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01-15-2009, 09:49 PM   #46
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I started with a K100D along with a kit lense - total about $700. Now I have also added a K10D. several lenses, too many tripods, and flash. But you have to start somewhere and if your current budget is $500 then the K10D for $399 is a great starting point. Don't be put off by the remarks that your budget should keep you out of the hobby.

01-15-2009, 11:38 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote

what i'm trying to say is that you will quickly learn that arbitrarily setting your limit to 500 dollars is a bad move, you will quickly realize that all of a sudden you've sunk more money into this than you previously planned
That's happening to me...1 month ago, I thought I would get back into photography the "cheap" way, and got a K10d (refurb)+ 16-45mm lens+SD card...I thought I would spend $700-$800 tops.

Then I got the DA35mm macro, still wanting a 50mm, maybe a tele, and I got a magnifier, new focusing screen, filters....so, $1200.... and counting. Someone stop me please!!! And browsing these forums certainly makes it worse. Every time I see great photos taken by some lens, I thought " wow, maybe I should get this lens too..."

And I am a grad. student too.
My saving grace is, I am selling some other gears to fund this, and unlike film photography, at least I won't have to spend money on film and developing.

Good luck.

-donna

p.s. I got a $399 refurb. K10d 1 month ago. (it has 1-year warranty and looks new) go to "Photographer's Marketplace", you'd see some $350 used.
01-16-2009, 09:49 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Javaslinger Quote
I ordered the DA 18-55 AL II from amazon.com for $99... I can't afford much glass now. The Ritz store only had the older DA 18-55 so I had to order OVERNIGHT... brand new DSLR -- no lens.... this is torture....
Hey, you went for it! Congrats - You are going to love that picture making machine. I have the older version of that lens and it's a fairly respectable piece of glass. In fact, it's downright poke yourself in the eye sharp above 35mm. Here is a link that will help you find the sweet spots a little quicker: Pentax 18-55 lens review Have Fun!
01-16-2009, 11:53 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Javaslinger Quote
I ordered the DA 18-55 AL II from amazon.com for $99... I can't afford much glass now. The Ritz store only had the older DA 18-55 so I had to order OVERNIGHT... brand new DSLR -- no lens.... this is torture....
Hey, this gives you a chance to do a little digital pinhole photography!

01-16-2009, 11:58 AM   #50
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These freaks and their AA obsession. Really, it's for insecure types who don't remember to carry a second battery with them. They are just awful in every respect.
01-16-2009, 02:11 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
gooshin,



Cost was only one part of my argument - wide availability, reusability for other purposes, and environmental concerns were another.

<digression>
As for film, I can't ever see myself paying 10-15 dollars for a roll of slides. My father has hundreds, if not thousands, of slides from the 1960s onwards . The colors are so faded now that it's really sad to watch. He has been busy digitizing them with a slide scanner lately. But I think it will take a lot of work to restore them digitally if at all possible. It may be too late. I'll stick with digital from the start. The digital photos from the K200D look quite good, displayed from a PC over HDMI to my HD (1920x1080) projector onto an 106" screen - better than any of my father slides look now, and probably as good as they ever did before. And they will only look better when the resolution of digital projectors increases.
</digression>
Brain,
We'll never convince em will we? (AA battery debate) LOL, well when they get stuck in smalltown USA during a photoshoot and their battery icon starts-a-blinking..we know we can pull into mom and pop store and get some extra shots for our camera and not drive 25+ miles to the biggest city to a camera shop that may/may not carry their particular battery in stock. BTW, I love the fact you have an old Olympus too, I have C-2100 aka UZ1, great cam for only being 2MP. helps too I sell Smartmedia cards on EBAY.

Barry

Barry
01-16-2009, 03:06 PM   #52
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Barry,

QuoteOriginally posted by shutterpuppy Quote
Brain,
We'll never convince em will we? (AA battery debate)
I guess not !

QuoteQuote:
LOL, well when they get stuck in smalltown USA during a photoshoot and their battery icon starts-a-blinking..
Smalltown USA ? Try being on a trip on another continent. If your one or two proprietary batteries are discharged, or worse yet, fail, you will be SOL.

I didn't see any camera shops carrying Pentax DSLRs or lenses in Ho Chi Minh city last month. I sure didn't ask about batteries - of course, my K200D takes AAs so I didn't need to.

It's interesting too that they weren't for sale, since many of the Pentax lenses are now made right there in Vietnam.

Pentax DSLRs were for sale in Paris last summer at the FNAC, though, including the K200D. They had some lenses too. But the prices were pretty outrageous. Think dollar amount here = euro amount there. And the euro was around $1.50 back then ! BTW this problem with prices wasn't specific to Pentax. Everything is always overpriced there. Of course the 20.6% sales tax doesn't help.

