K200d shack reduction delay

bizi · 01-25-2009, 07:37 PM

It seems to me that the shack reduction of K200d only kicks in about .5 to 1 second after half-pressing the shutter release. At first, I thought it has something to do with auto focusing, but they appear to be independent.
You thoughts?
Thanks.

alderfall · 01-25-2009, 08:03 PM

Hello bizi...

I have a K200D myself. I am a fairly new owner of the camera but I have not seen any strange action involving the shake reduction. Can you explain the exact circumstance when you encounter this situation? How do you know it kicks in a second after focusing?

ariahspam · 01-25-2009, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by bizi

It seems to me that the shack reduction of K200d only kicks in about .5 to 1 second after half-pressing the shutter release. At first, I thought it has something to do with auto focusing, but they appear to be independent.
You thoughts?
Thanks.

It happens to me with the k20d. If a photo is taken during this interval, the result is a very blurry photo. (even worse than without the SR). So I'll have to recommend you: only use SR when you really need it.

SpecialK · 01-25-2009, 08:53 PM

That is about right. The "hand" symbol in the viewfinder will light when shake reduction is active. Check the manual.

bizi · 01-26-2009, 03:24 PM

Thanks. ariahspam stated what I meant. I don't know if it is worse than SR off though because I don't have means to do scientific comparison. Simply put, if I didn't half press the shutter release long enough (till the hand symbol shows), SR won't work.

I think SpecialK indicated that this is by design, which I fully expect. This design is a problem when trying to do a quick snap though, and in some cases, even auto focus finishes before SR is ready. For situations manual pre-focus is used, it would be a bigger problem... I don't know why it takes so long for SR to get ready.

Marc Sabatella · 01-26-2009, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by bizi

For situations manual pre-focus is used, it would be a bigger problem...

Not really. Just rest your finger on the shutter while pre-focusing. Learn to ride the half-press so the SR is always ready before you need it.

Quote:

I don't know why it takes so long for SR to get ready.

It's a physical / mechanical process. I'm amazed it works at all.

alderfall · 01-28-2009, 01:10 PM

I agree with these points. I think my original confusion was based upon the point that I am a half shutter button guy myself. I have never really picked up on the whole "press the shutter down all the way like a non digital SLR" process. Maybe I was trained early in my digital camera experience with half shutter button action.

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Not really. Just rest your finger on the shutter while pre-focusing. Learn to ride the half-press so the SR is always ready before you need it.

It's a physical / mechanical process. I'm amazed it works at all.

Arpe · 01-28-2009, 04:19 PM

Hopefully Pentax are working on speeding up the response time for the SR. The delay, I find, is frustrating at times, especially when you want that shot, need SR, and that shot is disappearing!

I'm not complaining by any stretch, but wouldn't it be cool if it was "instant on"?

bizi · 02-04-2009, 09:50 PM

Arpe, feel the same here. I didn't see this being discussed in the formal reviews that I read. It is an issue especially when the competition is compared to.
I also feel the SR is less effective on long zooms, and think about it, it makes sense giving the technology. Again I didn't do scientific test, and just a feeling based on the picture results.
Overall, SR as is is a valuable tool, but wish it could be improved to befit such a great camera. Optical SR is a main stream feature now(even on non-SLRs), and not many designs require such a delay.

KungPOW · 02-04-2009, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by bizi

Arpe, feel the same here. I didn't see this being discussed in the formal reviews that I read. It is an issue especially when the competition is compared to.
I also feel the SR is less effective on long zooms, and think about it, it makes sense giving the technology. Again I didn't do scientific test, and just a feeling based on the picture results.
Overall, SR as is is a valuable tool, but wish it could be improved to befit such a great camera. Optical SR is a main stream feature now(even on non-SLRs), and not many designs require such a delay.

Optical SR systems also have a delay. It is as noticable on a Canon as it is on a Pentax.

You should also note that optical systems are not available in all lenses. Take Canon for example, they do not have IS in their prime lenses. have a look and you will see how few lenses they have that are IS.

