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01-29-2009, 08:16 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Sure, you might shake the camera a bit on the second press, but that's better than having your hand on the camera for the duration of the exposure. And you can always use the put-something-in-front-of-the-lens and hit the button the first time, leave it open for the exposure time, put it back in front of the lens, and then hit the button to end the exposure. That way no light enters the camera while you're touching the buttons and possibly shaking it, which means no blur. Might add a second or two to the exposure.

Not all of us want to deal with remotes just for the ability to do a time exposure. Some old manual film cameras did it just great. Is it so hard to ask for a couple lines of code to enable the same thing?
How many film SLR's had built in intervalometers???? Anyways your right, asking for a few lines of code really isn't a big deal... it's either an oversight or considered unimportant enough to waste the peoplepower. not to mention digital cameras (non astro and cooled to whatever) pretty much cannot beat film for quality in long exposures (arguable of course) nor to mention the pain of a 30min "dark frame" that, on the k20, cannot be shut off..... Of course if the batteries puke out before it's finished and you lose the image, well another thing to complain about......
I'm all for Pentax "throwing in the kitchen sink" as much as the next person. It's just as workarounds go, it's a lot easier then swapping out a focus screen or other fun challenges of digital......

01-30-2009, 06:56 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote
I don't know why all DSLR manufacturers do this but nevertheless it is a consistent issue.

For photographers wanting to shoot exposures longer than 30 seconds, in order to do so you must either

A. Hold the shutter button manually on a tripod increasing the risk for blur due to shake

B. Use a cable remote in a locked down button mode for as long as you'd like to expose your image

My question is: Why don't manufactures give you a choice in the features to set up your shutter release on a 2 second timer that requires one press to engage the 2 second timer, and another press later when your exposure time has expired thus closing the shutter and completing your exposure?

This way, you could use a wireless remote to engage your 2 second timer (or 3 second as it is with the remote) and never have to touch your camera. Or if you do press the shutter at the end of the exposure cycle without a remote, chances are that little bit of vibration will not harm the image sharpness.

Probably been brought up before but either I have missed a setting on the K20D or it is just like every other DSLR on the market in this regard. I have used another camera that had this feature along with a timer on the lcd that showed you just how long your exposure ran (for up to 3 minutes).

So I'd like to see:

1. A feature enabled that allows the photographer to choose either hold the shutter down during the exposure cycle, or to allow a 2 touch operation allowing one press to start the exposure and another to finish the exposure, for as long as the photographer needs.

2. For an option to have either the top or rear LCD be able to show the total amount of time of the exposure live, or even both simultaneously.

3. The wireless remote to have an option to lock the mirror up for as long as you wish with either a two press operation or a sliding button that locks manually down until you wish to slide it back to release it.

How hard and how much cost can this possibly be?

I am aware that stop watch and a cable release can do what I wish. My thought is that in this highly technical era we are living in, we shouldn't have to rely on either if we choose not too.

Cable releases will still sell because there is an advantage to freeing your body away from the camera during release of exposure, especially during portrait routines in studio work where you need to be unintimidating etc.

I am sure this has been brought up before but it is high time manufactures do something about it. I cannot think of one good reason why not. And I really hope I haven't missed something in the manual or in the custom functions setting on the K20D if I have, obviously disregard my rant.

Thanks for listening!

Carl
except for a very old kodak leaf shutter which had not only Bulb (which really was an air bulb connection to hold the shutter open) and a T setting that functioned as you describe, one activation to open one to close, I have never seen any SLR with this function, going back to my KX. I still have a cable release with a thumb screw

The real issue with DSLRs I think is battery power. Long exposures use a ton of it, and in reality, I still think a film exposure is probably much better in terms of noise etc, when dealing with deliberately long exposures, except you then have to really consider the differential reciprocity failure of the three colors.
01-30-2009, 07:04 AM   #18
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Another consideration is heat.
Long exposures in asrtophotography are the norm. I've heard of every make of digital having had the sensor ruined due to overheating.
Also noise becomes a problem after 3-5 minutes. So we shoot many shorter exposures and stack with software to get the final image. This also allows for easier darks, and flats to add to the image stack.
01-30-2009, 09:56 AM   #19
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What software is used for multi-exposure stacking? Photoshop? Also what kind of timers/software do people usually use to take multiple 30sec exposures? I think I've seen quite a few examples of this type of photography in PPG and I have always wondered how such photos were taken.

01-30-2009, 10:23 AM   #20
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It can be done with Photoshop, Registax, and others.
I set my camera to manual, 30 sec, continuous shooting, and I use my locking remote cord.
The camera takes a thirty second exposure non stop as long as the button is locked down.
01-30-2009, 12:47 PM   #21
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This is one of many reasons I wish pentax would just open source their firmware. Anything doable in firmware would be fixable without any expenditure of resources on their behalf. Also, anyone in the open source movement would buy pentax without question, and it would defiantly fulfill their niche role
01-30-2009, 04:25 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
How many film SLR's had built in intervalometers???? Anyways your right, asking for a few lines of code really isn't a big deal... it's either an oversight or considered unimportant enough to waste the peoplepower. not to mention digital cameras (non astro and cooled to whatever) pretty much cannot beat film for quality in long exposures (arguable of course) nor to mention the pain of a 30min "dark frame" that, on the k20, cannot be shut off..... Of course if the batteries puke out before it's finished and you lose the image, well another thing to complain about......
I'm all for Pentax "throwing in the kitchen sink" as much as the next person. It's just as workarounds go, it's a lot easier then swapping out a focus screen or other fun challenges of digital......
I meant the "T" (two-press long exposure) mode, not the intervalometer. I must admit I've never heard of an intervalometer in a film SLR.

