What do you use as a second, compact camera ?

nostatic · 01-13-2009, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

Well, sure many small viewfinders on P&S are crappy, but they are much better than having no way to compose the picture at all, which is what you get when you are in the sun and have to shoot with LCD.

I have shot both my DLux3 and DLux4 in all kinds of light and never been unable to see to compose a picture. Especially with the new screen on the DLux4 (LX3). I can say it has never been an issue for me. Have you tried recent generation screens?

audiobomber · 01-13-2009, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

I like that suggestion. I didn't see the A720IS in store.
How is the noise level on your A720IS at low ISO ? Does the A720 have the same size sensor as the A590IS, or a bigger one ?

I don't think I would add any converter to the A590 because I want to keep it pocketable.

The A590 and A720 IS are the same electrically (same processor, same sensor, same mp). The A720 has a better lens (faster, less CA, sharper, more zoom). But if you aren't happy with the 590, you probably won't be satisfied with the 720 either. It's as good as any camera with a tiny sensor. You aren't going to get around that limitation unless you get something more exotic.

Mark Castleman · 01-13-2009, 10:01 PM

I use a Canon Powershot S1 and it works quite well. All of the Powershot S series cameras have a viewfinder

madbrain · 01-13-2009, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by pingflood

Well, most cameras don't even give you that option--it's pretty much intended as an emergency backup power source if you run out and can't recharge. Nice feature, wish more cameras had it.

Which is why I prefer my cameras to run on a single but widely available power source - AA. batteries. I can always bring more rechargeables (sanyo eneloop).

azcavalier · 01-14-2009, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by madbrain

Which is why I prefer my cameras to run on a single but widely available power source - AA. batteries. I can always bring more rechargeables (sanyo eneloop).

How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries.

If you must have a viewfinder and AA battery support, then it sounds like the Canon PowerShot A590 or the PowerShot E1 would work.

RoxnDox · 01-14-2009, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by azcavalier

How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries.

If you must have a viewfinder and AA battery support, then it sounds like the Canon PowerShot A590 or the PowerShot E1 would work.

I have a Powershot A80 (old 4mp model), and I get several hundred shots out of a set of 4 AA Eneloops. I used to run sets of Energizer rechargeables in it, and I would get over a hundred shots most of the time (even when the batts were several years old and "well -used"...)

Nowadays I have the same Eneloops powering my K100D too, and no complaints.

Jim

Blue · 01-14-2009, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

In my left coat pocket there is either an Super A or an MX with a 28mm or 50mm lens on. In my right coat pocket, there is a 100mm or 135mm lens.

Now that's what I'm talking about! The problem here in Florida, we have about 6 maybe 8 weeks out of the year where it is appropriate to were a coat with a pocket. :ugh:

rpriedhorsky · 01-14-2009, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by azcavalier

How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries.

High-current devices like digicams don't play well with alkaline batteries, which is what it sounds like you were using. I've gotten excellent results (500+ shots) with NiMH rechargeables on my Canon P&S, and so far so good with the same batteries in my K200d.

More details: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/

Reid

Marc Sabatella · 01-14-2009, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by azcavalier

How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries.

Alkaline batteries are pretty much worthless in many digital cameras. Lithium works *far* better if you feel like throwing money and trash away; NiMH rechargeables work almost as well and cost far less to your wallet and the earth. The Pentax DSLR's that take AA's get around 500 shots or more on good NiMH rechargeables (depending on flash usage, etc). P&S cameras often don't do as well, because liveview and/or the EVF is a *major* power drain.

madbrain · 01-14-2009, 04:55 PM

Hi,

Originally posted by azcavalier

How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries.

If you must have a viewfinder and AA battery support, then it sounds like the Canon PowerShot A590 or the PowerShot E1 would work.