The other thing to remember is that SR does not replace good handholding technique. For SR to work its best, you need to take a moment to brace your arms to you body, control your breathing, and sqeeze the shutter. By the time you are set to take the photo, that is more then enough time for the SR mechanism to start up. This is also true of optical systems.

And finally, I can't think of any situation where I would need "Instant on SR". Most of the time, SR is used to add to the low light ability of the camera, because you are using a slow shutter. Maybe if you are trying to capture motion blur with a sharp background.

The only time that I fell optical systems clearly outperform body based systems is when I shoot film.

kenyee · 02-05-2009, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by KungPOW

Optical SR systems also have a delay. It is as noticable on a Canon as it is on a Pentax.

Ditto w/ Nikon. It takes about .5sec as well for a VR lens but you can see it happening in the viewfinder.
Get used to holding a half shutter press because you have to do it on any system...

Wheatfield · 02-05-2009, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by bizi

I also feel the SR is less effective on long zooms, and think about it, it makes sense giving the technology. Again I didn't do scientific test, and just a feeling based on the picture results.

Somewhere around here I have some pictures taken handheld with my 600mm lens on whichever camera was the first Pentax to have SR. The difference between SR on and off was quite startling.
[/quote]
Overall, SR as is is a valuable tool, but wish it could be improved to befit such a great camera. Optical SR is a main stream feature now(even on non-SLRs), and not many designs require such a delay.[/quote]

I'm not seeing the same problem you are seeing. I'd much rather have in body SR and get the benefit of it on all my lenses rather than have in lens SR and not get the benefit of SR on many of my lenses.
My understanding is that in lens VR isn't instantaneously available either. I think the camera needs a bit of time to determine camera movement prior to being able to give effective SR, consequently, the time lag is necessary for the feature to work at all.
I suppose they could have it invoked all the time the camera is on, but I bet it's a battery hog on par with the LCD.

yeedub · 02-05-2009, 10:22 AM

If you open up a picture in PhotoME, you can see the duration of time SR was enabled before the picture is taken.

01-25-2009, 07:37 PM	#1
bizi Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5	K200d shack reduction delay It seems to me that the shack reduction of K200d only kicks in about .5 to 1 second after half-pressing the shutter release. At first, I thought it has something to do with auto focusing, but they appear to be independent. You thoughts? Thanks.

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01-25-2009, 08:03 PM	#2
alderfall Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Southern Oregon Coast Photos: Gallery Posts: 127	Hello bizi... I have a K200D myself. I am a fairly new owner of the camera but I have not seen any strange action involving the shake reduction. Can you explain the exact circumstance when you encounter this situation? How do you know it kicks in a second after focusing?

01-25-2009, 08:25 PM	#3
ariahspam Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lima, Peru Posts: 68	Originally posted by bizi It seems to me that the shack reduction of K200d only kicks in about .5 to 1 second after half-pressing the shutter release. At first, I thought it has something to do with auto focusing, but they appear to be independent. You thoughts? Thanks. It happens to me with the k20d. If a photo is taken during this interval, the result is a very blurry photo. (even worse than without the SR). So I'll have to recommend you: only use SR when you really need it.

01-25-2009, 08:53 PM	#4
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	That is about right. The "hand" symbol in the viewfinder will light when shake reduction is active. Check the manual.

01-26-2009, 03:24 PM	#5
bizi Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5 Original Poster	Thanks. ariahspam stated what I meant. I don't know if it is worse than SR off though because I don't have means to do scientific comparison. Simply put, if I didn't half press the shutter release long enough (till the hand symbol shows), SR won't work. I think SpecialK indicated that this is by design, which I fully expect. This design is a problem when trying to do a quick snap though, and in some cases, even auto focus finishes before SR is ready. For situations manual pre-focus is used, it would be a bigger problem... I don't know why it takes so long for SR to get ready.

01-26-2009, 04:37 PM	#6
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by bizi For situations manual pre-focus is used, it would be a bigger problem... Not really. Just rest your finger on the shutter while pre-focusing. Learn to ride the half-press so the SR is always ready before you need it. Quote: I don't know why it takes so long for SR to get ready. It's a physical / mechanical process. I'm amazed it works at all.

