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01-29-2009, 04:26 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edward B. Quote
That's one thing I forgot to ask a question about, the weather sealing.

Just what does that mean, exactly?
You asked the right questions, but my impression from reading various responses to similar questions over the last year or so is, no one really knows for sure. There is also debate over the extent to which a sealed body with an unsealed lens is worth anything. I think it is - it's not like water is going to come gushing in through the lens mount, especially if you're even slightly careful about *how* you use the camera in the rain. But there have been essentially no controlled tests.

So I look sealing at it the way I look at SR - it's not a foolproof guarantee of anything, but it does help. I'm still careful, but a bit more bold.

QuoteQuote:
Dust being kicked up at a rodeo?

A light rain?

Snow?
I've done all of the above. Also sand & spray at the beach. But I've also done all of this with unsealed cameras - I was just that much more judicious about it.

QuoteQuote:
I also understand that most of the differences in image quality that I'm talking about are things that will likely matter only to professional photographers.
And of course, it is precisely the people to whom these relatively small differences in default JPEG quality might matter that are the least likely to be affected by them, because they are also the ones most likely to spend some time tweaking the settings to their liking and/or shooting RAW and/or doing post-processing to get the results the way they want them. That is, these folks aren't shooting straight-from-the-camera-all-automatic-settings JPEG's.

QuoteQuote:
I just have a habit of looking into every little detail before I make a purchase like this. Of course, half the time it still doesn't result in making the best decision.
I can totally relate :-). But here's something I am able to comfort myself with, and maybe it will help you:

They're both great cameras. Bottom line, you can be happy with either camera. There are no wrong choices here. So obsess all you like to hlp you make your choice, but there's not a wrong choice here.

Although if it were me, SR would be such a huge differentiator I really wouldn't be considering any Canon, ever - SR totally trumps whatever other miniscule differences there might be.

01-29-2009, 07:06 PM   #62
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I understand Nikon is the preference for most portrait/model photographers, and Canon for wildlife and sports, but I have never met one professional photographer wedding photographer, journalist, portrait studio, anyone who uses Pentax. Is Pentax's "niche" pretty much amateur hobbyists?[/QUOTE]


There are several pros on this site that use Pentax. I being one (Cayman Imaging | 303.396.8034). Yes, we don't have the "cool" logos on our cameras, but we learn our system, always better ourselves with our art and have a great family here to learn even more.

Don't worry about what everyone else buys. When I first bought my first SLR, a friend of mine took me to a camera store. I looked at two. One was a Minolta and the other was a Pentax. I looked at the Minolta first because it was a name I knew and was popluar at the time. It was ok. I then checked out the Pentax. The viewfinder was bright and it felt like a brick. I was sold on the Pentax. That's all it took!! Been in love since and has served me well.

Trust your first thought!! Go with your gut.
01-29-2009, 08:47 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by CaymanImaging Quote
I understand Nikon is the preference for most portrait/model photographers, and Canon for wildlife and sports, but I have never met one professional photographer wedding photographer, journalist, portrait studio, anyone who uses Pentax. Is Pentax's "niche" pretty much amateur hobbyists?

There are several pros on this site that use Pentax. I being one (Cayman Imaging | 303.396.8034). Yes, we don't have the "cool" logos on our cameras, but we learn our system, always better ourselves with our art and have a great family here to learn even more.

Don't worry about what everyone else buys. When I first bought my first SLR, a friend of mine took me to a camera store. I looked at two. One was a Minolta and the other was a Pentax. I looked at the Minolta first because it was a name I knew and was popluar at the time. It was OK. I then checked out the Pentax. The viewfinder was bright and it felt like a brick. I was sold on the Pentax. That's all it took!! Been in love since and has served me well.

Trust your first thought!! Go with your gut.[/QUOTE]


I was in the same situation a few a months ago. I always had Pentax film cameras.
but when it was time to switch to digital I looked around. at first it seemed like there are no pro photographer using Pentax. but I live in NYC in NYC you have some of the best fashion photographers in the world, I asked around there are no pro fashion photographer that don't have or had a Pentax medium format camera. and I read somewhere that there will be soon a digital medium format Pentax. and to me that is a real pro camera. and also if you go to galleries here in NY and look at street and documentary photographers you see that many of the best use Pentax or Olympus for the small cameras and pancake lenss. to me its all about the lenses. but then again people also win contests using Ipod camera and Diana's
saying all that I also think that the xsi is a great camera in some ways maybe better but canon could just not give me the lenses that I want. and I am not a pro I am an armature and Pentax give me the best freedom for my hobby all that is why I personally choose Pentax
01-29-2009, 09:06 PM   #64
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Good for you Red! Be different!! Be Pentax! lol

01-29-2009, 11:14 PM   #65
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Nye 2009

Two friends and I went to shoot the NYE 09 fireworks at Sydney. We did a little competition to see who can take better pictures.

