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01-12-2009, 11:59 AM   #91
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Yet another straw argument. No one ever said that the equipment wasn't important. The point is that people make choices based on a variety of criteria. You made sweeping generalizations (Canikon is superior, the rest aren't serious) which smacks of elitist fanboy BS.

This thread isn't feel-good, but rather just another whine. If this was actually some sort of productive dialogue about AF that would be one thing. But it isn't, and you're chiming in with your statements about the inherent superiority of Nikon for all things photographic just seem to add to the nonsense. From your shots I can say that you do have technical skills, but I don't particularly care for your aesthetic. And that really shouldn't make any difference because I'm not your client. You have a single purpose - to please you client. My purpose is to please myself and if others see it then all the better (and in fact some do). Thankfully I get to explore and evolve my approach on my own terms, except when I have to shoot for projects associated with my day job. But even then my eye comes into play, and thankfully my boss approves.

01-12-2009, 12:54 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
well, to be technically exact, you also could strap a mast and some sails to the roof of your car and drive your way around without even needing to stop at any petrol station.

<snip...>

now that i think about it you are right, us professional photographers (i can barely call myself professional..)

<Snip...>
also, i think it is a little strange you should ask me and other canikonians to leave the discution since the thread title sais "Pentax vs. Canon vs. Nikon AF"

was this supposed to be another one of those feel-good threads where someone would just point out in the end that you don't actually really need AF at all? you say you are not commited to any brand, but your post dissagrees with you.
Are you STILL here?

Seriously - is there not a NIKONZEALOTS.COM forum or something?

WHY do you feel compelled to come onto PENTAXFORUMS.COM and talk trash about Pentaxes, and about how great Nikon's are?

I just don't get it - Radu came in here defending you, saying you're NOT a troll, but I disagee...

Why?

Because you're STILL TROLLING

I still can't believe you'd rather be ON HERE whining and moaning like a b!tch about Pentax gear, instead of being out USING that superior Nikon gear!

Me personally, I can't freaking WAIT for sunlight/photo ops so I can use my gear.
It can say Fisher-Price, or Kia, or Hyundai, or Mattel on it for all I care - I just want to USE it!


Tony
01-12-2009, 12:59 PM   #93
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At the risk of jumping into a flame war, let me add my recent experiences.

I have the K20D and a variety of DA* lenses. Recently (due to other posts about Pentax's supposed low-light AF woes), I was out taking shots with the K20D and DA*16-50. I found that even in very low light (so dim that I couldn't read a newspaper in the light), the AF-C was quick and accurate. I was shooting in a skating rink at f/2.8 and ISO 3200 with shutter speeds around 1/15s to 1/30s and 90% of the time, I just pointed and shot, with excellent AF performance. Now, the shots are too noisy (due to it being dark), but I just wanted to see how it performed. For me, it was perfectly acceptable, and anything quicker would have been wasted (fraction of a second, to even smaller fractions of a second).

My conclusion is that Pentax AF works for me, especially with the DA*16-50 on the K20D. Other brands may be "faster", but none of them would have gotten me a better shot, except for maybe the D700 with it's full frame sensor and lower noise (and 3X price tag).

Obviously, YMMV, but I just don't see this as an issue.
01-12-2009, 01:59 PM   #94
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The topic is certainly interesting. Everyone, please keep the conversation civilised (civilized) and most people in the thread are doing exactly that.

01-12-2009, 05:58 PM   #95
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I read threads like this with bafflement (and - to my shame - with some amusement), since well-adjusted folks simply buy and use what suits them and feel no compulsion to promote or defend their choices on internet forums.

Jer
01-12-2009, 06:07 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sailor Quote
I read threads like this with bafflement (and - to my shame - with some amusement), since well-adjusted folks simply buy and use what suits them and feel no compulsion to promote or defend their choices on internet forums.

Jer
Fun, isn't it? I do my best not to pimp my gear of choice, but when questions like this one come up I try to offer a little input without promoting one brand or bashing another. Every camera brand has its strengths and weaknesses and you just have to pick the one that's right for you.

