What do you use as a second, compact camera ?

audiobomber · 01-14-2009, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

FYI I tried shooting with lower MP on the A590 yesterday. 5MP was the next setting down from 8MP. The noise was still quite visible :-( That makes me think that it really still shoots at 8MP and just throws some pixels away most likely ... Sigh. I guess I really need to find one with a bigger sensor and/or lower MP.

When you decrease the photo size on that camera, it just uses the center of the sensor. Pixel density remains the same, effective sensor area is decreased.

madbrain · 01-14-2009, 07:05 PM

Hi,

Originally posted by stevebrot

No problem, you say...Yes, problem! As it turns out, the quality of AA batteries, even name brand Duracell and Energizer is not what you get here in North America. She was getting 5-10 shots per set of batteries from the local "everything" shop. Old stock? Previously used? Poor storage? Counterfeit? Hard to tell.

Turns out that even a camera that takes AA batteries is only partial insurance.

Sorry to hear that. That definitely sounds like bad alkaline batteries. When I went to vietnam in december I brought about 20 to 30 rechargeable AAs on my trip. I charged them all before I left. I have a big stack of battery chargers

I needed 10 at a time - 4 for the K200D, 4 for the flash, 2 for the P&S. About one third of the batteries were eneloops which hold their charge very well. The others were NiMH of higher capacity but didn't hold their charge as well. Of course I didn't pack all 30 with me every day, a good chunk of them stayed in the hotel. And when I ran out of juice, I put the discharged batteries in the charger overnight.
I don't think I can ever run out of battery with the strategy I have.
As it turns out, I took about 1600 shots with the K200D in 2 weeks (I only shot for 10 of the 14 days). I had to switch the 4 AAs in the camera battery twice, and the 4 AAs in the flash battery twice as well.

The battery situation is the #1 reason why I bought the K200D instead of the K20D. I hope Pentax switches back to AA on the K20D's successor or I will skip it too.

shutterpuppy · 01-14-2009, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

Hi,

Sorry, but the viewfinder is one I am not going to compromise on - I learned my lesson, and I'm just not going to buy any camera without one. It is at the very top of my list. It is the main reason for switching compact camera. If not for the lack of viewfinder I would just get another L1 if I could find one. Lack of SDHC wasn't that critical on a 6MP camera like it is on higher MP camera.

The GX-200 sure seems like a nice little camera ! But is it really correct that it runs on AAA batteries and can only do 30 shots per set ??? That would seem like somewhat of a dealbreaker.

It does have a short zoom too, which I might compromise on, if everything else fit the requirements, but it does not I am afraid.

Hey Brain,
I wish I'd thought about the "viewfinder issue" before I bought my Panasonic DMC-TZ4 with it's 10x zoom. It's a great camera but hard to use since I'm use to capturing an image with my eye on the viewfinder and not the LCD. I bought the Panny new from a seller on EBAY and never even noticed it didn't even have one. Outdoors it's almost impossible to use with the sun brightly glaring down on the LCD

Oh well, I can always resell it to someone like me who won't think about the "viewfinder issue" until it's too late"

Barry

madbrain · 01-14-2009, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by shutterpuppy

Hey Brain,
I wish I'd thought about the "viewfinder issue" before I bought my Panasonic DMC-TZ4 with it's 10x zoom. It's a great camera but hard to use since I'm use to capturing an image with my eye on the viewfinder and not the LCD. I bought the Panny new from a seller on EBAY and never even noticed it didn't even have one. Outdoors it's almost impossible to use with the sun brightly glaring down on the LCD

Oh well, I can always resell it to someone like me who won't think about the "viewfinder issue" until it's too late"

Barry

Yep, that was exactly my experience with the Nikon L1. I really don't understand why entire manufacturers of cameras don't offer any compacts with viewfinders. Panasonic is one of many these days with that issue . I found that dpreview has a search camera engine by feature. Viewfinder is one of the criteria. Unfortunately, you have to specify the exact type of viewfinder you need in the query. I just want to exclude all the cameras that don't have one from my searches

There is no ability to search by battery type unfortunately. Or SDHC vs SD. Or amount of zoom - you have to specify focal lengths, which is more accurate. Or just how compact it is ("fits in jean pocket"

).

Nevertheless, most of the information is in the responses of the search engine, you just have to sift through a lot of the responses by hand. But it is better than nothing.

