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03-29-2007, 04:56 PM   #1
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K10D, Shake Reduction & Tripod

I've seen it mentioned here before but can't find the old posts.

Can someone enlighten me as to why it is recommended to turn shake reduction off when using a tripod? The reason is I did a staff photo for my work and was mortified to see the result was somewhat fuzzier than the same photo taken with an istDS 6MP a year ago. Note: I used the same lens sigma 18-125 for both shoots and the old photo was much more "in focus"

I had only remembered that shake reduction was on once I looked at the shot afterward on the computer and realised that i had forgot to turn it off - Why is it that we do this???

Thanks.

03-29-2007, 05:50 PM   #2
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Switch79

When your camera is stable i.e. ,on a tripod, there is no need for shake reduction. The servos on the SR constantly look for movement in the camera. Therefore even when the camera is steady the servos are working. Thus causing some movement in the camera itself. Anything above 1/60th should not,IMO, have the shake reduction on. Just my 2 cents. Keep the change.

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03-29-2007, 05:51 PM   #3
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Before the Shake Reduction mechanism can work, it has to find camera shake. When you mount to tripod you eliminate the camera shake. The Reduction feature however, still looks for this shake by oscilating slightly; thus, causing it's own version of something like Camera Shake Reduction Shake ...
03-29-2007, 06:37 PM   #4
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Not to mention power consumption. Very small, but nonzero.

03-29-2007, 06:55 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by TedP Quote
When your camera is stable i.e. ,on a tripod, there is no need for shake reduction. The servos on the SR constantly look for movement in the camera. Therefore even when the camera is steady the servos are working. Thus causing some movement in the camera itself. Anything above 1/60th should not,IMO, have the shake reduction on.
TedP,

Are you saying that we should turn SR off ALWAYS if the shutter speed is faster than 1/60s? Even if the camera is hand held?

Is it only the Pentax SR system that works this way? The optical image stabilization built into my old Canon PowerShot S3 IS was very good. I don't recall ever being advised to turn it off. Perhaps it worked very differently?

Will
03-29-2007, 07:27 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
TedP,

Are you saying that we should turn SR off ALWAYS if the shutter speed is faster than 1/60s? Even if the camera is hand held?

Is it only the Pentax SR system that works this way? The optical image stabilization built into my old Canon PowerShot S3 IS was very good. I don't recall ever being advised to turn it off. Perhaps it worked very differently?

Will

Can't speak for Canon, but I can't see turning the SR off for hand held. What about a 300mm at 1/125th?

The K100D does turn off the SR in some modes automatically - using either timer method, remote control release, bulb and wireless with external flash.
03-29-2007, 08:47 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by TedP Quote
Anything above 1/60th should not,IMO, have the shake reduction on.
I would disagree with the opinion above. I would ONLY consider turning it off when using tripod. SR should be on for all handheld shot.

To be honest, I have not observed any ill effect by SR on my tripod shots. Turning it off is a safeguard and a good habit, as you don't need SR anyways. But I always forgot to turn it back on afterwards for my first handheld shots, so I just did not bother and let it be on all the times.
03-29-2007, 09:33 PM   #8
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yeah, I always leave it on. When my camera is on a tripod I use the 2 second timer for mirror lockup, which automatically disables SR. so as soon as I am back to normal shooting, my SR is already on.

03-29-2007, 11:24 PM   #9
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But there got to be a shutter speed that makes SR pointless. Just think about it, if shutter clicks very fast, shake reduction has nothing to reduce, because your hand cant shake camera faster than shutter works.

example:

1. Camera shakes fom point A to B. At long exposure SR has to stabilize sensor.

2. Camera shakes from point A to B. At short exposure time sensor captures light in a time that is close to zero and in this time period the moving is also close to zero. And I dont think, that in this short time SR can manage to improve something.

