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01-23-2009, 01:30 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by elkarrde Quote
i also had the opportunity to test the D80, and i must concur - i'm not impressed at all.

build quality is much lower than K100Ds, it's bigger, bulkier than K100Ds, but it's really nice to tweak aperture and ISO values in smaller steps.

strange thing you praise the AF - i found AF extremely slow and extremely unrelialble, it couldn't lock where K100Ds locked almost instantly. probably because of the lens - sigma 17-70 (i think). my bro's gf (her's nikon) is so disappointed with AF, she even keeps it turned constantly on MF.
i'll try to borrow it again with the kit lens and test it out again...

also, consider that while D80 can AF with screw-drive lenses, it will refuse to meter with older, non-CPU lenses. very un-pentaxian.
(oh, soccerjoe was faster than me to point that out )
Your bro's GF use the kit lens yet? It's fast, much faster than the Sigmas

01-23-2009, 02:09 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
Your bro's GF use the kit lens yet? It's fast, much faster than the Sigmas
thanks, i'll tell her that.

actually, her olympus E410 went to repair (it tried to learn to fly ), so she borrowed D80 for photography classes, i don't even know if she got the kit lens.
01-23-2009, 02:53 AM   #18
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Both Nikon D80s I've seen and used have "glue problems": one of them was 2 months old when I first saw it, the other one was 5 months old and the rubber on both the models was peeling off. On one of the bodies, the external finish looked as if it was chipping off. Unacceptable for a body of this price and of such a prestigious brand.
01-23-2009, 03:35 AM   #19
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i must admit I did have a soft spot for Nikon D80 and now D90 but would only use as a 2nd backup myself one day maybe.The only thing is that Nikkor glass is hideously expensive,so K10D is with me for a long good time


cheers

01-23-2009, 08:01 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
I bought my other half a D80 (and have a D90 too myself)... There is a big step up between those two cameras, the D80 does feel a little dated to me, especially compared to the K20d (it compares better to the K10d, I think they were both released in 2006), though I think the D80 wasn't really a special model in my mind, not like the K10d was on release....

I do think the 85/1.8 is a very worthwhile purchase, a huge step up from the 50/1.8..

Another good price/performance ratio lens would be the 180/2.8 (even better bargain second hand)..

I am also in love with the Sigma 150mm macro and am still a little annoyed that Sigma still haven't released that in Pentax mount..
I handled and shot a D90 for quite a while, and although it's a very 'new'
feeling camera and I like that sensor, it wasn't worth it as a second body, and
wasn't really superior to the K20D (in my view) to be considered as a first
body. D80 was is a perfect price point/feature set combo for what I need it for.

I've heard great things about that 180 2.8 also.



QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Wow I almost did the same thing with the nikon second body Idea...

I struggled long and hard about keeping the K100d and getting the D90+18-105 kit with a fast 50 and that 85mm you are looking at. All for the fast focus shots of the kids. And some shallow DOF video fun.

I ended up with a k20d and still I am not sure I made the right choice, but in 8 months, the used market will be flooded with d90's so I might just get one then. I did shoot with my cousin's d80 and found I feel pretty much the same way about it. The AF spanked my k100d with the tamron 28-75. Even with the slow kit on the D80 it hunted less indoors. And it was pretty good outdoors tracking the kids or at least caught them in focus more often.

I did not really like the feel, although as you said the controls were nicely laid out. And the flash... she has the cheapest of the Nikon flashes but it was way more consistant than my flash on the k100d...

Having said all of that, everything I enjoyed about the K100d is hands down better with the K20d, except my little af hiccups. The issues that I have learned to deal with on the k100d are still there, but the output of that sensor is pretty nice.

Someday that used d90 or used d300 will be my second/family snapper. But for now I close my eyes, push the button and hope for the best
I think you did the right thing overall - it's not like the K20D is really that bad at
AF, but the D80 with the 50 1.8 was just better.

And the more I try other bodies, the more I appreciate that K100DS - special little
package, that.


QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
I used a D80 for more than a year and I absolutely loved it. What I miss about it are:

1. AF - Depends on the lens used too
2. Hard buttons to change pretty much everything. One thing I miss is changing WB quickly. On the K20D it's easy to change to custom WB, but it takes longer. The D80 it's harder to remember the shortcut but once you do, it's way faster.
3. Shutter sound. The D80 shutter sounds very soft, nice soft mirror slap. Honestly, I don't really like the sound of the K20D, but I don't mind it anymore. It sounds... electronic-ish.
4. The Fn button and some of the button placement. Actually the only thing I don't like about the K20D button placement is the placement of the Fn button. I have to stretch my thumb down to reach it. Wish it were a bit easier to reach.

