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06-25-2009, 11:48 PM   #31
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Well, following some thoughts about this thread, I now am sure that DNG is the best choice for the k20 (flip-flop strategy!)...

- There is simply no edges to recover (seems to me there was more hidden pixels on the k10)...
- The embedded profile is better than Adobe Standard...
- Size is not really a problem since I bought two 8Go SD cards (don't put all your eggs in the same basket!)...

Only thing that bothers me is that I still have to convert these DNGs to compressed DNGs...

Photog : I wasn't sure about the K10's PEF... Thanks for pointing that...

06-26-2009, 01:42 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
......I was able to find a plug in that thumbnails DNG files in Windows, I haven't found one that does the same thing for PEF files.
.....
Care to share ?
06-26-2009, 04:05 PM   #33
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You could try (for XP/Vista):

File extension dng support - CODEC for Windows Vista - Windows Imaging Component CODEC for Adobe Digital Negative files

Or possibly even better:

ArcSoft RAW Thumbnail Viewer

There is also a registry hack floating about - including on this forum.

Last edited by rawr; 06-26-2009 at 04:18 PM.
06-26-2009, 07:34 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by WheresWaldo Quote
... no printer in the world, that includes personal printers, Photolab printers or offset printers can print a raw file directly.
...
I agree with your remarks and I also use LR2 now in 2.4. However in a sense LR2 does allow you to print a PEF or DNG without crfeating an intermediate pixel based file.
I have made prints that are as good as any made from CS4 directly form original PEF / DNG. Now doubt htere is some behind the scenes rendering the image for printing but I have made a pring without outputting a JPG / TIFF / PSD file.
However you and Jim Royal are talking excellent sense.
Ron McDermot

06-28-2009, 06:59 AM   #35
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The K-7 saves compressed DNG files. May save some work for some...
06-28-2009, 09:00 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by photog Quote
I agree with your remarks and I also use LR2 now in 2.4. However in a sense LR2 does allow you to print a PEF or DNG without crfeating an intermediate pixel based file.
Well, it creates the file; it just doesn't save it. Indeed, most RAW processing programs can do the same. But I think the point was that printers can't work directly from the RAW file - they require a program that can create the temporary "JPEG" for them.
06-28-2009, 10:11 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ve2vfd Quote
The K20d offers both RAW formats...

Any preferences for one or the other? Any advantages to using DNG?

Thanks!

Pat
I don't have a choice! Samsung only uses Adobe DNG RAW.
06-28-2009, 11:53 PM   #38
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I've used DNG from day one, because if I recall correctly, the Apple OS would only handle the files in that format

06-29-2009, 12:24 AM   #39
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Just an FYI, I believe the K-7 will have the ability to create compressed DNGs within camera.
06-29-2009, 02:30 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
You could try (for XP/Vista):

File extension dng support - CODEC for Windows Vista - Windows Imaging Component CODEC for Adobe Digital Negative files

Or possibly even better:

ArcSoft RAW Thumbnail Viewer

There is also a registry hack floating about - including on this forum.
Thanks

(10 characters)
07-22-2009, 12:22 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by tenpointnine Quote
I've used DNG from day one, because if I recall correctly, the Apple OS would only handle the files in that format
Hate to resurrect a dead thread, but just wanted to point out that Apple periodically releases Digital Camera RAW Compatibility Updates to add native OS support for various camera's RAW files.

I shoot PEF for card space reasons (4GB Extreme IIIs for peformance, 4GB to avoid too many eggs in one basket); Lightroom converts to compressed DNG upon import.
07-22-2009, 08:27 PM   #42
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I just read every post in this thread as I'm deciding what to use with my brand new K-7. With my K20D (which I'll be selling soon), I shot in PEF—trading a little speed (PEFs tax the camera a bit more because the K20D compresses them) for the advantage of getting more shots on my 8GIG cards.

I'm curious: Now that we know that DNGs are also compressed "on-board" the K-7, is there ANY difference between PEF and DNGs? (I'm not familiar with the "recovered pixels" issue at all, so feel free to enlighten me.)

Since both are compressed on-camera, it seems that the "size" and the "speed" equation has been balanced out on both sides. Is that right?

-J

P.S. I'm using a Mac Pro with LR2.4, if that matters.
07-22-2009, 11:45 PM   #43
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K10 and k20 were recording slightly different sets of information between PEF and DNGs... Not in the picture itself, of course, but in the EXIF part... The DNG has an Embedded color profile that can be used by DNG-reading software to reproduce a "true" Pentax colour rendition...

On my K20, I find the Embedded colour profile really too green for my taste, but for some pics, it really was better...

Now, for the RecoverEdges utility : in fact, RAW files embed slightly more pixels than what they show... These pixels are on the edges of the pic, and are usually used in the demosaicing process to guarantee a good colour rendition of the border pixels (those being displayed).
On the K10, there was maybe 1% hidden pixels on each dimension (~35 hor. * ~25 vert.), so it amounted to approx. 150kPixels on the whole image, a 1.5% increase in the K10's pixel count...
Not so bad for a free step...

But on the k20, the amount of hidden pixels is smaller (~75kP), with a bigger pixel count... So there is not so much to recover after all. Moreover, the DNG file contains the whole sensor, not just the "exposed" part. So you end up with all the black pixels (pixels that are masked and thus only record the electrical noise).

In my view, having the black pixels in the file could be really useful one day, if the softwares start using them to lessen the noise...

All this only concerns K10 and K20 bodies, of course... But these points are the one to check on the K7 (and I think it will behave just like the k20 here).
07-23-2009, 12:32 AM   #44
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RecoverEdges? Interesting...

I'd like to know more.
Ron McDermott
07-23-2009, 01:06 AM   #45
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RecoverEdges is a little application written by one of the "fathers" of DNG, from Adobe...
You can find it easily on the web...

It modify some entries in the DNG file to declare those hidden pixels as to be shown...

I'll create a new thread to show some tests I've done with how to use these black pixels...
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