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01-20-2009, 04:09 PM   #61
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Too much? I dunno...

As I have used all Pentax cameras of digital age (sort of) and must say that despite of user control variance (still have my *istD) I must say that further upgrades as K100-K10-K20 ALL made a VERY definite difference for my shooting habits and skills- IMHO I got a lil bit lazy with BENEFITS (huge I must say) of SR and despite of all SYNTHETIC tests I must declare that K20D is the best FILM camera I have ever used- and yes I mean film- as its images look like... You know... And even with my humble glass I must say- nothing to complain about :-)
BTW I even do not have an idea why I started this reply but anyway this is my humble point of view.
Best and happy shooting, JR

01-20-2009, 05:25 PM   #62
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I concur - more pixels means more cropping!

Here is a sample taken yesterday.... sorry, not as good as the Wildman's posting! What lens did you use Wildman ?

Now with these examples, I think this is evidence enough on why 14MP is better than less pixels.

BTW, my photo was shot at F8... it seems that the focus is still softer than I am happy with. I am not sure it is the lens or the auto focus.

I used a Tamron SP 24-125mm 50th Anniversary lens for this photo.

FYI... EXIF info
Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K20D
Software - K20D Ver 1.00
DateTime - 2009:01:19 11:40:10
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 598
ExposureTime - 1/250 seconds
FNumber - 8.00
ExposureProgram - Aperture priority
ISOSpeedRatings - 400
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2009:01:19 11:40:10
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ExposureBiasValue - 1.00
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
FocalLength - 135.00 mm
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 4672
ExifImageHeight - 3104
InteroperabilityOffset - 54284
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
ExposureMode - Manual
White Balance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 202 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Macro
Attached Images
   

Last edited by pentaxmz; 01-20-2009 at 05:49 PM. Reason: EXIF is a mess
01-20-2009, 05:45 PM   #63
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One final example of why more pixels is better

Here is another example taken yesterday.

This time I have a slightly more exotic bird, using one of my better lenses (Sigma APO 70-300mm).

First image is a full frame reduced image, the next image is a more realistic crop and reduced size (compared to my first example), and the final image is a 100% crop.

These photos were taken at ISO 400 and (IMHO) the noise is barely acceptable for that speed. I am not sure why others say the K20D is superior for low noise! If anything, SR proved to work (or was that my steady hand?) as this photo was taken at 1/60 second. For 300mm, this photo turned out pretty sharp.

No corrections were made (okay, a little bit on the cropped reduced image).

- Shawn

P.S. I really wish I would have bracketed to capture the background water as well. Darn....
Attached Images
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PENTAX K20D  Photo   
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K20D  Photo 

Last edited by pentaxmz; 01-20-2009 at 05:51 PM. Reason: adding bit about bracketing
01-20-2009, 08:14 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Htaken at ISO 400 and (IMHO) the noise is barely acceptable for that speed. I am not sure why others say the K20D is superior for low noise!
I think that's because you're basically in the dark area of your photo and the K20D has more chroma noise than other cameras in darker regions...

01-20-2009, 11:09 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
These photos were taken at ISO 400 and (IMHO) the noise is barely acceptable for that speed. I am not sure why others say the K20D is superior for low noise!
Because these people are talking about noise at higher ISO (eg, 1600), and not necessarily noise in just the shadows. K20D may be weak in shadows at ISO 400 compared to other cameras, but it does pretty well in the lights and midtones at ISO 1600.
01-20-2009, 11:26 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Because these people are talking about noise at higher ISO (eg, 1600), and not necessarily noise in just the shadows. K20D may be weak in shadows at ISO 400 compared to other cameras, but it does pretty well in the lights and midtones at ISO 1600.
That photo was captured with JPG only - set at highest quality.

After reading some resent postings, I am now wondering if I should make RAW a standard setting, rather than the exception (pressing the RAW button)?

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way of programming the RAW button to temporarily save only JPG (without RAW). That would be useful for when I just need a quick snapshot. Sigh....

Last edited by pentaxmz; 01-20-2009 at 11:27 PM. Reason: addition
01-20-2009, 11:30 PM   #67
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Umm, you're pixel peeping and complaining about noise with jpg captures?
01-20-2009, 11:37 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Umm, you're pixel peeping and complaining about noise with jpg captures?
Okay, okay.... I did kinda, sorta admit that I might have done something stupid. :ugh:

I've just switched my camera over to RAW always ON!

But, it's still too bad that I cannot program the RAW button to temporarily switch to JPG only. I'll add that to the wish list.

