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01-28-2009, 07:41 PM   #1
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another shake reduction post....

Hi All,

I've been testing the shake reduction on my K20d and honestly do not notice any significant difference when it is on or off. (kit lens, 55mm) I wait until the shake reduction icon appears in the viewfinder before releasing the shutter, and know it's working because I can hear it while the shutter is open but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I tested at a variety of slow shutter speeds, up to 3 seconds. Sometimes it even appeared that the image was blurrier with shake reduction enabled!

Has anybody else noticed similar ineffective results? Or am I doing something wrong or expecting too much?

I was testing this is because I was wondering if there are ever any situations where shake reduction would NOT be a preferred setting. When would you rather shoot without shake reduction enabled?

01-28-2009, 08:07 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by AK_shooter22 Quote
I tested at a variety of slow shutter speeds, up to 3 seconds. Sometimes it even appeared that the image was blurrier with shake reduction enabled!

Has anybody else noticed similar ineffective results? Or am I doing something wrong or expecting too much?
If your looking for SR to compensate for 3 seconds (or close to that) I think your expecting WAY too much. The limit depends on the person.

Pentax marketing says that SR will give you between 2.5 and 4 stops with SR on. So if I get my math right if you have a 20mm lens the slowest shutter speed you should handhold is 1/30th of a second (because of the crop factor). If you take the extreme and say you can get 4 stops better I think that would equate to 1/2 second shutter speed hand held. Of course wider lenses should let you descrease the shutter speed but there is probably some theoretical limit (and I think 2-3 seconds would be past that limit)

Just realized you mentioned your kit lens at 55mm. So with it at 55mm lets say you don't even worry about the crop factor and say 1/60th is the slowest handheld you should use.. with 4 stops that would mean with SR you could do 1/4 second.

Someone let me know if I got that correct


John

Last edited by palmor; 01-28-2009 at 08:13 PM.
01-28-2009, 08:29 PM   #3
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John, I second your calculations.

AK_shooter22, if you ahve a steady hand you do not need SR and won't see a difference. It's us old folk who need it!
01-28-2009, 08:33 PM   #4
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I believe that the 4 stops reported by Pentax is more like 2.5 to 3 in real life (with long lenses, and the advantage decreases the shorter the focal length.) It helps a lot, but do not expect miracles... Happy shooting!

01-28-2009, 11:35 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghost Quote
I believe that the 4 stops reported by Pentax is more like 2.5 to 3 in real life (with long lenses, and the advantage decreases the shorter the focal length.) It helps a lot, but do not expect miracles... Happy shooting!
Hmm...I thought the 4 "steps" in the manual referred to half-stops. So I still try not to shoot slower than 1/15 without a tripod.
01-28-2009, 11:38 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by AK_shooter22 Quote
Hi All,

I've been testing the shake reduction on my K20d and honestly do not notice any significant difference when it is on or off. (kit lens, 55mm) I wait until the shake reduction icon appears in the viewfinder before releasing the shutter, and know it's working because I can hear it while the shutter is open but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I tested at a variety of slow shutter speeds, up to 3 seconds. Sometimes it even appeared that the image was blurrier with shake reduction enabled!

Has anybody else noticed similar ineffective results? Or am I doing something wrong or expecting too much?

I was testing this is because I was wondering if there are ever any situations where shake reduction would NOT be a preferred setting. When would you rather shoot without shake reduction enabled?
With SR, you may get sharper shots by 1/8, 1/15, instead of 1/30. I have image stabilization (in the lens) in my Canon camcorder: follow the link in my sig and see how it fails to cure my shaky hand.
01-29-2009, 09:12 AM   #7
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Just another way of putting what others have said:

At 55mm, you might should be able to notice the effect, but not by trying 3 second exposures. Try exposures of, say, 1/15" (a 2.5 stop improvement over the 1/90" or so that would be the standard 1 (focal length * 1.5) rule suggests), and take many 10 shots with and 10 shots without SR. Then see how many are acceptably sharp. My guess is you *will* have better luck with SR on. But it is just a game of percentages - it's no guarantee of anything.