01-28-2009, 01:10 PM	#7
alderfall Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Southern Oregon Coast Photos: Gallery Posts: 127	I agree with these points. I think my original confusion was based upon the point that I am a half shutter button guy myself. I have never really picked up on the whole "press the shutter down all the way like a non digital SLR" process. Maybe I was trained early in my digital camera experience with half shutter button action. Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Not really. Just rest your finger on the shutter while pre-focusing. Learn to ride the half-press so the SR is always ready before you need it. It's a physical / mechanical process. I'm amazed it works at all.

01-28-2009, 04:19 PM	#8
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Hopefully Pentax are working on speeding up the response time for the SR. The delay, I find, is frustrating at times, especially when you want that shot, need SR, and that shot is disappearing! I'm not complaining by any stretch, but wouldn't it be cool if it was "instant on"?

02-04-2009, 09:50 PM	#9
bizi Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5 Original Poster	Arpe, feel the same here. I didn't see this being discussed in the formal reviews that I read. It is an issue especially when the competition is compared to. I also feel the SR is less effective on long zooms, and think about it, it makes sense giving the technology. Again I didn't do scientific test, and just a feeling based on the picture results. Overall, SR as is is a valuable tool, but wish it could be improved to befit such a great camera. Optical SR is a main stream feature now(even on non-SLRs), and not many designs require such a delay.

02-04-2009, 10:37 PM	#10
KungPOW Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,699	Originally posted by bizi Arpe, feel the same here. I didn't see this being discussed in the formal reviews that I read. It is an issue especially when the competition is compared to. I also feel the SR is less effective on long zooms, and think about it, it makes sense giving the technology. Again I didn't do scientific test, and just a feeling based on the picture results. Overall, SR as is is a valuable tool, but wish it could be improved to befit such a great camera. Optical SR is a main stream feature now(even on non-SLRs), and not many designs require such a delay. Optical SR systems also have a delay. It is as noticable on a Canon as it is on a Pentax. You should also note that optical systems are not available in all lenses. Take Canon for example, they do not have IS in their prime lenses. have a look and you will see how few lenses they have that are IS. The other thing to remember is that SR does not replace good handholding technique. For SR to work its best, you need to take a moment to brace your arms to you body, control your breathing, and sqeeze the shutter. By the time you are set to take the photo, that is more then enough time for the SR mechanism to start up. This is also true of optical systems. And finally, I can't think of any situation where I would need "Instant on SR". Most of the time, SR is used to add to the low light ability of the camera, because you are using a slow shutter. Maybe if you are trying to capture motion blur with a sharp background. The only time that I fell optical systems clearly outperform body based systems is when I shoot film.

02-05-2009, 07:44 AM	#11
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by KungPOW Optical SR systems also have a delay. It is as noticable on a Canon as it is on a Pentax. Ditto w/ Nikon. It takes about .5sec as well for a VR lens but you can see it happening in the viewfinder. Get used to holding a half shutter press because you have to do it on any system...

02-05-2009, 08:09 AM	#12
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by bizi I also feel the SR is less effective on long zooms, and think about it, it makes sense giving the technology. Again I didn't do scientific test, and just a feeling based on the picture results. Somewhere around here I have some pictures taken handheld with my 600mm lens on whichever camera was the first Pentax to have SR. The difference between SR on and off was quite startling. [/quote] Overall, SR as is is a valuable tool, but wish it could be improved to befit such a great camera. Optical SR is a main stream feature now(even on non-SLRs), and not many designs require such a delay.[/quote] I'm not seeing the same problem you are seeing. I'd much rather have in body SR and get the benefit of it on all my lenses rather than have in lens SR and not get the benefit of SR on many of my lenses. My understanding is that in lens VR isn't instantaneously available either. I think the camera needs a bit of time to determine camera movement prior to being able to give effective SR, consequently, the time lag is necessary for the feature to work at all. I suppose they could have it invoked all the time the camera is on, but I bet it's a battery hog on par with the LCD.

02-05-2009, 10:22 AM	#13
yeedub Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 78	If you open up a picture in PhotoME, you can see the duration of time SR was enabled before the picture is taken.