I hope You understand my terrible english and my scheme

Last edited by skaktuss; 08-20-2007 at 10:52 PM.
03-30-2007, 12:46 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
But there got to be a shutter speed that makes SR pointless.
That's true - but the most important point is that SR would NOT cause any harm in high shutter speed either! So why bother switching it off? You can't save any battery in doing so either (because of the floating CCD design).
03-30-2007, 06:30 AM   #11
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WMBP

Old school was basically anything 1/60th or faster at hand held you wre ok.Naturally keeping the camera as stable as possible. But if your shooting from a tripod,turn it off. Using telephoto lense turn it on,because shake is more noticable. if your shooting with a delay,your basically shooting from a stable base,ie, tripod turn it off . My hands shake continually,so I usually turn it off for high speed shooting.I turn it on when I get to the lower speeds but that depends on how bad my hands are shaking at that given time. But the beauty of Pentax is that all lenses have SR. by the replies it's six of one half dozen for the other.
Happy Shooting

TedP
04-16-2007, 04:35 AM   #12
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Hullo everybody! I'm new in town. One of the reasons I'd say many people - like me - may consider a shift to Pentax (from say Canon/Nikon) would be the K10D's SR. But I see very little discussion on this subject of SR efficiency in hand held shooting vis-a-vis Canon's IS or Nikon's VR lenses - say 300mm IS or equivalent; or equually at the othe rend - macro range with a 100mm lens, hand held. May I request people with experience of both to shed light on this please? Thank you.
04-16-2007, 05:17 AM   #13
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Just remember to turn SR off when panning. My biggest mistake. I keep forgetting.
04-16-2007, 06:52 AM   #14
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The old 35mm rule of thumb was to use the inverse of the focal length as your safest hand-holdable speed. With the smaller APS-C sensor, the shake reduction allows that rule to stay in force. In fact, you can get an extra stop or two out of it.

But on a tripod, it's pointless.
04-16-2007, 07:31 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Khukri Quote
Hullo everybody! I'm new in town. One of the reasons I'd say many people - like me - may consider a shift to Pentax (from say Canon/Nikon) would be the K10D's SR. But I see very little discussion on this subject of SR efficiency in hand held shooting vis-a-vis Canon's IS or Nikon's VR lenses - say 300mm IS or equivalent; or equually at the othe rend - macro range with a 100mm lens, hand held. May I request people with experience of both to shed light on this please? Thank you.

Shake reduction in the Pentax K10D and K100D works very well. It's quite easy to do a few quick tests taking shots with SR on and SR off and see the difference.

I have a lot of experience with one implementation of optical image stabilization in Canon cameras - the Powershot S-series, which I owned for years. IS works well in those cameras and it is my experience with those cameras that lead me to buy a Pentax DSLR rather than a Canon or Nikon.

For what it's worth, my experience is that SR in the Pentax K10D and the K100D is as good as the IS I enjoyed in the Canon Powershot S-series cameras. Now, I've never heard anybody claim that in-camera SR on the Pentax cameras (or the other cameras that have in-camera SR) works BETTER than in-the-lens image stabilization. The advantage of in-camera SR is obvious: it saves you lots of money on lenses, because you get SR automatically with every lens you use, including lenses made decades ago.

On the other hand, I have read claims that the in-the-lens image stabilization used by Canon and Nikon is superior to in-the-camera SR. I've heard the claim - but I've never seen any proof, or even any tests, and I've been on the lookout for them. Seems to me that the burden of proof here lies with the Canon/Nikon camp.

I think there is also a fairly obvious physical limit to how good shake reduction or image stabilization of any kind can be. Shake reduction is designed to reduce the effects of very small movements in the camera body - movements so small that the camera sensor can safely assume they are not deliberate. In other words, there's a limit to how good SR can be, and beyond that, nobody's technology can be any better. SR isn't going to help much if you're trying to take a photography while riding a horse! Pentax's SR seems to me to be as good as that limit. I'm open to the possibility that there is a technical advantage to in-the-lens image stabilization - but I am sure it would be a slight advantage. I don't see how Canon's or Nikon's technologies could be any better than that outside limit allows.

My GUESS is this: Canon and/or Nikon have done these tests. They have found that in-the-lens stabilization is indeed better than in-body shake reduction - but only very slightly. They don't tout the results of their tests precisely because it would be a pyrrhic victory: It's better for them to be able to claim superiority without having to prove it, because proving it would require that they reveal how trivial the difference is. And at that point, a lot more people might wake up and realize that paying for IS in the lens over and over and over again is, well, kind of dumb.

Will

P.S. (added later) Ignore what I said above and see instead nosnoop's excellent and informative reply, which follows this message.

Last edited by WMBP; 04-16-2007 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Added p.s.
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