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01-19-2009, 08:16 AM   #16
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Well of course a 15MP camera gives you better details then a 4MP camera, but looking the differens between a 12 and a 15MP camera the differens are so small that you can't barely notice it even on very large prints.

Pentax do very good lenses and that's good becasue k20d needs them...and well, I just say that there are so much more then MP.

Look the Sony A900 at high ISO...it's terrible and the Canon 5d mark II beats it even in details even if the sony A900 have like 3MP more. These days non-pro photographers don't print in A0+ prints so why buy cameras that are built to do that job?

Don't missunderstand me...The pentax k20d have a huge image quality but I think that the signal-system and things like that are very very much important.

The big differens between k10d and k20d is not the only pixels, but the signal, and the quality of the sensor that pentax have.

01-19-2009, 08:21 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I'd suggest you stop reading and go out and do something really productive like shooting pictures with a Pentax camera.
That's what photography is all about - it's taking pictures, not measurebating.

Where I'm at, the phrase is NPNT (No Picture, No Talk).
BTW you do have a Pentax camera don't you?
Hey Creampuff! Sounds a little heavy. This guy is just musing about a few topics that have already been the topic of much discussion on this forum. That being the practical limitations of pixel count/density in light of the the quality of available glass. I don't think he was trying to say that Pentax is crummy or that something else is better.

Steve
01-19-2009, 08:23 AM   #18
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The only reason I think it is too high is that it means buying more and bigger hard drives...
01-19-2009, 08:28 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I did think it interesting that a razor sharp lens on the K10 was slightly soft on the K20
I agree w/ this. My Sigma 17-70 now needs to be stopped down more (compared to my old K10D) to make it sharp on the K20D; primes (50 and 77) however, do not have to be stopped down more.

One other thing is the K10D has a relatively weak vertical aliasing filter that makes its pictures look sharper than a camera w/ full aliasing filters (like the D80), at the cost of moire effects and x-mas tree lights at times. It's an interesting tradeoff and a good example of how Pentax tries to think "outside the box" compared to other manufacturers...

I've heard the 50D owners think their cameras aren't as sharp as the 40D as well. The extra resolution is at the theoretical limit (15MPix) of APS-C lenses, so it's no real surprise...

01-19-2009, 08:35 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Hey Creampuff! Sounds a little heavy. This guy is just musing about a few topics that have already been the topic of much discussion on this forum. That being the practical limitations of pixel count/density in light of the the quality of available glass. I don't think he was trying to say that Pentax is crummy or that something else is better.

Steve
have you read his other "musings"

he is quite a character.....
01-19-2009, 08:38 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Hey Creampuff! Sounds a little heavy. This guy is just musing about a few topics that have already been the topic of much discussion on this forum. That being the practical limitations of pixel count/density in light of the the quality of available glass. I don't think he was trying to say that Pentax is crummy or that something else is better.

Steve
Thank you Steve! That was exactly was I was try to do and i'm glad you saw it

If I critic any brand here it's canon doing 50d with 15mp for gain the MP APS-C market, when the 40d already as a very very good camera

Thanks for that mate

Regards Emil
01-19-2009, 08:40 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
have you read his other "musings"

he is quite a character.....
Yes - OP's mission seems to be to inform all of us that "equipment doesn't matter," and he knows this because even though he's 19, or something, he hangs around with some people who shoot film, or something. His posts seem to be thinly veiled attempts at doing this disguised as questions.

Troll? maybe not, but emergent troll behavior. Emil, if I have you pegged wrong, I apologize. Why don't you post some images to get going in the forum?


.
01-19-2009, 08:41 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
I've heard the 50D owners think their cameras aren't as sharp as the 40D as well. The extra resolution is at the theoretical limit (15MPix) of APS-C lenses, so it's no real surprise...
i'VE heard the same, and that gave me inspiration for this topic

The market not (yet) have the lenses that a 15MP+ camera needs

Regards Emil

01-19-2009, 08:41 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by losecontrol Quote
Thank you Steve! That was exactly was I was try to do and i'm glad you saw it

If I critic any brand here it's canon doing 50d with 15mp for gain the MP APS-C market, when the 40d already as a very very good camera

Thanks for that mate

Regards Emil
you are always "trying to say something" instead of just saying it.

you say your english is bad but you always write in a manner that pretty much forces the reader to see double or triple meaning in your words, which, interestingly enough, demands a much greater knowledge of the language than a simple "what is the time?".