The three camera were
My: K10d + Tamron 70-300mm
Friend 1: 450D 55-300mm
Friend 2: Canon 10D 18-200mm

All three of us used tripods, shot in JPG, each at about 160-180mm, tested a range of f values.

Me and the 450D both had shutter release cables.

This time, the conclusion was my pictures were overall better, in which we all agreed on. However this was not because of image quality, but based on the composition, timing and skill.

After going thru the 150+ images taken from each camera several times. I had to accept the fact that Canon did built a better sensor on the 450D than the k10d (same as the k200d), espeically at higher iso (I'd never shot the k10d at 1600).

So, leaving out the difference in lens as a factor, and coming from our non-scientific practical photo session.
Our results were - in terms of image quality:
450D > k10d >> older 6.1MP 10D

I still play arround and like my friend's 450D, well actually it's almost like my coz I use it more than he does.....but I love my k10d.

My two cent thought.

Here are some sample, no PP with any of these shots.

450D iso400 5sec f5 @131mm


450D iso400 1sec f5.6 @163mm


450D iso400 2sec f5.6 @163mm


450D iso400 0.8sec f5.6@163mm


k10d iso400 6sec f6.0@180mm


k10d iso400 8sec f8.0@160mm


k10d iso400 2sec f8@160mm


k10d iso400 1sec f8@160mm
01-31-2009, 09:47 AM   #66
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One last question: what charger would you recommend for batteries? I found a site by a guy who had done very comprehensive tests, and I believe he came up with a Mahacov.... something like that... for the trickle charger. He recommended that for a primary and then some other charger to top the batteries off. Problem is, I can't find that site again. Any help would be appreciated.
01-31-2009, 11:10 AM   #67
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QuoteQuote:
But for those of us who prefer M mode, or any other less automatic mode, changing ISO does require use of the Fn menu. It's a very simple operation - it's not like it's buried in a menu somewhere or anything like that - but you do have to take your eye off the viewfinder. This is my #1 gripe about the camera. #2 would be that I wish the viewfinder were bigger - but attaching the O-ME53 eyepiece magnifier *does* help.
K20D does it, as it has two wheels.
01-31-2009, 11:53 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
It's not really predictable exactly when it happens unfortunately. But it tends to be worse for indoor shots or in poor light conditions - it's especially maddening for indoor shots when using flash - and you have an external flash with plenty of power, but in the automatic mode, it pretty much never fires at full power, except in complete darkness. That's more of a P-TTL issue I'm afraid.
I used to be frustrated by this too. Now I dial in +1 Flash Exposure Compensation in the flash for P-TTL mode. This gives me perfect exposure about 95% of the times. The key here seems to be Pentax's anal preoccupation to prevent highlight blowouts. For instance, I shot pictures of my son's school swim team in action. I had to dial +1 FEC in flash and +1 in camera, adding up to +2 for perfect exposure. I presume the logic is that the water surface reflects heck of lot of light and the camera fights it. An easy work around has been to use flash in auto mode, keep camera in apperture priority, "lie" to the camera about the f by 2 stops, to get more light out of flash.

Now don't fret about Pentax. Do some reasearch. Google "Nikon D80 exposure problems" or "canon underexposes" etc. Read the threads and be assured that this is a digital SLR malady, not uniquely Pentax's. Cheers.

01-31-2009, 12:47 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edward B. Quote
Thanks for the feedback. Kinda backs up what I've heard: that the XSi generally produces better looking pictures.
May be but not necessarily if you have the right setting to begin with. You can argue that XSi has a newer sensor or better JPEG engine - but I seldom use default setting anyway.

QuoteOriginally posted by Edward B. Quote
Lenses.... To be honest with you, it's going to be the kit lens for a while because of money. Depending on how much use I've gotten out of the camea in 6 months to 1 year, I'd like to pick up a 70-300 telephoto. Although I think there are more veratile ones out there with a max range of 300 but a smaller minimum range? It that's the case, I'd pick that up first. I don't see myself picking up more two or three additional lenses, at least not in the near future. And probably a flash at some point down the road.
If you can afford a little more you can skip the kit lens - get the Pentax 16-45mm or sigma (or tamron) 18-50mm f2.8, you will notice the difference.

QuoteOriginally posted by Edward B. Quote
I hope you meant that there is more fine detail, but more visible noise. I agree that the inclusion of an ISO button would be iffy if you are not shooting manual, but I plan on shooting primarily manual.
on my K10D, I can change ISO without going to Fn menu by pressing OK and tunring the front dial.

