THE SEXY PEOPLE and FLASH ISSUES

quenched · 01-22-2009, 09:21 AM

I have recently been shooting in a local nightclub, i used the k20d there for the first time last night.

It took me a little while to get the settings to work, i was having lots of very soft focus issues and hunting. Prob due to the F4 16-45 too.

Anyway it appears the on board flash is casting a blob shadow in many of the shots, i dont normally shoot flash and prefer the fast primes when shooting gigs but the club environment needs a zoom honestly.

Anyway Q's are this.

Has anyone else experienced the shadow i speak of?

Does Pentax have a flash set up that is designed especially automated for their cameras or will the old (but very good) Sunpak i have do the job?

IF ANYONE HAS SOME TIPS FOR SHOOTING IN LOW LIGHT WITH THE PENTAX K20 THAT IS UNIQUE/SPECIFIC TO THE MODEL AS OPPOSED TO A GENERAL ISSUE I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT.

Also does the IS system effect IQ if it is on yet there is no camera shake (i have a very steady hand but shoot in very bumpy environments often)

THIS SEEMS LIKE A GREAT LITTLE BODY SO FAR AND IM ENJOYING 'THE CURVE'

Thank You all once more.

MrApollinax · 01-22-2009, 09:26 AM

I guess the quick question is what focal length are you shooting when using the 16-45? What you might be seeing is being caused by you shooting at a focal length too wide for the on-board flash. Post a couple examples please.

forensicscientist · 01-22-2009, 09:28 AM

Could "the blob shadow" be from the lens hood?

Venturi · 01-22-2009, 09:29 AM

Are you referring to a half-moon-ish shadow on the bottom of your shots with the onboard flash? If so, it's likely the lens hood of the 16-45 blocking the flash. Take it off when shooting with flash, especially at wide angle.

Venturi · 01-22-2009, 09:30 AM

LOL talk about pouncing a thread. 3 replies in 3min

Blue · 01-22-2009, 09:37 AM

You can experiment with the ISO settings when shooting in low light as well.

deaner · 01-22-2009, 09:37 AM

The on board flash is a waste of time, IMO. As a last resort, OK, but anything else I'm afraid isn't worth the trouble. If money is an issue, I can understand, but if you can afford it, I would find a decent used flash and a cheap wireless trigger.

The dead spot you're referring to is the end of the lens blocking part of the flash, especially if you've got the barrel of the lens extended.

You should try to avoid ANY flash that is too close the lens, if you can.

deaner · 01-22-2009, 09:41 AM

I've got the 16-45mm zoom and I'm very happy with it. Like most lenses in a dark place, it WILL hunt for a focus point. But I've had decent success with the lens in clubs:

Flash As Stage Lighting - a set on Flickr

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-22-2009, 09:57 AM

a good dedicated hot shoe flash with focus assist will help hunting, because all cameras have trouble in low light not only pentax.

Faster lens also will help hunting,

the hot shoe flash , as others have mentioned will eliminate the problem of a flash shadow caused by the lens hood.

but if yo have a K20, forget the flash, get a faster lens and shoot high ISO without flash, It is a lot of fun

quenched · 01-22-2009, 09:59 AM

why a wireless trigger?

whats wrong with hotshoe firing? (excuse my ignorance with portable flash)

Do pentax flashes have the same specialised interrelationship with the bodies as say Canon do?

quenched · 01-22-2009, 10:01 AM

Cant post yet, still waiting on the cable to dump too my mac/pc.

Will i need to load anything on before i can?

Cheers

quenched · 01-22-2009, 10:08 AM

Deaner, it seems like a great little lens so far.

The club is extremely dark in some corners. Normally i shoot full manual yet with f4 i just went shutter priority and left it wide open. What settings do you use generally? ie afs? tv? av? m? ISO?

My 30d would get ugly noise around 600 iso, what is true for the k20? im thinking around 1000 (?)

thank you everybody

quenched · 01-22-2009, 10:15 AM

a good dedicated hot shoe flash with focus assist will help hunting, because all cameras have trouble in low light not only pentax.

Faster lens also will help hunting,

the hot shoe flash , as others have mentioned will eliminate the problem of a flash shadow caused by the lens hood.

but if yo have a K20, forget the flash, get a faster lens and shoot high ISO without flash, It is a lot of fun

Lowell, i normally do. This joint is probably too dark for a 2.8. What ISO can you shoot up to sharply? what glass?

I will give the 1.4 sigma a crack in there when it arrives.

Cheers

PS anyone know a good simple site/thread for achieving professional results shooting flash?

247nino · 01-22-2009, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by quenched

Has anyone else experienced the shadow i speak of?

Does Pentax have a flash set up that is designed especially automated for their cameras or will the old (but very good) Sunpak i have do the job?

IF ANYONE HAS SOME TIPS FOR SHOOTING IN LOW LIGHT WITH THE PENTAX K20 THAT IS UNIQUE/SPECIFIC TO THE MODEL AS OPPOSED TO A GENERAL ISSUE I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT.