If they put out a K20D with a killer AF system for < $1500 it'd probably be the best value on the market. Let's hope the K30D is just that.
01-12-2009, 06:08 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sailor Quote
I read threads like this with bafflement (and - to my shame - with some amusement), since well-adjusted folks simply buy and use what suits them and feel no compulsion to promote or defend their choices on internet forums.

Jer
Of course you just posted in the thread, so you are part of the problem
01-12-2009, 06:19 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Of course you just posted in the thread, so you are part of the problem
And, man, did it feel good!

Jer

01-12-2009, 06:27 PM   #99
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as in all things internet related

You can always find a "proof" to support an arguement, if you look hard enough...
Anyways, Nikon lost here.....
Pentax K10D beats Nikon D700 in low light AF: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
After all the debate about the AF speed and accuracy I last night had the opportunity of comparing a K10D + 50 1.4 with a D700 + 50 1.4 in low light conditions shooting members of my family using all possible AF and ISO and Aperture settings. The immediate, and most evident and surprising finding was that the Pentax camera regardless of settings and light managed to accurately lock and focus on the subject without any problems taking an accurately exposed picture.
Of course the first hing someone will say is "your Nikon's broken"
If it was pentax losing, you just say.. yea it's just bad design... yadda yadda...
Oh I guess that point is also at that thread:
wow... I'm flabbergasted. And you're sure the Nikon was in perfect shape, ie. not a bad sample of lens or body?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=30652856
LOL........
01-12-2009, 07:14 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by LanceB:
Surely this can't be true. How could anyhting Pentax does be ever as good as Nikon? ;-)
THAT was the funny part

In THIS thread,
the following question is asked:
QuoteOriginally posted by WhOeVeR:
Any ideas about possible settings that might elimate this annoyance?
Is the proper answer, "BUY A PENTAX !" ?

OK...OK...I'll quit stirring the pot....Here...someone take my wooden spoon.


Tony

Last edited by Sharkonwheels; 01-12-2009 at 07:23 PM.
01-13-2009, 01:14 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sharkonwheels Quote
Are you STILL here?

Seriously - is there not a NIKONZEALOTS.COM forum or something?

WHY do you feel compelled to come onto PENTAXFORUMS.COM and talk trash about Pentaxes, and about how great Nikon's are?

I just don't get it - Radu came in here defending you, saying you're NOT a troll, but I disagee...

Why?

Because you're STILL TROLLING

I still can't believe you'd rather be ON HERE whining and moaning like a b!tch about Pentax gear, instead of being out USING that superior Nikon gear!

Me personally, I can't freaking WAIT for sunlight/photo ops so I can use my gear.
It can say Fisher-Price, or Kia, or Hyundai, or Mattel on it for all I care - I just want to USE it!


Tony
well, again, you are missing one important fact. while you are sitting confortable on your sofa, reading pentax brochures from your reps, dreaming at some K30 with black silicone sensor, or AF system that will obliterate the D3 in a shootout, i actually use my camera for shooting . you probably don't even own one, or if you do, you keep it in the top drawer in you trophee room. yeap, that's right, i've shot sessions with the K10, i know what it can do. in good light any digital SLR can autofocus quite quickly.
provided you have the time and patience, almost any model can AF in the dark, if you can find a contrasty spot. and that is exactly what the K10 is doing, it gets the focus right, i was telling you earlier that i think the pentax focus is consistent. that is the same for the *istDL i've owned. i used the K10 and *ist with good lenses, the 16-45 for example. not quite the 16-50 star, got afraid of the whole lemon thing and didn't order one.

the problem is, and the reason i swiched, and some other friends too, the AF takes too much time to achieve focus in badly lit scenes, artificial light, in respect to other cameras, and in some ocasions even starts to hunt. i know this because i missed shots... my D80 is simply faster. not alot, just enough to get the shot. i know that because i used them in the same environment, similar lenses, moving people, low light, alot of coming and going around. that is the same experience for my other friend, with the K200D.

i am an experienced user, i don;t have to call other people names in order to make a point, i've posted photos taken, i use a decent language, i i have the practical know-how in this particular domain, hence i dont meet the conditions to be a troll. you on the other hand have nothing of what i've just stated, so you need to take a deep breath and a long hard look in the mirror.