Canon seems to be one of the few companies that offer viewfinders on many of their smaller cameras. Too bad the pictures they take are unacceptable on the ones I tried

shutterpuppy · 01-14-2009, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

Hi,

Sorry to hear that. That definitely sounds like bad alkaline batteries. When I went to vietnam in december I brought about 20 to 30 rechargeable AAs on my trip. I charged them all before I left. I have a big stack of battery chargers

I needed 10 at a time - 4 for the K200D, 4 for the flash, 2 for the P&S. About one third of the batteries were eneloops which hold their charge very well. The others were NiMH of higher capacity but didn't hold their charge as well. Of course I didn't pack all 30 with me every day, a good chunk of them stayed in the hotel. And when I ran out of juice, I put the discharged batteries in the charger overnight.
I don't think I can ever run out of battery with the strategy I have.
As it turns out, I took about 1600 shots with the K200D in 2 weeks (I only shot for 10 of the 14 days). I had to switch the 4 AAs in the camera battery twice, and the 4 AAs in the flash battery twice as well.

The battery situation is the #1 reason why I bought the K200D instead of the K20D. I hope Pentax switches back to AA on the K20D's successor or I will skip it too.

Hey Brain once again,
The battery life is quite amazing on the k200d, I took 4 sets of Eneloops with me to Miami for Christmas, however I never needed them. I only took a little less than 300 pictures on the batteries already in the camera from Thanksgiving pics? What kind of AA batteries? Walgreen's own brand of alkalines. Yep, it shocked me too. BTW, brought the compact Panny along for the trip too, totally useless shooting beach pics when you don't have a viewfinder, should have taken my ole Fuji E-550 instead.

Barry

madbrain · 01-15-2009, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by shutterpuppy

Hey Brain once again,
BTW, brought the compact Panny along for the trip too, totally useless shooting beach pics when you don't have a viewfinder, should have taken my ole Fuji E-550 instead.

Barry

Yup. I was hiking in the French alps in the summer a couple years ago just after I bought that L1. The lack of viewfinder was a big problem. So I will stand firm on my insistence for a viewfinder.

It doesn't look like any current camera exists that meets all my requirements

The discontinued canon A650 seems like it might be close, but it's probably borderline not pocketable. And I would have to see the noise level given that it's 12MP.

heatherslightbox · 01-15-2009, 06:28 AM

Have you thought about getting a pop-up shade to go on your p&s? It really does help and it would open up a lot more options in p&s models.
Universal/Point and Shoot Shades :: Pop Up Shades :: Delkin USA

HTH,
Heather

Neil MacG · 01-15-2009, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I'm just the opposite. For me, no viewfinder = no sale.
I find the VF on the Canon A720 is a real advantage for telephoto shots and a necessity in bright sun.

Someone else mentioned about the Panasonic TZ5. I have it's predecessor - the TZ3 which has fewer Mpixels and slightly different jpeg engine. But something of note that is common to both the TZ3 and TZ5 is that although they have no VF they have 2 special live-view options.

1. Power LCD - this is where you can temporarily increase LCD screen output to cope with bright sun situations.

2. High Angle - this is quite amazing and changes the angle at which the pixels can be viewed so that you can hold the camera above your head at arms length and be able to see the screen clearly. This is absolutely brilliant for crowd and difficult situations. Something I just can't do with a conventional VF of my DSLR or LCD liveview of any other cameras I have.

While the TZ3 and to some extent the TZ5 suffer from over smoothing of noise in low-light/high ISO situations I really love my little TZ3. On holiday I used it just as much as my K100D. It DOES fit in my pocket and has an amazing quality leica lens at 10x Optical and an option of 16:9 format (which uses extra sensor area at the sides).

If I was told I could only keep one outfit - my TZ3 or my DSLR, I think I would opt for the TZ3.

For examples of what I have done with my TZ3 and processing in Bibble Lite - see this Flickr Set of mine here:

Panasonic DMC-TZ3 - a set on Flickr

Neil

Old Timer 56 · 01-15-2009, 11:28 AM

I still use an Olympus C5050 (actually I have two of them), which is my carry-everywhere camera. It has a viewfinder, two card slots, a metal body (not many of those anymore), and offers RAW capture as well as JPEG. RAW's a bit slow though.

Otherwise, I use two K10D bodies and the three pancake lenses. Great camera but I wish Pentax made a DSLR with a metal body. Even my Olympus cameras (including my C8080) are made of metal.

Richard

**rparmar** · 01-15-2009, 12:28 PM

The Ricoh GR Digital is a 6MP with a fixed 28mm f/2.4 lens and optional viewfinder. It has a proprietary battery. Though it shoots RAW it takes 13 seconds (!) for each and still is unusably noisy even at low ISO (from examples I've seen). It's being blown out for £200 in the UK.

