[nostatic]

Although it is a interesting and perhaps clever site, I would not trust it for an accurate and 'scientific' comparison of cameras. It is quite clear that the comparisons are not strict and controlled. Sometimes exposure, ISO, focus, lenses (ESPECIALLY LENSES), and other settings differ enough to make unfair comparisons.

DPReview and Steve's are far better for getting the real facts about the various cameras.

Agreed on the first part. The "comparison" site is of no use - meaningless "data."

I think that dpr is only good for information on the menus and features of a camera. Beyond that I don't particularly think much of the opinions. And the forums are ridiculous. For "reviews" I'd rather read Luminous Landscape or Reid Reviews. At least I understand how those guys shoot...and they actually *do* shoot rather than pixel peep and take pictures of focus charts.

[Marc Sabatella]

One of my MZ-S lenses (Sigma) works beautifully.... but my Tamron's focus is consistently soft at a fully opened aperture.

The adjustment features doesn't make a soft lens sharp - it is simply to correct a problem that some camers or lenses might have where the focus is "off" - you focus on one thing, but the area of sharpest focus is in front of or in back of the actual subject. Chances are pretty good your Tamron lens is just soft wide open - most lenses are noticeably softer wide open. but if you suspect front or back focus, by all means, download a test chart like the one at focustestchart.com, *read the instructions*, and find out if you have a problem the adjustment could help with.

[pentaxmz]

There is a way, I have my k20d set up like this. (with standard firmware)
Press menu button, go to Rec Mode and scroll down to RAW button.
Scroll right, then down to jpeg, scroll right again and select jpeg.
do the same for each setting.
you will end up with :- JPEG > JPEG
RAW > JPEG
RAW+> JPEG
Press OK.
Now when you press the RAW button you can take a JPEG.
In the RAW Button menu, tick the box cancel each time and you camera will
switch back to RAW capture after 1 Jpeg image has been shot.

Thank you so much!

I can't believe I missed that fairly obvious setting (scroll right twice)!

Now the RAW button switches temporarily to JPG. Thank you again!

[pentaxmz]

.....
I actually have "RAW" selected, so that hitting the RAW button while in RAW mode has no effect for me. I did this because I found that sometimes I would accidentally press the button (or perhaps it would press itself in my bag) and I'd be shooting JPEG without realizing it. So I've basically disabled the button. Looks like that's how your camera is current set up to behave when in RAW+ mode.

How opposite of my 'problem'. The RAW button on the K20 is a bit stiff and when I had the camera in JPEG priority, I found that pressing the RAW button often didn't trigger RAW mode.

Thanks to ozzi-paul, I now have the RAW button temporarily triggering JPEG. If I miss placing the camera into JPEG mode, I won't be kicking myself afterwords.

[pentaxmz]

The adjustment features doesn't make a soft lens sharp - it is simply to correct a problem that some camers or lenses might have where the focus is "off" - you focus on one thing, but the area of sharpest focus is in front of or in back of the actual subject. Chances are pretty good your Tamron lens is just soft wide open - most lenses are noticeably softer wide open. but if you suspect front or back focus, by all means, download a test chart like the one at focustestchart.com, *read the instructions*, and find out if you have a problem the adjustment could help with.

I was wondering about that but after reviewing some hi resolution scans of photos taken with this lens, when it was attached to my MZ-S camera, sharp photos should be expected.

Thanks for the link... I had lost it.

[robgo2]

umm OK I tried that D700 vs K20d and I used "still-life ISO 100" and look for example at the crayola box and crayons with each.. not to knock the k20d at all, but you really think the K20d looks better than the D700, even at ISO 100???

to save people time

D700 - http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/D700/FULLRES/D700hSLI00100.JPG

K20d - http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/K20D/FULLRES/K20DhSLI0100.JPG

just for fun

D90 - http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/D90/FULLRES/D90hSLI0100.JPG

Of course this is just pixel peeping to the extreme and a little pointless as they certainly didn't use the same lens on every camera (not to mention possible processing differences).. I just thought the quoted statement was worth investigating a little further!

If you compare the very first mannequin images, I would say "yes." In any case, the K20D equals or outperforms some pretty good competition.

Rob

[robgo2]

Agreed on the first part. The "comparison" site is of no use - meaningless "data."