Also does the IS system effect IQ if it is on yet there is no camera shake (i have a very steady hand but shoot in very bumpy environments often)

Nice, I can answer your question and give some tips, this is a rarity because I usually suck.

I only experience that shadow using on board tiny flash and a lens with a big hood.

As far as flashes, its best to use a dedicated P-ttl flash, I'm scared to be firing other flashes mounted on my hotshoe.
strobist.org is a great BORING COMMUNITY, you can learn but you will get bored with the technical crap
onelightworkshop.com is much better but skip all of that and remember this when strobing/flashing
*EXPOSURE CONTROLS AMBIENT LIGHT
*APERTURE CONTROLS FLASH EXPOSURE

TIPS
heres my old setup

I say old because I cut down from using that

k20/grip, 16-50, 540/diffuser, led/bracket to

k10/grip, 18-55, 360/no diffuser, no led

and then finally to
k10/grip, 16-50, 360/fake omnibounce/with LED gaffer's taped to it

with my journey through the different setups I
*learned how to control p-ttl with the diffuser
*learned that p-ttl sucks anyway for a nightclub
*disliked how big my rig looked; its intimitdating!
*I only turn the LED on when I absolutely need it
*decided that 2mp in jpeg is the way to go since I resize my photos to long edge 1200pixels
*and I dont take the k20d to the club anymore because the K10 is just as awesome
*shooting with the 360 flash in manual on 1/8 power and using apertures from f5.0-f7.1 gives me nice lighting from 3-8ft which is usually my distance from the subjects/club goers
*I use the center focus selector and I focus on faces and recompose with the shutter half pressed

some don'ts at the club -
dont shoot at f2.8 or wider
dont shoot at f2.8 or wider
dont shoot at f2.8 or wider

SR
you can see that I move my hands quite a lot in my photos, SR on or off it doesnt matter once you start controlling that flash whether its on or off the camera, you will get sharp photos.

about fast lenses... if you can control your flash(aperture +power)/ambient light(exposure) then all a fast lens does for you is make it easier to focus and hunt less because it will focus with the lens wide open at 2.8 to let it more light

the kit lens gives me these @ f4.0:

and the 16-50 gives me these @ f4.0 and higher:

MrApollinax · 01-22-2009, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by 247nino

k10/grip, 16-50, 360/fake omnibounce/with LED gaffer's taped to it

Your fake omnibounce intrigues me good sir. Please post a picture and share!

01-22-2009, 09:21 AM	#1
quenched Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: byronbay Photos: Gallery Posts: 60	THE SEXY PEOPLE and FLASH ISSUES I have recently been shooting in a local nightclub, i used the k20d there for the first time last night. It took me a little while to get the settings to work, i was having lots of very soft focus issues and hunting. Prob due to the F4 16-45 too. Anyway it appears the on board flash is casting a blob shadow in many of the shots, i dont normally shoot flash and prefer the fast primes when shooting gigs but the club environment needs a zoom honestly. Anyway Q's are this. Has anyone else experienced the shadow i speak of? Does Pentax have a flash set up that is designed especially automated for their cameras or will the old (but very good) Sunpak i have do the job? IF ANYONE HAS SOME TIPS FOR SHOOTING IN LOW LIGHT WITH THE PENTAX K20 THAT IS UNIQUE/SPECIFIC TO THE MODEL AS OPPOSED TO A GENERAL ISSUE I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT. Also does the IS system effect IQ if it is on yet there is no camera shake (i have a very steady hand but shoot in very bumpy environments often) THIS SEEMS LIKE A GREAT LITTLE BODY SO FAR AND IM ENJOYING 'THE CURVE' Thank You all once more.

01-22-2009, 12:03 PM	#14
247nino Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 302	"here I am rock you like a hurricane" -the mooninites Originally posted by quenched Has anyone else experienced the shadow i speak of? Does Pentax have a flash set up that is designed especially automated for their cameras or will the old (but very good) Sunpak i have do the job? IF ANYONE HAS SOME TIPS FOR SHOOTING IN LOW LIGHT WITH THE PENTAX K20 THAT IS UNIQUE/SPECIFIC TO THE MODEL AS OPPOSED TO A GENERAL ISSUE I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT. Also does the IS system effect IQ if it is on yet there is no camera shake (i have a very steady hand but shoot in very bumpy environments often) Nice, I can answer your question and give some tips, this is a rarity because I usually suck. I only experience that shadow using on board tiny flash and a lens with a big hood. As far as flashes, its best to use a dedicated P-ttl flash, I'm scared to be firing other flashes mounted on my hotshoe. strobist.org is a great BORING COMMUNITY, you can learn but you will get bored with the technical crap onelightworkshop.com is much better but skip all of that and remember this when strobing/flashing EXPOSURE CONTROLS AMBIENT LIGHT APERTURE CONTROLS FLASH EXPOSURE TIPS heres my old setup I say old because I cut down from using that k20/grip, 16-50, 540/diffuser, led/bracket to k10/grip, 18-55, 360/no diffuser, no led and then finally to k10/grip, 16-50, 360/fake omnibounce/with LED gaffer's taped to it with my journey through the different setups I learned how to control p-ttl with the diffuser learned that p-ttl sucks anyway for a nightclub disliked how big my rig looked; its intimitdating! I only turn the LED on when I absolutely need it decided that 2mp in jpeg is the way to go since I resize my photos to long edge 1200pixels and I dont take the k20d to the club anymore because the K10 is just as awesome shooting with the 360 flash in manual on 1/8 power and using apertures from f5.0-f7.1 gives me nice lighting from 3-8ft which is usually my distance from the subjects/club goers I use the center focus selector and I focus on faces and recompose with the shutter half pressed some don'ts at the club - dont shoot at f2.8 or wider dont shoot at f2.8 or wider dont shoot at f2.8 or wider SR you can see that I move my hands quite a lot in my photos, SR on or off it doesnt matter once you start controlling that flash whether its on or off the camera, you will get sharp photos. about fast lenses... if you can control your flash(aperture +power)/ambient light(exposure) then all a fast lens does for you is make it easier to focus and hunt less because it will focus with the lens wide open at 2.8 to let it more light the kit lens gives me these @ f4.0: and the 16-50 gives me these @ f4.0 and higher: Last edited by 247nino; 01-22-2009 at 12:17 PM.