I have a lot of device at home that use AAs, and many others that use C or D batteries too. I use physical adapters to put my AAs inside Cs and Ds. Sure, it's reduced capacity, but it works. I probably own about 80 AA rechargeables all together and usually about 60 of them are in use at any point in time. And the Maha C9000 is a beautiful charger, so I can know exactly when it's time to recycle a battery. I actually took that Maha in my suitcase in Vietnam last month.

QuoteQuote:
BTW, I love the fact you have an old Olympus too, I have C-2100 aka UZ1, great cam for only being 2MP. helps too I sell Smartmedia cards on EBAY.
Yeah. Those small olympus were nice. I got rid of my C3000 (or was it C3030 ? I forget now) on ebay last year. Along with a few 64 MB Smartmedia cards. Many of the cards no longer worked When I bought that Oly originally it was like $700 - more than I spent on the K200D ! That must have been when it came out some 8 or 9 years ago. I sold the original remote that came with the camera, for more than the camera itself, since I know that remote can be used with current Olys

That camera could shoot 3MP in uncompressed TIFF. But if you chose that option, you could store all of 7 (!) pictures on the biggest SM card it supported (64 MB), and it took 30 seconds to save the shot. Nevertheless, the pictures were great. That was my first digicam. And it used AAs. As did my next one, the Nikon L1. As do my current ones, the Pentax K200D and Canon A590 . I have never had a digital camera that didn't use AAs, and don't plan to.
01-16-2009, 03:13 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Barry,



I guess not !



Smalltown USA ? Try being on a trip on another continent. If your one or two proprietary batteries are discharged, or worse yet, fail, you will be SOL.

I didn't see any camera shops carrying Pentax DSLRs or lenses in Ho Chi Minh city last month. I sure didn't ask about batteries - of course, my K200D takes AAs so I didn't need to.

It's interesting too that they weren't for sale, since many of the Pentax lenses are now made right there in Vietnam.

Pentax DSLRs were for sale in Paris last summer at the FNAC, though, including the K200D. They had some lenses too. But the prices were pretty outrageous. Think dollar amount here = euro amount there. And the euro was around $1.50 back then ! BTW this problem with prices wasn't specific to Pentax. Everything is always overpriced there. Of course the 20.6% sales tax doesn't help.

I have a lot of device at home that use AAs, and many others that use C or D batteries too. I use physical adapters to put my AAs inside Cs and Ds. Sure, it's reduced capacity, but it works. I probably own about 80 AA rechargeables all together and usually about 60 of them are in use at any point in time. And the Maha C9000 is a beautiful charger, so I can know exactly when it's time to recycle a battery. I actually took that Maha in my suitcase in Vietnam last month.



Yeah. Those small olympus were nice. I got rid of my C3000 (or was it C3030 ? I forget now) on ebay last year. Along with a few 64 MB Smartmedia cards. Many of the cards no longer worked When I bought that Oly originally it was like $700 - more than I spent on the K200D ! That must have been when it came out some 8 or 9 years ago. I sold the original remote that came with the camera, for more than the camera itself, since I know that remote can be used with current Olys

That camera could shoot 3MP in uncompressed TIFF. But if you chose that option, you could store all of 7 (!) pictures on the biggest SM card it supported (64 MB), and it took 30 seconds to save the shot. Nevertheless, the pictures were great. That was my first digicam. And it used AAs. As did my next one, the Nikon L1. As do my current ones, the Pentax K200D and Canon A590 . I have never had a digital camera that didn't use AAs, and don't plan to.
Ah, another reason to get rid of my viewfinderless P&S Panny, it doesn't use AAs. Someone suggested we get a LCD shade, they never work as good as they claim from my experience.

01-16-2009, 06:49 PM   #54
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They could only discharge because you didn't charge them the night before. Wherever there are batteries, there are powerpoints IMHO.

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Barry,

Smalltown USA ? Try being on a trip on another continent. If your one or two proprietary batteries are discharged, or worse yet, fail, you will be SOL.
01-18-2009, 08:07 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I can do 1200 shots on two sets of 2500 NiMH too.. Or 1000 on two sets of 2000 eneloops. I know I'm not going to take that many in one day so all I need is one spare set.



I think the eneloops have sold the wearing out issue pretty well ...



I have an old Canon ZR70 camcorder that I used only once on a 2 months trip 6.5 years ago, and basically didn't use since. It uses Lithium ion batteries. I had 3 high capacity spare batteries. 3 out of the 4 batteries are now completely dead, just by sitting in the camera bag. They could not be recharged no matter how hard I tried. That includes the OEM Canon battery. They have all had to be recycled. The only one that still lives is an aftermarket one. If I want to ever seriously use this camcorder again, I now need to buy a spare battery for it, which is probably worth more than the camcorder itself at this point, not to mention shipping. I can't just go to a store and buy one. If I don't buy one more, and the last battery dies on a trip, then I will probably be SOL. Guess what - I did not buy a spare battery, and I did not take that camcorder with me on my last few trips abroad.