It's easier to see the effect with lenses longer then 55mm, also.

Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 01-29-2009 at 01:18 PM.
01-29-2009, 09:43 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
If your looking for SR to compensate for 3 seconds (or close to that) I think your expecting WAY too much. The limit depends on the person.

Pentax marketing says that SR will give you between 2.5 and 4 stops with SR on. So if I get my math right if you have a 20mm lens the slowest shutter speed you should handhold is 1/30th of a second (because of the crop factor). If you take the extreme and say you can get 4 stops better I think that would equate to 1/2 second shutter speed hand held. Of course wider lenses should let you descrease the shutter speed but there is probably some theoretical limit (and I think 2-3 seconds would be past that limit)

Just realized you mentioned your kit lens at 55mm. So with it at 55mm lets say you don't even worry about the crop factor and say 1/60th is the slowest handheld you should use.. with 4 stops that would mean with SR you could do 1/4 second.

Someone let me know if I got that correct


John
the 4 stops upper limit is definitely a wild marketing fantasy. When I just got my K10D I was experimenting with SR comparing it to istD. With wide angle lenses I was able to gain 1.5 to maybe 2 stops. For long telelenses I didn't see a difference at all.
I do have steady hands, I can get a sharp shot with 35mm lens using 1/20 speed consistently without SR.


Last edited by awo425; 01-29-2009 at 10:19 AM.
01-29-2009, 10:04 AM   #9
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I don't think it's marketing fantasy. With wide shots, I've gotten plenty of shots that are acceptably sharp at 1/2 s, 1/4 s, heck I've even gotten a couple that were over 1 s. It works, but depends on technique (I guess). And this is coming from a highly caffeinated 49 year old.
01-29-2009, 04:59 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by awo425 Quote
....When I just got my K10D I was experimenting with SR comparing it to istD. With wide angle lenses I was able to gain 1.5 to maybe 2 stops. For long telelenses I didn't see a difference at all.
.....
You may have saved me a bit of cash!

With my K100D I get about 1.5 stop with SR vs no SR. I'd thought that I'd do better with a K200D. Not true? I thought K100D was the weak sister when it comes to SR.

What are other's SR experiences on moving up from K100D?

Dave
01-29-2009, 11:02 PM   #11
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There may be a slight improvement, but it's hard to say - it's pretty difficult to measure this exactly. Anyhow, whatever minor improvement there might be, I would't upgrade for that reason alone.
01-29-2009, 11:15 PM   #12
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AK shooter22:

SR reduction really needs formal testing to definitively show its worth to a lot of people. The testing need not be complicated to show just what shake reduction does. You can see examples of what I am talking about all over the web, but here is the test which DPreview used to formally evaluate the K20 for its review: Pentax K20D Review: 16. Features: Digital Photography Review

You could adapt the methodology used here to prove to yourself just how awesome the feature of SR actually is--best of luck.
01-29-2009, 11:34 PM   #13
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I too find SR will save if lucky, only 2 stops.

Adding to that, a heavier camera could save 1/2 stop, a monopod could add 1/2 stop, continous shooting 3 frames aim for middle frame will save 1/2 stop.

The most I can is a 1 sec exposure at 20mm sharp handheld, combining all mentioned.

hm....as for 3 seconds...that's future technology.....maybe a camera that does 10fps and automated image stacking....
01-29-2009, 11:52 PM   #14
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SR is "shake reduction", not freeze framing. I am sure neither in body SR nor lens based SR will get you much in a 3 second, held held shutter.

Jason
01-30-2009, 08:10 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Luciferase Quote
I.... a monopod could add 1/2 stop...
a monopod can add much more than 1/2 stop

this is with a 43mm @ 1/6th of a second, SR off

i am posting a full sized image, you one can pixel peep, you can see the stitching in her hood and sweater logo

http://fork.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p461600078.jpg

monopods are very powerful tools, dont underestimate them.
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