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01-22-2009, 09:26 AM	#2
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	I guess the quick question is what focal length are you shooting when using the 16-45? What you might be seeing is being caused by you shooting at a focal length too wide for the on-board flash. Post a couple examples please.

01-22-2009, 09:28 AM	#3
forensicscientist Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: DFW Texas and Michigan - I commute :) Posts: 1,012	Could "the blob shadow" be from the lens hood?

01-22-2009, 09:29 AM	#4
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Are you referring to a half-moon-ish shadow on the bottom of your shots with the onboard flash? If so, it's likely the lens hood of the 16-45 blocking the flash. Take it off when shooting with flash, especially at wide angle.

01-22-2009, 09:30 AM	#5
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	LOL talk about pouncing a thread. 3 replies in 3min

01-22-2009, 09:37 AM	#6
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	You can experiment with the ISO settings when shooting in low light as well.

01-22-2009, 09:37 AM	#7
deaner Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 25	The on board flash is a waste of time, IMO. As a last resort, OK, but anything else I'm afraid isn't worth the trouble. If money is an issue, I can understand, but if you can afford it, I would find a decent used flash and a cheap wireless trigger. The dead spot you're referring to is the end of the lens blocking part of the flash, especially if you've got the barrel of the lens extended. You should try to avoid ANY flash that is too close the lens, if you can.

01-22-2009, 09:41 AM	#8
deaner Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 25	I've got the 16-45mm zoom and I'm very happy with it. Like most lenses in a dark place, it WILL hunt for a focus point. But I've had decent success with the lens in clubs: Flash As Stage Lighting - a set on Flickr

01-22-2009, 09:57 AM	#9
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	a good dedicated hot shoe flash with focus assist will help hunting, because all cameras have trouble in low light not only pentax. Faster lens also will help hunting, the hot shoe flash , as others have mentioned will eliminate the problem of a flash shadow caused by the lens hood. but if yo have a K20, forget the flash, get a faster lens and shoot high ISO without flash, It is a lot of fun

01-22-2009, 09:59 AM	#10
quenched Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: byronbay Photos: Gallery Posts: 60 Original Poster	why a wireless trigger? whats wrong with hotshoe firing? (excuse my ignorance with portable flash) Do pentax flashes have the same specialised interrelationship with the bodies as say Canon do?

01-22-2009, 10:01 AM	#11
quenched Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: byronbay Photos: Gallery Posts: 60 Original Poster	Cant post yet, still waiting on the cable to dump too my mac/pc. Will i need to load anything on before i can? Cheers

01-22-2009, 10:08 AM	#12
quenched Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: byronbay Photos: Gallery Posts: 60 Original Poster	Deaner, it seems like a great little lens so far. The club is extremely dark in some corners. Normally i shoot full manual yet with f4 i just went shutter priority and left it wide open. What settings do you use generally? ie afs? tv? av? m? ISO? My 30d would get ugly noise around 600 iso, what is true for the k20? im thinking around 1000 (?) thank you everybody

01-22-2009, 10:15 AM	#13
quenched Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: byronbay Photos: Gallery Posts: 60 Original Poster	a good dedicated hot shoe flash with focus assist will help hunting, because all cameras have trouble in low light not only pentax. Faster lens also will help hunting, the hot shoe flash , as others have mentioned will eliminate the problem of a flash shadow caused by the lens hood. but if yo have a K20, forget the flash, get a faster lens and shoot high ISO without flash, It is a lot of fun Lowell, i normally do. This joint is probably too dark for a 2.8. What ISO can you shoot up to sharply? what glass? I will give the 1.4 sigma a crack in there when it arrives. Cheers PS anyone know a good simple site/thread for achieving professional results shooting flash?

01-22-2009, 12:12 PM	#15
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	Originally posted by 247nino k10/grip, 16-50, 360/*fake omnibounce*/with LED gaffer's taped to it Your fake omnibounce intrigues me good sir. Please post a picture and share!