooo!) or performance gigs. Until that time, I figure I will continue to extract the maximum value from what I have already spent for camera and lenses.

Steve

(BTW...If I were shopping today, it would be hard to choose between the K20D, the D300, and 40D. All three are very nice and all three have their strengths.)
You're welcome Steve and I should add that here is already over 3 A.M. so maybe we're a bit tired and impulsive Unfortunatelly here (and in general in the EU) prices are not as good for Canon or Nikon like in the States (fact which made my choice in 2006 to become a Pentaxian easier)!

Regards,
Radu
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