I used the continuous shooting mode on sunday when I got my A590 and got about 700 shots with two freshly charged 2500 mAh NiMH rechargeable batteries, before the battery indicator started flashing. This was without flash of course. But the camera was still working.

madbrain · 01-14-2009, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Now that's what I'm talking about! The problem here in Florida, we have about 6 maybe 8 weeks out of the year where it is appropriate to were a coat with a pocket. :ugh:

It's approximately the same here in California :-)

madbrain · 01-14-2009, 05:07 PM

Marc,

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Alkaline batteries are pretty much worthless in many digital cameras. Lithium works *far* better if you feel like throwing money and trash away; NiMH rechargeables work almost as well and cost far less to your wallet and the earth. The Pentax DSLR's that take AA's get around 500 shots or more on good NiMH rechargeables (depending on flash usage, etc). P&S cameras often don't do as well, because liveview and/or the EVF is a *major* power drain.

Indeed, the K200D does very well on good NiMH batteries . I can easily get 700 shots on it with four good 2500 mAh batteries, including light flight usage. The problem is many NiMH batteries self-discharge, and some more quickly than others. Sometimes one battery of a set will do that, while the 3 others are still fine (tested with my MAHA C9000 charger with the discharge function). And then the K200D won't power up because of low voltage.

To solve that, I now use exclusively Sanyo Eneloop which are "only" 2000 mAh. As a result I typically get fewer shots (around 500), but at least I never run into the above described situation where one AA battery goes bad and I have to unexpectedly replace one battery after a low number of shots. It is annoying to find out which one is bad in the field when it's not the full set.

In comparison, my external flash (952AF) - also powered by 4 AAs - is less fussy about low charge batteries. It will always power up even with some low cells. But I have seen the flash recharge time go up from the normal 3-4 seconds to 30 seconds :-)

IMO, the Sanyo eneloops AA are the greatest batteries. Low cost, good capacity, and they hold their charge. There is no reason to ever use alkalines again when you have those.

madbrain · 01-14-2009, 05:10 PM

FYI I tried shooting with lower MP on the A590 yesterday. 5MP was the next setting down from 8MP. The noise was still quite visible :-( That makes me think that it really still shoots at 8MP and just throws some pixels away most likely ... Sigh. I guess I really need to find one with a bigger sensor and/or lower MP.

stevebrot · 01-14-2009, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

Which is why I prefer my cameras to run on a single but widely available power source - AA. batteries. I can always bring more rechargeables (sanyo eneloop).

Sounds good in theory. Consider though, what happened to my daughter just last month. She was traveling in India with her K10D and a Nikon P&S. The K10D uses the proprietary lithium cell while the Nikon uses AA cells. One day something happened on the power grid in the middle of the Great Indian Thar Desert and the K10D charger is toast. After determining that it is near to impossible to ship a replacement charger, she falls back to plan "B"...store the Pentax and use the Nikon for the rest of the trip.

No problem, you say...Yes, problem! As it turns out, the quality of AA batteries, even name brand Duracell and Energizer is not what you get here in North America. She was getting 5-10 shots per set of batteries from the local "everything" shop. Old stock? Previously used? Poor storage? Counterfeit? Hard to tell.

Turns out that even a camera that takes AA batteries is only partial insurance.

Steve

pingflood · 01-14-2009, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by madbrain

FYI I tried shooting with lower MP on the A590 yesterday. 5MP was the next setting down from 8MP. The noise was still quite visible :-( That makes me think that it really still shoots at 8MP and just throws some pixels away most likely ... Sigh. I guess I really need to find one with a bigger sensor and/or lower MP.

Well, it's not changing the sensor just because you shoot at lower size output.

Some cameras will 'bin' two pixels together on the sensor to lower resolution while decreasing noise, but you won't find that on a basic point and shoot. Best to just shoot at 8MP to get a little more detail and then apply noise reduction in post.

For what it's worth, wife has an A590IS and for a point and shoot I think it's an admirable little thing. Slow flash recycle though.

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01-13-2009, 09:01 PM	#46
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by madbrain Well, sure many small viewfinders on P&S are crappy, but they are much better than having no way to compose the picture at all, which is what you get when you are in the sun and have to shoot with LCD. I have shot both my DLux3 and DLux4 in all kinds of light and never been unable to see to compose a picture. Especially with the new screen on the DLux4 (LX3). I can say it has never been an issue for me. Have you tried recent generation screens?