01-20-2009, 11:44 PM   #69
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yeah, I never shoot jpg with my K20d. I have an 8gig card so I have plenty of space. I end up downloading every day (or multiple times a day) so it never fills up. I just can't stand the thought of letting the camera throw away all that data.

Then again I like noise in the right places. I have no issue with iso1600 in the K20d but it works for my look.
01-21-2009, 04:05 PM   #70
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Are yu sure you can't program the RAW button to switch to JPEG? Seems I used to have mine set up that way. But really, I don't see the point of ever shooting JPEG. Just a waste of a button press - converting to JPEG after the fact, should you need to, doesn't take any longer than pressing the RAW button on the camera. What's the big deal?
01-21-2009, 05:13 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Are yu sure you can't program the RAW button to switch to JPEG? Seems I used to have mine set up that way. But really, I don't see the point of ever shooting JPEG. Just a waste of a button press - converting to JPEG after the fact, should you need to, doesn't take any longer than pressing the RAW button on the camera. What's the big deal?

I guess our situations are different.

There are many times where I just want to take a snap-shot and I would rather not waste the memory card space. Yes, I am using 8 GB cards and I am carrying several with me, however, it isn't a good use of my time to convert such photos to JPGs later on.

In regards to the RAW button, the only option (on firmware 1.00) is RAW+ (creating a RAW AND a JPG)... there is no option to switch to creating just a JPG.
01-21-2009, 07:32 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
it isn't a good use of my time to convert such photos to JPGs later on.
Once you start shooting RAW all the time, you'll develop a workflow in which selected files get batch converted to JPEG anyhow. I'm absolutely serious when I say that it takes no more additional time to convert a RAW to JPEG than it does to press the RAW button in the first place - a fraction of a second either way. It's only people who msotly shoot JPEG who need an extra step to handle RAW files. Once you start shooting RAW all the time, you'll probably find it's more work to handle an occasional JPEG, as it interrupts the workflow.

If you you need the card space, by all means, do what you have to - but don't fool yourself ito thinking you're saving time. If it takes any extra time at all to handle your RAW files versus the JPEG's, your workflow is serious need of improvement. Although, I forget - you are using the Pentax software. That *does* limit you pretty severely in workflow. I'd go so far as to say shooting mostly RAW isn't worth the extra hassle if you are forced to use the Pentax software, but with better software, it's the other way around: it's JPEG that isn't worth the extra hassle.

QuoteQuote:
In regards to the RAW button, the only option (on firmware 1.00) is RAW+ (creating a RAW AND a JPG)... there is no option to switch to creating just a JPG.
What camera are you talking about? I thought you had a K20D? My K200D definitely has the option to go from RAW to JPEG, and I didn't think the K200D had any features above and beyond the K20D.
01-21-2009, 07:34 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
I guess our situations are different.

There are many times where I just want to take a snap-shot and I would rather not waste the memory card space. Yes, I am using 8 GB cards and I am carrying several with me, however, it isn't a good use of my time to convert such photos to JPGs later on.

In regards to the RAW button, the only option (on firmware 1.00) is RAW+ (creating a RAW AND a JPG)... there is no option to switch to creating just a JPG.
WOW 8 gig and several cards and you need to conserve space for a few snaps by not using RAW+jpg?
Reminds me of the penny-wise pound foolish thing....sorry to say.
4 jpg= 1 raw I believe and 444 "sets" per 8 gig card.... correct me if I'm off on my calculations... good thing you don't shoot film
01-21-2009, 07:53 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
WOW 8 gig and several cards and you need to conserve space for a few snaps by not using RAW+jpg?
Reminds me of the penny-wise pound foolish thing....sorry to say.
4 jpg= 1 raw I believe and 444 "sets" per 8 gig card.... correct me if I'm off on my calculations... good thing you don't shoot film
Puzzling isn't it? Memory is cheap, so there is no reason to skimp on shooting.
Actually I find the K20D's jpeg output is so good that I rarely use RAW nowadays except for critical images where the WB is tricky or I want just that bit more dynamic range.
01-22-2009, 06:32 AM   #75
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Been trying to tell people this for years but they just refuse to beleive me. Just load the damn files on your PC, open PhotoLab and press "play".

Done.

The RAW button is insane because it just takes the space of something useful like a WB or ISo toggle.

QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Once you start shooting RAW all the time, you'll develop a workflow in which selected files get batch converted to JPEG anyhow. I'm absolutely serious when I say that it takes no more additional time to convert a RAW to JPEG than it does to press the RAW button in the first place - a fraction of a second either way. .
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