The GR Digital II is very expensive but has improved noise, 10MP, takes AAA in a pinch and needs a more reasonable 3s per RAW. Besides an optional wide angle adapter there is a 40 mm conversion lens available.

The user interface on these is really nice with a proper manual mode controlled by front and back dials. They are small and very light.

fearview · 01-15-2009, 12:33 PM

panasonic lumix fz10

--

ups ..

i forgot ..it not compact..

madbrain · 01-15-2009, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by fearview

panasonic lumix fz10

--

ups ..

i forgot ..it not compact..

Yeah, that one is way too big. And it's only 4mpix, and no SDHC.
I guess my requirements cannot be met my any camera on the market right now. Sigh.

KjetilH · 01-15-2009, 04:21 PM

I use a Canon Ixus 750 (D. Elph SD550/Ixy 700). It was the reason I bought a DSLR a bit over a year ago (rather, the flash was broken, and I was becoming too advanced for the thing).

I must say that for snaps at parties in bright light, I couldn't really wish for more, IQ-wise. But I do feel very handicapped, as it is very auto-based, and can't fire the flash anymore.

fearview · 01-15-2009, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

Yeah, that one is way too big. And it's only 4mpix, and no SDHC.
I guess my requirements cannot be met my any camera on the market right now. Sigh.

--

Canon Powershot SX10 IS -- but too big for your jeans pocket.

Kodak EasyShare Z8612 IS -- no viewfinder

Kodak EasyShare Z1015 IS -- using lithium ion..

..

cant help you...

**rogerstg** · 03-07-2020, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by joelbolden

My second camera is the Pentax X70 P&S

Nice shots, but I don't think the X70 was available to the OP when the question was asked 11 years ago.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What would you like to see in a Pentax compact camera?	barondla	Pentax Compact Cameras	16	04-15-2010 09:23 PM
For Sale - Sold: Fuji F31fd Compact Camera	jadem	Sold Items	12	04-15-2009 10:26 PM
About The P&S/Compact Camera Section	Adam	Pentax Compact Cameras	0	03-20-2008 09:11 PM
what about a great compact camera from Pentax???	celetron	Pentax DSLR Discussion	10	01-17-2007 09:37 AM

01-14-2009, 06:34 PM	#61
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by madbrain FYI I tried shooting with lower MP on the A590 yesterday. 5MP was the next setting down from 8MP. The noise was still quite visible :-( That makes me think that it really still shoots at 8MP and just throws some pixels away most likely ... Sigh. I guess I really need to find one with a bigger sensor and/or lower MP. When you decrease the photo size on that camera, it just uses the center of the sensor. Pixel density remains the same, effective sensor area is decreased.

01-14-2009, 07:05 PM	#62
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Hi, Originally posted by stevebrot No problem, you say...Yes, problem! As it turns out, the quality of AA batteries, even name brand Duracell and Energizer is not what you get here in North America. She was getting 5-10 shots per set of batteries from the local "everything" shop. Old stock? Previously used? Poor storage? Counterfeit? Hard to tell. Turns out that even a camera that takes AA batteries is only partial insurance. Sorry to hear that. That definitely sounds like bad alkaline batteries. When I went to vietnam in december I brought about 20 to 30 rechargeable AAs on my trip. I charged them all before I left. I have a big stack of battery chargers I needed 10 at a time - 4 for the K200D, 4 for the flash, 2 for the P&S. About one third of the batteries were eneloops which hold their charge very well. The others were NiMH of higher capacity but didn't hold their charge as well. Of course I didn't pack all 30 with me every day, a good chunk of them stayed in the hotel. And when I ran out of juice, I put the discharged batteries in the charger overnight. I don't think I can ever run out of battery with the strategy I have. As it turns out, I took about 1600 shots with the K200D in 2 weeks (I only shot for 10 of the 14 days). I had to switch the 4 AAs in the camera battery twice, and the 4 AAs in the flash battery twice as well. The battery situation is the #1 reason why I bought the K200D instead of the K20D. I hope Pentax switches back to AA on the K20D's successor or I will skip it too.