I'm all for the open-source idea as well. I mean, if Canon offered a waterproof compact, I would be all over it with that CHDK capability. Talk about intervalometers. No one's likely to take the time to back-engineer the pentax firmware like they did for the canon powershots, so it'd be great if pentax would just open it up for us.
01-30-2009, 04:35 PM   #23
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I've taken long exposures (up to 18 minutes) with my K200D using the wired remote (CS-205) and up to 10 minutes using a wireless remote.

Other than having to wait an equal amount of time for the black frame the only issue was heat - I could see some red coloration along the top of the image. Not a lot, but definately visable.

I think long exposures is one area where film wins - hands down. I used to take exposures as long as 3 hours with Fujichrome and my good ol' KM. I'm not sure (and I don't want to try) but I suspect that a 3 hour exposure with one of todays digital cameras would fry the sensor.

01-30-2009, 07:28 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote
I have used the K20 for long exposures and have been very pleased. I typically use ISO 100 for these exposures. I find the long exposure NR in camera to be well designed. Essentially the camera taking a second black frame exposure to use as a mirror to remove only the noise and not crush detail. Initially I turned it off as I prefer to do NR myself, yet the camera does such a good job that I let it do it's job.

Carl
There are only 2 settings for Slow Shutter Speed Noise Reduction on the K20D - Auto and On. There is no provision to switch it off.

However if you're talking about High ISO Noise Reduction, then there are 4 settings: Off, Weakest, Weak, Strong.
02-03-2009, 12:48 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildlifephotog Quote
Another consideration is heat.
Long exposures in asrtophotography are the norm. I've heard of every make of digital having had the sensor ruined due to overheating.
Also noise becomes a problem after 3-5 minutes. So we shoot many shorter exposures and stack with software to get the final image. This also allows for easier darks, and flats to add to the image stack.
Ah, another astrophotographer! I also find 2-4 minutes is about maximum for my modified K110D at a suburban location. This was also the limit for my K1000 because of film's reciprocity failure. Perhaps at a dark location in the winter I could go longer.

I use in camera noise reduction in warm weather since the heat noise buildup will overcome nebulas after a few frames. The NR works better than separate dark frames for me. In the winter I turn off NR for greater throughput and take 10 dark frames plus 10 flats at the end of the evening. I use DSLR-Focus (free/donation) for timing and Images Plus (not free) to stack and process.

If I'm away from a computer I use a homemade timer or just use continuous mode if it is cold enough.
02-03-2009, 06:18 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
I meant the "T" (two-press long exposure) mode, not the intervalometer. I must admit I've never heard of an intervalometer in a film SLR.
Nikon definitely had a intervalometer back for their F series cameras. Canon might have too. I have a Samsung P&S (film) that has one built in, but never had a reason to use it.

Nige.
02-04-2009, 06:02 PM   #27
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How long before overheating is an issue? I tried the Orion Nebula the other night, being aware that without a clock drive I had to take short exposures, but nothing really showed up. I have a freeware program (I think it is) called DeepSkyStacker, but it does have to have something to work with. I doubt that they've got refrigeration units that would work with our Pentaces.
02-04-2009, 06:43 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by HGMonaro Quote
Nikon definitely had a intervalometer back for their F series cameras. Canon might have too. I have a Samsung P&S (film) that has one built in, but never had a reason to use it.

Nige.
Care to tell me which film "F"?
Nikon F Motor Batteries and Accessories Part I
NC-2 Intervalometer This instrument enables the motor-equipped Nikon F to take pictures automatically at predetermined intervals from '/: second to more than 16 minutes. Once started it requires no attention until the last exposure has been made. Time-lapse photography, as this technique is called, finds application in virtually every field of research and development. It is one of many areas where the F250 motor drive with its tremendous film capacity provides ready-made capabilities far beyond the scope of any other 35mm system.

The Nikon Intervalometer uses a 30-volt battery housed inside the unit. Where the motor drive is equipped with Standard Battery Pack, the Intervalometer is used with the Relay Box accessory. In the case of the Cordless Battery Pack, the Intervalometer is connected directly.


There is an intervalometer in the f6.
http://www.become.com/allreviews.action?q=&bskuid=0&topn=10&reviewstart=1

Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-04-2009 at 06:49 PM.
02-05-2009, 05:49 AM   #29
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Sodbuster,
What exposure settings were you using? I've taken shots of M42 many times with my digital.

What lens or scope are you using?
05-25-2009, 06:54 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rush2112 Quote

My question is: Why don't manufactures give you a choice in the features to set up your shutter release on a 2 second timer that requires one press to engage the 2 second timer, and another press later when your exposure time has expired thus closing the shutter and completing your exposure?

This way, you could use a wireless remote to engage your 2 second timer (or 3 second as it is with the remote) and never have to touch your camera. Or if you do press the shutter at the end of the exposure cycle without a remote, chances are that little bit of vibration will not harm the image sharpness.
Hey there, digging up an old thread, but I was talking to Dan Savoie from Pentax Canada on the weekend at the Photo Show here in Toronto. He had the same question for Pentax Japan, and wrote them an email a while back asking for this feature to be implemented in the next camera.

The end result is that the K-7 now allows you to do a two press operation for long exposures with the wireless remote. One to start, and another to close the shutter.

He also showed me a 1 hr 8 minute exposure he did with the K10 on ISO 200. Very low noise, and a wonderful result--blew away his friend who was shooting Canon! (I guess with a K20 though, you'd have to wait an hour and eight minutes to see it, so that's probably why he went with the K10)

Just wanted to let you know!
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