01-19-2009, 09:42 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Hey Creampuff! Sounds a little heavy. This guy is just musing about a few topics that have already been the topic of much discussion on this forum. That being the practical limitations of pixel count/density in light of the the quality of available glass. I don't think he was trying to say that Pentax is crummy or that something else is better.

Steve
Sorry Steve but for the TS to indulge in pseudo gear comparisons when it is not even clear that he has actually owned or used a DSLR sounds like a case of getting ahead of himself. My advise is practical because photography is essentially a skill/creative based activity, but as a photography-student, this should be painfully obvious to the TS. One may have the best gear on paper but if one can't shoot for nuts, what's the point of indulging in such pointless conjecture.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/46075-hello-all-tr...entusiast.html
01-19-2009, 10:21 AM   #26
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Theoretically, to get a more precise and sharper image registration it is better to have possibly smaller pixels, or else each pixel registers image area instead of point. Because theoretically if you divide image in pixels, the exact , single pixel information about image is projected at one point.. area is some sort of aproximation or integration over photo detector surface, which isnt exact value of the point correspongin to the pixel.
Practically you face many problems when decreasing pixel size (like noise), so in reality no one makes tiny pixels on large sensor, but they get smallet with increased resolution.
Btw, did you know that in a full frame CCD, only 1/3 of the surface is used for pixels. Even less in other ccd types.

This is another reason, why one would like to use more pixels than needed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversampling

Last edited by ytterbium; 01-19-2009 at 10:27 AM.
01-19-2009, 10:23 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ytterbium Quote
Theoretically, to get a more precise and sharper image registration it is better to have possibly smaller pixels, or else each pixel registers image area instead of point. Because theoretically if you divide image in pixels, the exact , single pixel information about image is projected at one point.. area is some sort of aproximation or integration over photo detector surface, which isnt exact value of the point correspongin to the pixel.
Practically you face many problems when decreasing pixel size (like noise), so in reality no one makes tiny pixels on large sensor, but they get smallet with increased resolution.
Btw, did you know that in a full frame CCD, only 1/3 of the surface is used for pixels. Even less in other ccd types.
dont forget that each pixel only records a single colour
01-19-2009, 10:55 AM   #28
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This whole idea that 15mp is a limit and that the megapixel race should stop here is largely based on misconception and erroneous statements on questionable testing websites. When I first came here there were several topics discussing this subject, in each of which it was shown that those statements were based on faulty logic and testing methods and that increasing pixel counts are inevitable and, yes, desirable, up until the point that the sensor is fully outresolving the lenses, giving the benefits of oversampling. Once we get there, we can program cameras to downsample to the performance level of the lens attached in-camera and get far superior results taking full advantage of all the capabilities of the lenses we have.
01-19-2009, 11:01 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by losecontrol Quote
In one time comparing with the nikon D300, We was look how fine details the camera could shown. 14,6 vs 12mp

The result is around: 2550 &2600 for the pentax and 2550&2600 for the nikon D300. The same!!
Well, 12 versus 14.6 is a *tiny* difference in pixel dimensions. Consider, the K20D shoots at 4672x3104 and the D300 is 4288x2848. That's less than 10% in each direction. Of course you're not going to see a huge difference in resolution.
01-19-2009, 12:12 PM   #30
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Personally I'm waiting for the magazines to test the coffee bean grinding ability of various bodies. I mean sure, they can take great pictures. But if I smash coffee beans with them, will I get a good drip blend or will it be more on the espresso tip? Do I get better flavor from a D300? Or does the better AF of Canon give me a richer body?

Hey, somebody has to ask the important questions...
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