if one pentax user tests a pentax camera against the opposition, which one of the cameras is more likely to win ? there are alot of those threads on DPR, thank goodness. are you positive you got all of the options right for the AF system ? might just be a bad sample, there are people stating it hunts with some option deactivated, and are others who say it does not. every manufacturer has bugs like there and if the problem is real, i suppose this can be fixed with a firmware most likely. they said the same about the AF on the new 1DIII, about the 5D2, apparently the outer sensors give OOF. and then some guys tested the D3 against the abovementioned 1DIII and found a much better focus in burst mode for the 1DIII. and so on. these are minor events and represent spikes in a performance chart, measurement noise.

the reason why i still post here is probably, the fact that i am immature enough to think that a pentaxian could actually accept the fact that his/hers camera underperforms compared to another. i also amused myself seeing you compare the K20 to the 1D from canon in some other thread, i can't wait to see what's next. i think it mai actually be a worldwide marketing conspiration against pentax and i'm realising now i am just a part of it.....

ciao.

Last edited by nicolaie; 01-13-2009 at 01:23 AM.
01-13-2009, 01:45 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by nicolaie Quote
the reason why i still post here is probably, the fact that i am immature enough to think that a pentaxian could actually accept the fact that his/hers camera underperforms compared to another. i also amused myself seeing you compare the K20 to the 1D from canon in some other thread, i can't wait to see what's next. i think it mai actually be a worldwide marketing conspiration against pentax and i'm realising now i am just a part of it.....

ciao.
Most sane people do accept Pentax isn't the market leader in AF speed. As you are fond of quoting from DPReview, I'll quote what they said about the K20D:

Pro - Accurate, reliable auto-focus

Con - Autofocus not as fast or consistent in low light as the more expensive competition

Conclusion - The autofocus, while never breathtakingly fast, is also never intrusively slow for general shooting. Using enthusiast-level lenses (16-45mm f/4 or 35mm f/2.8 Macro), its performance, even in low light, has been at least comparable with similarly-priced cameras, if not quite up to the standards of the more expensive, similarly-specified cameras from other brands.


Note the important point there: more expensive competition

It's when you trotted out bullshit like "Nikon has the best ergonomics and lenses and menu's, even Canon users say so" is when people called you out for being a fanboy.

By the way, here's what DPReview said about the K20D's ergonomics:

Ergonomics up with the best of the best
01-13-2009, 02:08 AM   #103
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Nicolaie, afaik there is only one person on this Universe who dreams about a Pentax FF camera with a 44MP black silicon sensor. And he's not on this forum.

Do I understand correctly? You're here to "prove" us how "inferior" our cameras are? To justify your choice? Who asked you to do that? Why are you so insecure, if Nikon is that good?
Please, stop this nonsense.
01-13-2009, 02:54 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Nicolaie, afaik there is only one person on this Universe who dreams about a Pentax FF camera with a 44MP black silicon sensor. And he's not on this forum.

Do I understand correctly? You're here to "prove" us how "inferior" our cameras are? To justify your choice? Who asked you to do that? Why are you so insecure, if Nikon is that good?
Please, stop this nonsense.


i didn't read that specific thread you mean. but there is one about black silicon here too.
the cameras are fine, little noisier with some more detail, little slow by now (burst i mean), a little dated if you compare them to the latest offerings from the competition, the AF is a good, though not how i wanted it to be.
i apreciate the construction on the K10, K200, K20, more than what was needed.

it's not my job to stop a nonsense that somebody else started. if you are going to compare a pentax to a similar camera from other system you should try to find something a pentax is better at, like construction/price paid, details in the high iso's/price paid. don't go in the AF arena, a pentax is not intended to compete with canon and nikon in that area.
and if you do,a nd compare pentax to canikon, compare the best of pentax with the best of the others because otherwise it would be quite dificult finding an oponent in the other side that wouldnt be too amateurish or too "serious".

otherwise, the thread is bound to generate nothing other than flames. this is why i started posting here. pentax offers an interesting and cheaper alternative to the other two makers maybe even better, but only on a certain domain and usage area, that is why i don't approve of users marching in here singing "Pentax, Pentax über alles"
01-13-2009, 03:21 AM   #105
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Pic shot with an uber expensive $ camera!

Ooops sorry - a cheap Canon A540 6mp p&s was used
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