01-13-2009, 09:21 PM	#47
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by madbrain I like that suggestion. I didn't see the A720IS in store. How is the noise level on your A720IS at low ISO ? Does the A720 have the same size sensor as the A590IS, or a bigger one ? I don't think I would add any converter to the A590 because I want to keep it pocketable. The A590 and A720 IS are the same electrically (same processor, same sensor, same mp). The A720 has a better lens (faster, less CA, sharper, more zoom). But if you aren't happy with the 590, you probably won't be satisfied with the 720 either. It's as good as any camera with a tiny sensor. You aren't going to get around that limitation unless you get something more exotic.

01-13-2009, 10:01 PM	#48
Mark Castleman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Westminster, Colorado Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 298	I use a Canon Powershot S1 and it works quite well. All of the Powershot S series cameras have a viewfinder

01-13-2009, 10:03 PM	#49
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by pingflood Well, most cameras don't even give you that option--it's pretty much intended as an emergency backup power source if you run out and can't recharge. Nice feature, wish more cameras had it. Which is why I prefer my cameras to run on a single but widely available power source - AA. batteries. I can always bring more rechargeables (sanyo eneloop).

01-14-2009, 06:54 AM	#50
azcavalier Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Blacksburg, VA Photos: Gallery Posts: 135	Originally posted by madbrain Which is why I prefer my cameras to run on a single but widely available power source - AA. batteries. I can always bring more rechargeables (sanyo eneloop). How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries. If you must have a viewfinder and AA battery support, then it sounds like the Canon PowerShot A590 or the PowerShot E1 would work.

01-14-2009, 07:07 AM	#51
RoxnDox Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Gig Harbor, Washington, USA, Terra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,494	Originally posted by azcavalier How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries. If you must have a viewfinder and AA battery support, then it sounds like the Canon PowerShot A590 or the PowerShot E1 would work. I have a Powershot A80 (old 4mp model), and I get several hundred shots out of a set of 4 AA Eneloops. I used to run sets of Energizer rechargeables in it, and I would get over a hundred shots most of the time (even when the batts were several years old and "well -used"...) Nowadays I have the same Eneloops powering my K100D too, and no complaints. Jim

01-14-2009, 07:21 AM	#52
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden In my left coat pocket there is either an Super A or an MX with a 28mm or 50mm lens on. In my right coat pocket, there is a 100mm or 135mm lens. Now that's what I'm talking about! The problem here in Florida, we have about 6 maybe 8 weeks out of the year where it is appropriate to were a coat with a pocket. :ugh:

01-14-2009, 04:29 PM	#53
rpriedhorsky Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 210	Originally posted by azcavalier How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries. High-current devices like digicams don't play well with alkaline batteries, which is what it sounds like you were using. I've gotten excellent results (500+ shots) with NiMH rechargeables on my Canon P&S, and so far so good with the same batteries in my K200d. More details: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ Reid

01-14-2009, 04:33 PM	#54
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by azcavalier How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries. Alkaline batteries are pretty much worthless in many digital cameras. Lithium works far better if you feel like throwing money and trash away; NiMH rechargeables work almost as well and cost far less to your wallet and the earth. The Pentax DSLR's that take AA's get around 500 shots or more on good NiMH rechargeables (depending on flash usage, etc). P&S cameras often don't do as well, because liveview and/or the EVF is a major power drain.

01-14-2009, 04:55 PM	#55
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Hi, Originally posted by azcavalier How well do most cameras do with AA batteries? A few years back we bought a really nice Olympus P&S for work, but i'm not exaggerating when I say that 25-30 pictures would drain the FOUR AA Duracells we put in it. I mean, you could almost hear it sucking the juice out of those batteries. If you must have a viewfinder and AA battery support, then it sounds like the Canon PowerShot A590 or the PowerShot E1 would work. I used the continuous shooting mode on sunday when I got my A590 and got about 700 shots with two freshly charged 2500 mAh NiMH rechargeable batteries, before the battery indicator started flashing. This was without flash of course. But the camera was still working.