I think that dpr is only good for information on the menus and features of a camera. Beyond that I don't particularly think much of the opinions. And the forums are ridiculous. For "reviews" I'd rather read Luminous Landscape or Reid Reviews. At least I understand how those guys shoot...and they actually *do* shoot rather than pixel peep and take pictures of focus charts.

C'mon, guys. Even if the IR comparator shots are not perfectly controlled, the difference between the K20D and the D300 is very striking. They would have had to screw up royally to get such disparate results.

Rob

[audiobomber]

C'mon, guys. Even if the IR comparator shots are not perfectly controlled, the difference between the K20D and the D300 is very striking. They would have had to screw up royally to get such disparate results.

Rob

I always look at the still life ISO photos. When I look at ISO 100, it's clear that the K20D photo is more contrasty, punchier looking. When I look at ISO 3200, again the k20D is more contrasty, more detailed, but noisier. Which is exactly what I expect. To repeat my earlier post, you can't directly compare them. The photos are taken at default settings. The Nikon uses heavy NR, the Pentax uses none. You have to download the photos and apply NR before you compare them

[Marc Sabatella]

I always look at the still life ISO photos. When I look at ISO 100, it's clear that the K20D photo is more contrasty, punchier looking. When I look at ISO 3200, again the k20D is more contrasty, more detailed, but noisier. Which is exactly what I expect. To repeat my earlier post, you can't directly compare them. The photos are taken at default settings. The Nikon uses heavy NR, the Pentax uses none.

Actually, the K20D does supposedly apply NR at ISO 3200 even with NR turned off.

[joele]

I made your test. Look at the center, "Mas Portell". You'll see the K20D wins hands down. If it doesn't in the corners, then maybe focus isn't optimal or the corner resolution of the lens isn't up to the task...

Not my test I was just referring back to the site used as proof from an earlier post..

Or using your reasoning the center resolution of the lens on the D700 isn't up to task???? i.e. it is more even from center to corner but not as good overall in the center..

As I said kind of pointless as it tests the lens as much as the sensor..

[audiobomber]

Actually, the K20D does supposedly apply NR at ISO 3200 even with NR turned off.

It doesn't matter, because there still isn't the same amount of NR applied. There's more noise and more detail in the Pentax photo. To compare them you would have to add enough noise reduction in the Pentax photo to scrub away the detail that the Nikon has already lost, then compare them.

Even at the Strong settting on the K20D, it's not applying as much NR as the Nikon at its default setting. That's so that noise can be handled judiciously in post production, i.e. the photographer's way, not the point & shoot way. I'm not saying the Nikon isn't lower noise, all I'm saying is, the Comparometer photos are not a level playing field, there is not as much difference as the high ISO photos show.

[Marc Sabatella]

all I'm saying is, the Comparometer photos are not a level playing field, there is not as much difference as the high ISO photos show.

I'm not disputing this - my comment was more of an "oh by the way" aside.

[nostatic]

C'mon, guys. Even if the IR comparator shots are not perfectly controlled, the difference between the K20D and the D300 is very striking. They would have had to screw up royally to get such disparate results.

Rob

Someone on the interwebs screwing up?!? Crazy talk! Every "test" is correctly controlled, every fact is true, and everyone is 6'4" and handsome.

[tarheel13]

Hey! Listen up.
I entered in this forum with just that filosofi that you explain now, and Im not
a camera-freak. The opposite. I shot film and use darkroom, and I don't care about
expensive gear ect ect.

But I found it intressting that companies (everyone) think that they can sell gear
to us just use the megapixel-myth. Todays megapixel-race gonna stop, and
inform about such a thing does not prove anything that I mind about the gear.
I mind about that young photographers don't waise their money beliving that
megapixel is the important and not the basic-knowledge of photo.

I want people to start discuss this becasue I want people to see that
megapixel race only fill the companies pockets (when we need invest in expensive
top optic) and we don't win nothing more that just a minor differens on a A2 print.

I love take photos and that's my passion, so don't say im not, without knowing.

I was told enter in this forum that it is much a forum for gear, so becasue of it
I was post this topic. Rather for having an intressting discution than being critizied.

It's great you love take photos. Me too! Let's keep it that way

Regards

Emil

Yes, Emil, it's all about the glass in the final analysis. My SMC 31mm Ltd. on my istD will render every bit as good an 8 x 10 as my K20D.