Now, I'm not saying that all my NiMH AA rechargeables are going to last 6+ years. Many haven't either and were recycled too. But a lot of them have gotten charges in the 100+ range, unlike the camcorder batteries which couldn't have been recharged more than 5 or 6 times each. And my AAs have not had a 75% death rate. So frankly, I haven't been greatly impressed by Lithium ion batteries so far. Sure, it's a small sample size, but I don't see them as an improvement at all.

The 4 AA lithiums (non rechargeables) that came with the K200D on the other hand, were great batteries. They might have gotten as many as 1000 shots. But they were disposable, and too costly to replace, so I didn't buy any more after I was done with them.
Everyone has a story that will argue the opposite point...

I have a bag full of expensive rechargeable AA's that didn't take more than 10 charges before they didn't hold a significant charge anymore and became useless (2500's). I also have two very close friends who are in the exact same boat. Heaps of expensive useless rechargeable batteries.

I've since made the switch to Eneloops for my shoe flash, but they are near impossible to find where I live (1 store within an hours drive carry them...and I live in a major city surrounded by 5 other major cities). They are more costly, but do hold a charge much longer.

I have 5 l/O batteries for my K10D's - the 3 extra ones cost me $30 ($10 each). I've been using them on rotation for 2 years now and have never been without power and could conceivably shoot ~4000 shots on them. That's way more than I would ever shoot on a vacation out of country where they've never heard of Pentax, or batteries for that matter.

Running out of power is a dilemma only discussed by users of AA's. I'm sorry you had problems with your Canon I/O battery - that's too bad and sounds very frustrating.

c[_]
01-18-2009, 08:28 AM   #56
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Like Brain and I have been saying all along,if your somewhere and need back up juice right away, AAs are the way to go. Don't know if the k10/k20 batteries come fully charged when they're shipped with the camera but on Christmas day, I'm sure many new K200d owners were happy they could play with their new toy right away and take pictures of their family opening their presents while those who have to use a special battery read in the manual "fully charge battery before using" therefore losing a perfect moment
01-18-2009, 09:07 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by shutterpuppy Quote
Like Brain and I have been saying all along,if your somewhere and need back up juice right away, AAs are the way to go. Don't know if the k10/k20 batteries come fully charged when they're shipped with the camera but on Christmas day, I'm sure many new K200d owners were happy they could play with their new toy right away and take pictures of their family opening their presents while those who have to use a special battery read in the manual "fully charge battery before using" therefore losing a perfect moment
Honestly, your kidding right?? Opening it for the first time ever and having to charge the battery to use it (I didn't have to) would be that much of a deal breaker?!?

I'm not buying it, sorry. You like using AA's - we get it. Pentax offers us options which is great. But, please don't try to sell inferior tech to those who know better.

c[_]

P.S. I guess you don't own a cell phone - because they have to be charged before using them. You wouldn't want to miss that all important phone call!
01-18-2009, 09:17 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by ll_coffee_lP Quote
Honestly, your kidding right?? Opening it for the first time ever and having to charge the battery to use it (I didn't have to) would be that much of a deal breaker?!?

I'm not buying it, sorry.

c[_]

P.S. I guess you don't own a cell phone - because they have to be charged before using them. You wouldn't want to miss that all important phone call!
LOL, I wasn't calling it a deal breaker but I do have a Panny P & S and the first thing you see in the manual is "charge battery first" this must be done before you even set the time and date. Alas you answered my question about if the your battery came fully charged, some are not. My example (perhaps poor) just reminded me of Christmas morning growing up (all family members waking up at the same time) I could the k200d and shoot right away as opposed to waiting for a charge and miss "the opening of the gifts" , stupid example...right?

Barry
01-18-2009, 09:36 AM   #59
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It comes down to this, if you think you have the intelligence to charge your batteries and keep a spare then LiIon is fine, if you haven't got this intelligence, you need AA's to cover yourself "when you run out of power in rural Papua New Guinea""
01-19-2009, 02:13 PM   #60
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Budget DSLR Photography

I also recently bought one of the $399 demo K10Ds as a backup for my main one (now nearly two years old). It's a super camera and nowhere near out-of-date yet.

I have a number of budget lenses in my bag, including a couple I still use. I picked up a Tamron Adaptall 2 SP 70-210 f3.5 brand new for $99 on eBay some while ago and mated it with a Pentax KA2 adapter that I snagged for free with another Adaptall lens (since sold on). It's one of my favorite mid-range zooms, even though it's manual focus. I also have a Pentax 50mm A 1.7, another nice fast manual focus lens that I bought for under $50.

You could keep yourself happy for under $500, but doubt that LBA will stop there.

Mike
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