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01-14-2009, 04:55 PM	#56
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Originally posted by Blue Now that's what I'm talking about! The problem here in Florida, we have about 6 maybe 8 weeks out of the year where it is appropriate to were a coat with a pocket. :ugh: It's approximately the same here in California :-)

01-14-2009, 05:07 PM	#57
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	Marc, Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Alkaline batteries are pretty much worthless in many digital cameras. Lithium works far better if you feel like throwing money and trash away; NiMH rechargeables work almost as well and cost far less to your wallet and the earth. The Pentax DSLR's that take AA's get around 500 shots or more on good NiMH rechargeables (depending on flash usage, etc). P&S cameras often don't do as well, because liveview and/or the EVF is a major power drain. Indeed, the K200D does very well on good NiMH batteries . I can easily get 700 shots on it with four good 2500 mAh batteries, including light flight usage. The problem is many NiMH batteries self-discharge, and some more quickly than others. Sometimes one battery of a set will do that, while the 3 others are still fine (tested with my MAHA C9000 charger with the discharge function). And then the K200D won't power up because of low voltage. To solve that, I now use exclusively Sanyo Eneloop which are "only" 2000 mAh. As a result I typically get fewer shots (around 500), but at least I never run into the above described situation where one AA battery goes bad and I have to unexpectedly replace one battery after a low number of shots. It is annoying to find out which one is bad in the field when it's not the full set. In comparison, my external flash (952AF) - also powered by 4 AAs - is less fussy about low charge batteries. It will always power up even with some low cells. But I have seen the flash recharge time go up from the normal 3-4 seconds to 30 seconds :-) IMO, the Sanyo eneloops AA are the greatest batteries. Low cost, good capacity, and they hold their charge. There is no reason to ever use alkalines again when you have those.

01-14-2009, 05:10 PM	#58
madbrain Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341 Original Poster	FYI I tried shooting with lower MP on the A590 yesterday. 5MP was the next setting down from 8MP. The noise was still quite visible :-( That makes me think that it really still shoots at 8MP and just throws some pixels away most likely ... Sigh. I guess I really need to find one with a bigger sensor and/or lower MP.

01-14-2009, 05:32 PM	#59
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by madbrain Which is why I prefer my cameras to run on a single but widely available power source - AA. batteries. I can always bring more rechargeables (sanyo eneloop). Sounds good in theory. Consider though, what happened to my daughter just last month. She was traveling in India with her K10D and a Nikon P&S. The K10D uses the proprietary lithium cell while the Nikon uses AA cells. One day something happened on the power grid in the middle of the Great Indian Thar Desert and the K10D charger is toast. After determining that it is near to impossible to ship a replacement charger, she falls back to plan "B"...store the Pentax and use the Nikon for the rest of the trip. No problem, you say...Yes, problem! As it turns out, the quality of AA batteries, even name brand Duracell and Energizer is not what you get here in North America. She was getting 5-10 shots per set of batteries from the local "everything" shop. Old stock? Previously used? Poor storage? Counterfeit? Hard to tell. Turns out that even a camera that takes AA batteries is only partial insurance. Steve

01-14-2009, 06:10 PM	#60
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by madbrain FYI I tried shooting with lower MP on the A590 yesterday. 5MP was the next setting down from 8MP. The noise was still quite visible :-( That makes me think that it really still shoots at 8MP and just throws some pixels away most likely ... Sigh. I guess I really need to find one with a bigger sensor and/or lower MP. Well, it's not changing the sensor just because you shoot at lower size output. Some cameras will 'bin' two pixels together on the sensor to lower resolution while decreasing noise, but you won't find that on a basic point and shoot. Best to just shoot at 8MP to get a little more detail and then apply noise reduction in post. For what it's worth, wife has an A590IS and for a point and shoot I think it's an admirable little thing. Slow flash recycle though.