About the tungsten WB, there are so many variations of tungsten light bulbs nowadays. I just pull out my tiny gray card and do custom. Perfect colors every time

You are right about the other things too. The build of the K20D is much better. More solid. The SD card door of the D80 feels flimsy. That 50mm you're referring to is half the price of our FA50 so I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't feel or perform as good. The K20D gives me much more detail in the dark areas, which I love. And the ISO grain/noise is much more pleasing.

One more thing is I prefer the metering of the K20D more than the D80. The D80 is designed to expose more for the darks, so it's quite easy to blow highlights with it. Like any camera, it's something you learn and will soon become second nature. The K20D tends to expose so that it won't blow highlights, makes good sense since it holds a lot of detail in the darks.

I miss that camera, Jay. Great choice

Oh do yourself a favor and DON'T try the Nikon flash system. Seriously, that system blows ours away. Cheaper and much better (build, controls) flashes. The CLS is just awesome and much more reliable. I can't wait til Pentax updates the flash system.
Good points - and I never use flash, but maybe I'll give the D80's a try.

And yes, here's the lens compatibility of the D80, metering is still
manual with some AF lenses:

Code:
D80 Lens compatibility  	

• DX Nikkor : All functions supported
• Type G or D AF Nikkor : All functions supported
• Micro Nikkor 85 mm F2.8D : All functions supported except autofocus and some exposure modes
• Other AF Nikkor*2 : All functions supported except 3D color matrix metering, i-TTL balanced fill-fl ash for digital SLR
• Non-CPU : Can be used in exposure mode M, but exposure meter does not function; electronic range finder can be used if maximum aperture is f/5.6 or faster
*1 IX Nikkor lenses can not be used
*2 Excluding lenses for F3AF


.
01-23-2009, 03:33 PM   #21
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jsherman,

Great choice! When I first got into the world of dslr's, the D80 was at the top at my list before I bought the K10D in January last year. I agree that it handles very nicely and has great AF. Of course, it was nice to get the K10D for $509 body only compared to the $999 the D80 was going for at the time.

I've also played with the D90, D300 and D700 in the past year. I like my K20D, but am very curious about the D300 for the superb AF. What would be your choice (between the K20D, D300, and D90) if price was not a consideration?

I thought about buying a Canon 40D as a second body as well, it seems M42's are easier to adapt for Canon than Nikon. But I'd probably take the D300 over the 40D (not a fair comparison, I know).
01-23-2009, 03:52 PM   #22
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Pentax needs to listen to these threads, you are the 4th person in 3 weeks to pick up a D80 because of the Pentax stutter stutter stutter AF.

I posted a similar thread a week or so ago after picking up a D80 and an 18-70and here are my opinions ......

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.

1) The K20D, (and K100DS & K-M for that matter) have better build quality than
the D80. If you tap the plastic of the D80, it sounds hollow and cheaper - the
Pentax bodies sound more solid. The SD card door and port door are flimsy
enough to worry me. The figures on the K20D top dial are in relief - on the
D80, the figures are painted on and the dial looks cheap.
It feels less solid because it's not a friggin brick. Pentax cameras are too damn heavy and feel 'tipsy' when shooting one handed. i have the 100D and it's not even close to as comfortable to hold as the D80 IMHO.

QuoteQuote:
2) The handling and grip-ability of the D80 is very good, and button placement
is intuitive.
Sort of. To change Wb and ISo you need to contort yourself, the buttons near the shutter I don't use often so wish i could swap with the WB and ISO buttons. Exposure comp is backwards too which is plain stupid IMHO.

QuoteQuote:
4) The Nikon 50mm f/1.8 D is very cheap looking and feeling, but is a pretty good
lens optically. Not as good as the FA 50, maybe.
My 18-70 is soft but it's a please to use a lens free of abberations and fringing, PENTAXC GET A HANDLE ON THIS PROBLEM PLEASE.

QuoteQuote:
6) Shake reduction has spoiled me and probably given me some bad habits -
with slow shutter speeds on the D80, I have to really try to remember - be still.
Be very still.
Ohhhhhhh boy did that shock me, amazing, really, really taken aback.

QuoteQuote:
8) AF speed - D80 wins hands down in low-light, almost never hunts with the
50 1.8 even wide-open, and is accurate - but I don't think it's quite as accurate
as the K20D. But jury's still out on that.
It's not just the speed but the silent shutter the silent AF, eevrything is just silky smooth and ultra, ultra predictable. Aim, half press, fire ... BANG it grabs the shot. pentax is a solid 10 years behind.

QuoteQuote:
9) Image quality. Can't fully judge this yet, because I had no natural light to
shoot in, but very early impressions confirm that the K20D is, as I suspected,
something special. I don't think the D80 is going to match that.
Here was the big shock, i know I have a soft copy of the lens but dear me. I shoot RAW only and the 10MP sensor is just, i mean .. i'm speechless. it's an absolute horror show above ISO400 .... i cannot beleive anyone can get by with that sensor. It's two stops worse than the little 100D in this regard.