QuoteOriginally posted by Edward B. Quote
Yeah, I know. Problem is I have experience with Canon DSLR myself and have found no shortage of people who use Canon, but I have had a hard time finding Pentax users. I was going to post on DP Review as well, but I wasn't able to sign up because of their email requirements, which is a problem because of my access problem right now. That said, if you know of any other good sites out there where I could get some feedback from people who may have used both cameras, let me know!
Don't want to generalize, but most other people brag about how nice their equipment is (such as the expensive L glass), but they usually don't know that we can get similar quality lens for much less and I don't need to throw them a wet blanket.

I also think that SR in the body has some advantage especially on the wide side while others think it is unnecessary. The slight edge is in indoor shots with flash in which I can use 1/30 to 1/10 shutter speed handheld with much success. My Canikon friends just get different results (softness due to hand shake).
01-31-2009, 01:56 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by polur101 Quote
K20D does it, as it has two wheels.
Yep, and the ISO control in M mode and the viewfinder were really the only reasons the K20D even got a second look for me. But in the end, smaller size / lighter weight, support for AA batteries, and price won out.
01-31-2009, 02:02 PM   #71
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Someone might have already said this, but I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages...

You also have to consider the lens aspect of which camera you're going to buy. The Pentax lens selection is simply amazing, just check out the buy and sell forums. On the other hand, Canon has some great lenses, but you have to pay extreme amounts to get them. If you are going to go with Canon though, you might want to check out the XTi, for some reason it does much better on every test than the XSi, might have something to do with the pixel patch. I have one and I've never had a gripe about it.
02-01-2009, 06:11 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edward B. Quote
One last question: what charger would you recommend for batteries? I found a site by a guy who had done very comprehensive tests, and I believe he came up with a Mahacov.... something like that... for the trickle charger. He recommended that for a primary and then some other charger to top the batteries off. Problem is, I can't find that site again. Any help would be appreciated.
Probably he was referring to the MAHA C9000.

You can buy it from Thomas Distributing : Maha MH-C9000 Battery Charger $48.97 MHC9000 - FREE Deluxe Case

Or Amazon - see reviews there :
Amazon.com: Maha Powerex MH-C9000 WizardOne Charger-Analyzer: Electronics

This is the one of the best AA/AAA chargers out there. Pair this with Sanyo Eneloops, and it is the perfect battery solution for the K200D and for many other AA/AAA based devices.

If you don't want to spend that much, just get the eneloop kit at Costco for $28.99, with one charger, 8 AA, 2 AAA, and 4 spacers. The charger is not as good (charges batteries in pairs), but as long as you only use the AAs together in the camera, they should discharge evenly so it is OK to use that charger to recharge them. Just don't mix discharged and newly charged batteries in the Sanyo charger, or you won't get good results unless you use an individual battery charger like the MAHA.
02-01-2009, 06:21 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by polur101 Quote
I used to be frustrated by this too. Now I dial in +1 Flash Exposure Compensation in the flash for P-TTL mode. This gives me perfect exposure about 95% of the times. The key here seems to be Pentax's anal preoccupation to prevent highlight blowouts. For instance, I shot pictures of my son's school swim team in action. I had to dial +1 FEC in flash and +1 in camera, adding up to +2 for perfect exposure.
I guess I need a better flash. My Digital Concepts 952AF/PEN doesn't have any Flash Exposure Compensation settings in TTL mode. It's either fully automatic in TTL mode, or manual power settings - 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 .
02-02-2009, 07:18 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Underexposure: the Pentax cameras absolutely refuse to blow out highlights in multi-segment mode, and they are also stickler for produces ISO standard exposures - a little darker than an 18% gray card on average. Switch to center-weighted metering and suddenly the camera will not be able to try to protect highlights, crating brighter pictures with blown highlights by default just like Canon, if that's what you want. Really, exposure is also a subjective thing. Part of DSLR ownership is learning how your camera exposes, when you'll like the results, when you won't, and how to override the default exposure. If you just want to point and shoot and not think about exposure, a DSLR is not the right camera, IMHO. But based on what you've said about your background, I don't think that's you.
Thanks for the info, well stated
02-02-2009, 08:50 AM   #75
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Does anyone have experience with Digitals Future?

They have a K200D kit, supposedly brand new, for under $500. I had found a similar deal on Amazon. I feel a little more comfortable ordering from a business on that site, as you have Amazon's guarantee. But I went back to check and the company that was offering the camera on Amazon is no longer selling it.
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