01-14-2009, 07:21 PM	#63
shutterpuppy Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 319	Originally posted by madbrain Hi, Sorry, but the viewfinder is one I am not going to compromise on - I learned my lesson, and I'm just not going to buy any camera without one. It is at the very top of my list. It is the main reason for switching compact camera. If not for the lack of viewfinder I would just get another L1 if I could find one. Lack of SDHC wasn't that critical on a 6MP camera like it is on higher MP camera. The GX-200 sure seems like a nice little camera ! But is it really correct that it runs on AAA batteries and can only do 30 shots per set ??? That would seem like somewhat of a dealbreaker. It does have a short zoom too, which I might compromise on, if everything else fit the requirements, but it does not I am afraid. Hey Brain, I wish I'd thought about the "viewfinder issue" before I bought my Panasonic DMC-TZ4 with it's 10x zoom. It's a great camera but hard to use since I'm use to capturing an image with my eye on the viewfinder and not the LCD. I bought the Panny new from a seller on EBAY and never even noticed it didn't even have one. Outdoors it's almost impossible to use with the sun brightly glaring down on the LCD Oh well, I can always resell it to someone like me who won't think about the "viewfinder issue" until it's too late" Barry

01-14-2009, 09:26 PM	#64
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by shutterpuppy Hey Brain, I wish I'd thought about the "viewfinder issue" before I bought my Panasonic DMC-TZ4 with it's 10x zoom. It's a great camera but hard to use since I'm use to capturing an image with my eye on the viewfinder and not the LCD. I bought the Panny new from a seller on EBAY and never even noticed it didn't even have one. Outdoors it's almost impossible to use with the sun brightly glaring down on the LCD Oh well, I can always resell it to someone like me who won't think about the "viewfinder issue" until it's too late" Barry Yep, that was exactly my experience with the Nikon L1. I really don't understand why entire manufacturers of cameras don't offer any compacts with viewfinders. Panasonic is one of many these days with that issue . I found that dpreview has a search camera engine by feature. Viewfinder is one of the criteria. Unfortunately, you have to specify the exact type of viewfinder you need in the query. I just want to exclude all the cameras that don't have one from my searches There is no ability to search by battery type unfortunately. Or SDHC vs SD. Or amount of zoom - you have to specify focal lengths, which is more accurate. Or just how compact it is ("fits in jean pocket" ). Nevertheless, most of the information is in the responses of the search engine, you just have to sift through a lot of the responses by hand. But it is better than nothing. Canon seems to be one of the few companies that offer viewfinders on many of their smaller cameras. Too bad the pictures they take are unacceptable on the ones I tried

01-14-2009, 09:51 PM	#65
shutterpuppy Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 319	Originally posted by madbrain Hi, Sorry to hear that. That definitely sounds like bad alkaline batteries. When I went to vietnam in december I brought about 20 to 30 rechargeable AAs on my trip. I charged them all before I left. I have a big stack of battery chargers I needed 10 at a time - 4 for the K200D, 4 for the flash, 2 for the P&S. About one third of the batteries were eneloops which hold their charge very well. The others were NiMH of higher capacity but didn't hold their charge as well. Of course I didn't pack all 30 with me every day, a good chunk of them stayed in the hotel. And when I ran out of juice, I put the discharged batteries in the charger overnight. I don't think I can ever run out of battery with the strategy I have. As it turns out, I took about 1600 shots with the K200D in 2 weeks (I only shot for 10 of the 14 days). I had to switch the 4 AAs in the camera battery twice, and the 4 AAs in the flash battery twice as well. The battery situation is the #1 reason why I bought the K200D instead of the K20D. I hope Pentax switches back to AA on the K20D's successor or I will skip it too. Hey Brain once again, The battery life is quite amazing on the k200d, I took 4 sets of Eneloops with me to Miami for Christmas, however I never needed them. I only took a little less than 300 pictures on the batteries already in the camera from Thanksgiving pics? What kind of AA batteries? Walgreen's own brand of alkalines. Yep, it shocked me too. BTW, brought the compact Panny along for the trip too, totally useless shooting beach pics when you don't have a viewfinder, should have taken my ole Fuji E-550 instead. Barry

01-15-2009, 04:28 AM	#66
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by shutterpuppy Hey Brain once again, BTW, brought the compact Panny along for the trip too, totally useless shooting beach pics when you don't have a viewfinder, should have taken my ole Fuji E-550 instead. Barry Yup. I was hiking in the French alps in the summer a couple years ago just after I bought that L1. The lack of viewfinder was a big problem. So I will stand firm on my insistence for a viewfinder. It doesn't look like any current camera exists that meets all my requirements The discontinued canon A650 seems like it might be close, but it's probably borderline not pocketable. And I would have to see the noise level given that it's 12MP.