Overall if they shrunk the body a tad and moved a few buttons around it's a super, super camera .... needs a better sensor though.
01-23-2009, 04:03 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by edl Quote
it seems M42's are easier to adapt for Canon than Nikon.
actually, it's impossible to adapt M42 lens on nikon AND retain infinitiy focus without adapter with corrective optics - register distance on nikon is approx. 1mm too long.
on the other side, canon EF-mount has much shorter register distance, so it's possible to adapt almost every other lens to canon with simple adapter rings only.

01-23-2009, 04:09 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
Here was the big shock, i know I have a soft copy of the lens but dear me. I shoot RAW only and the 10MP sensor is just, i mean .. i'm speechless. it's an absolute horror show above ISO400 .... i cannot beleive anyone can get by with that sensor. It's two stops worse than the little 100D in this regard.
It can't be the sensor only, because the K200D is at least as good as the K100D in high ISO noise when comparing images at the same size, and as far as I know the D80 and K200D use the same sensor.
01-23-2009, 04:16 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
and as far as I know the D80 and K200D use the same sensor.
Sony ICX483AQA

vs

Sony ICX493AQA

http://www.pbase.com/ole_thorsen/image/74434001

http://www.pbase.com/ole_thorsen/image/74434002
01-23-2009, 04:19 PM   #26
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well, obviously one of them is 10AQA's better than the other
01-23-2009, 04:21 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
well, obviously one of them is 10AQA's better than the other
reads faster
01-23-2009, 04:46 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
It feels less solid because it's not a friggin brick. Pentax cameras are too damn heavy and feel 'tipsy' when shooting one handed.
Err...there's not much weight difference. The K10D feels more solid than the D80 IMHO because it's better built. The D80 does feel more solid if you add the battery grip. And believe it or not, I thought the D80's shutter click sounded flimsy because it was so quiet

Also, FWIW, a friend and I made a purchase decision at the same time last year w/ the same short list. He ended up w/ the D80 and I ended up w/ the K10D because our primary subject matters are different. He got it to take photos of his kids w/ flash (Nikon's flash system is the best) while I wanted to use the K10D for landscape photos (it survived the dust hole known as Antelope Canyon w/o problems this year). He was tempted by the K10D because it was better bang for buck, but I kept nudging him towards the D80 because of his primary requirement of good flash control.
We both made the right decision because we listed our priorities and made sure the result fit...
It's not that he doesn't complain about his D80's tendency to overexpose (I think the D90 fixes this metering issue) and his rear wheel is starting to have momentary contact, but he's been generally happy so far.

As long as the OP understands his priorities, there are lots of great choices now and it's a great time to enjoy taking photos...
01-23-2009, 05:10 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Err...there's not much weight difference. The K10D feels more solid than the D80 IMHO because it's better built. The D80 does feel more solid if you add the battery grip. And believe it or not, I thought the D80's shutter click sounded flimsy because it was so quiet

Also, FWIW, a friend and I made a purchase decision at the same time last year w/ the same short list. He ended up w/ the D80 and I ended up w/ the K10D because our primary subject matters are different. He got it to take photos of his kids w/ flash (Nikon's flash system is the best) while I wanted to use the K10D for landscape photos (it survived the dust hole known as Antelope Canyon w/o problems this year). He was tempted by the K10D because it was better bang for buck, but I kept nudging him towards the D80 because of his primary requirement of good flash control.
We both made the right decision because we listed our priorities and made sure the result fit...
It's not that he doesn't complain about his D80's tendency to overexpose (I think the D90 fixes this metering issue) and his rear wheel is starting to have momentary contact, but he's been generally happy so far.

As long as the OP understands his priorities, there are lots of great choices now and it's a great time to enjoy taking photos...
Almost two years ago, I considered both the D80 and the K10D. While I thought the build quality of the D80 was (and is) inferior to the Pentax product, my decision was based upon what I would use it for and camera handling. There was also the issue with the price of compatible glass. Both are good cameras and for anyone purchasing new and considering the D80, D90, K20D, or K200D I suggest doing the research, consider your type of shooting, actually spend some time with the cameras and go from there. All four will make excellent images and all are a great value. (Though the K20D in my assessment is the value king of the current dSLR world.)

I am a little surprised that Jay did not like the KM/K2000, but if you need faster AF in dim light, the AF assist can make a huge difference.

Steve
01-23-2009, 05:32 PM   #30
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Pls see this link re the "slow AF" of Pentax.

jonne : photos : Orimattilan ralli- powered by SmugMug

cheers,

rene
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