01-15-2009, 06:28 AM	#67
heatherslightbox Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,599	Have you thought about getting a pop-up shade to go on your p&s? It really does help and it would open up a lot more options in p&s models. Universal/Point and Shoot Shades :: Pop Up Shades :: Delkin USA HTH, Heather

01-15-2009, 09:04 AM	#68
Neil MacG Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Newbury, England Posts: 53	Originally posted by audiobomber I'm just the opposite. For me, no viewfinder = no sale. I find the VF on the Canon A720 is a real advantage for telephoto shots and a necessity in bright sun. Someone else mentioned about the Panasonic TZ5. I have it's predecessor - the TZ3 which has fewer Mpixels and slightly different jpeg engine. But something of note that is common to both the TZ3 and TZ5 is that although they have no VF they have 2 special live-view options. 1. Power LCD - this is where you can temporarily increase LCD screen output to cope with bright sun situations. 2. High Angle - this is quite amazing and changes the angle at which the pixels can be viewed so that you can hold the camera above your head at arms length and be able to see the screen clearly. This is absolutely brilliant for crowd and difficult situations. Something I just can't do with a conventional VF of my DSLR or LCD liveview of any other cameras I have. While the TZ3 and to some extent the TZ5 suffer from over smoothing of noise in low-light/high ISO situations I really love my little TZ3. On holiday I used it just as much as my K100D. It DOES fit in my pocket and has an amazing quality leica lens at 10x Optical and an option of 16:9 format (which uses extra sensor area at the sides). If I was told I could only keep one outfit - my TZ3 or my DSLR, I think I would opt for the TZ3. For examples of what I have done with my TZ3 and processing in Bibble Lite - see this Flickr Set of mine here: Panasonic DMC-TZ3 - a set on Flickr Neil

01-15-2009, 11:28 AM	#69
Old Timer 56 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New York Posts: 168	I still use an Olympus C5050 (actually I have two of them), which is my carry-everywhere camera. It has a viewfinder, two card slots, a metal body (not many of those anymore), and offers RAW capture as well as JPEG. RAW's a bit slow though. Otherwise, I use two K10D bodies and the three pancake lenses. Great camera but I wish Pentax made a DSLR with a metal body. Even my Olympus cameras (including my C8080) are made of metal. Richard

01-15-2009, 12:28 PM	#70
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	The Ricoh GR Digital is a 6MP with a fixed 28mm f/2.4 lens and optional viewfinder. It has a proprietary battery. Though it shoots RAW it takes 13 seconds (!) for each and still is unusably noisy even at low ISO (from examples I've seen). It's being blown out for £200 in the UK. The GR Digital II is very expensive but has improved noise, 10MP, takes AAA in a pinch and needs a more reasonable 3s per RAW. Besides an optional wide angle adapter there is a 40 mm conversion lens available. The user interface on these is really nice with a proper manual mode controlled by front and back dials. They are small and very light.

01-15-2009, 12:33 PM	#71
fearview Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Jakarta Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,067	panasonic lumix fz10 -- ups .. i forgot ..it not compact..

01-15-2009, 02:47 PM	#72
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by fearview panasonic lumix fz10 -- ups .. i forgot ..it not compact.. Yeah, that one is way too big. And it's only 4mpix, and no SDHC. I guess my requirements cannot be met my any camera on the market right now. Sigh.

01-15-2009, 04:21 PM	#73
KjetilH Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oslo Photos: Gallery Posts: 309	I use a Canon Ixus 750 (D. Elph SD550/Ixy 700). It was the reason I bought a DSLR a bit over a year ago (rather, the flash was broken, and I was becoming too advanced for the thing). I must say that for snaps at parties in bright light, I couldn't really wish for more, IQ-wise. But I do feel very handicapped, as it is very auto-based, and can't fire the flash anymore.

01-15-2009, 05:19 PM	#74
fearview Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Jakarta Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,067	Originally posted by madbrain Yeah, that one is way too big. And it's only 4mpix, and no SDHC. I guess my requirements cannot be met my any camera on the market right now. Sigh. -- Canon Powershot SX10 IS -- but too big for your jeans pocket. Kodak EasyShare Z8612 IS -- no viewfinder Kodak EasyShare Z1015 IS -- using lithium ion.. .. cant help you...

03-07-2020, 07:12 AM	#75
rogerstg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 1,168	Originally posted by joelbolden My second camera is the Pentax X70 P&S Nice shots, but I don't think the X70 was available to the OP when the question was asked 11 years ago.