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02-16-2009, 01:12 AM   #31
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Pentaxmz...Canon and Nikon have their own huge faults as well, you have to remember. If you're shooting with the D40 or D60, you won't have AF unless you pay for a very expensive lens, and if you're shooting Canon, it's rare to get a very sharp photo without one of their "prized" L lenses...and I know this from personal experience. Every brand has it's own faults (black spots, anyone?), so singling out Pentax for one fault doesn't work.

02-16-2009, 05:38 AM   #32
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Be fair. On the lower end Nikons, it's not that you need expensive lenses to get AF, just newer ones.
02-16-2009, 02:19 PM   #33
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i'm just going to hijack this thread a bit.....

but it should be _fine_ for people to be negative about something after they've seemingly used it for around a year.... we see a lot of people who praise their pentax camera: "i love it! it does this this and this" and we all just respond "great! you'll have fun".... but when someone posts "i dont like it cause it behaves like this this and this" we eventually jump on and say "but, you're a jerk" ..... it doesnt seem right now does it?

(slightly exaggerated but im trying to encompass everything ive seen so far on the forums)
02-16-2009, 02:50 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clem Nichols Quote
I've owned a K-10D for a couple of years, and have been quite satisfied with it for the most part. Nevertheless, I find myself wanting something with better high ISO performance and faster auto-focusing, particularly in the AF-C mode. Unlike a lot of others I'm not lusting for a full frame model. Having said that, what I can't understand is the number of people rushing out to buy a K-20 less than three weeks before this year's PMA convention. What if Pentax announces a K30 or a full-frame model, as unlikely as that would seem? It would be like buying a 2008 automobile just before the 2009 model was announced. It's easier to understand if someone has no camera at all, because the new model probably wouldn't be actually released for several months, but why would the owner of a K10 make such a move now? Even if they chose not to go for the newer model, you'd have to think that the price of the K20 would drop after the newer one was announced. What am I missing here?

CN
not always!
in the UK, after K20 came was announced (and it's RRP) demand for K10 rose rapidly, retailers rose prices but soon K10 were just sold out pretty much everwhere with nobody able order new bodies for quite a while...
BR

02-16-2009, 02:58 PM   #35
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I've never used a K20D, but I really love my K10D.

Not saying the K20D isn't good, but just giving positive feedback on the K10D.

It's a great camera.

-Isaac
02-16-2009, 05:39 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tuner571 Quote
Thanks for the advice, but the problems I have been reading about are black shots, lines in images, and the camera freezing up.
Check the "happy K20 users" thread.... with mass produced electronics there will always be "noise in the channel" but, IMHO, the K20 is a very good camera - superior to the K10 in most ways. (BTW, I consider the K10 to be a very good camera as well.) Dave
02-16-2009, 05:51 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Hello Cory,

Strictly in terms of additional (all important) pixels, more programmability and feature sets, higher ISO, the K20D is a 'better' camera.

But the K20 does have some problems such the vertical line issue. Too many people have reported this problem for it to be mere coincidence. I haven't been affected but I know one person (personally) and about another four through the forums.

The other issue (which affects me) is that the K20D CMOS sensor runs hotter than any other current DSLR. This means a lot of sensor noise, which is covered up by the K20D forcing a DFS (Dark Frame Subtraction), for any photo longer than 15 seconds (or *any* photo in BULB mode). Yes, every camera has it's issues but this is a huge glaring engineering mistake. This problem all but eliminates the K20D from long exposure work. Had I known this, I would not have purchased the K20D. Unfortunately, I purchased my K20D before this information was generally known.

You mentioned that 'money is no object'.... is there a particular reason why you are not looking at Canon or Nikon (the two leaders)?

The Pentax camera division of Hoya is losing money, they have cut R+D by an apparent 50% and some 8-10% of their workforce. The evidence of their problems are all spelled out in their latest financial report: http://www.hoya.co.jp/english/investor/2009_3Q_graph.pdf It especially bad, if you believe (as I do), that most reports exaggerate (or cover up) the real situation (SOX be damned!).

When compared to other manufactures (at least the top three), Pentax appears to be the only one that is failing in the camera business.

I am not saying that Pentax won't be around much longer... Hoya (the parent) has a lot of money, but it makes me wonder if it is worth it for Hoya to sink money into a division bleeding as it is. Cutting back on R+D is a sure sign that they might not think so... It's not like the Pentax products are already ahead of the game in terms of technology.

I will now get ready for a verbal lashing from the zealots of this group. Ouch.

But as Shakespeare once wrote, "Don't shoot the messenger!"
IMO, this appears to be no more than idle speculation passed off as brilliant financial insight. Have you bothered to check the financial statements of the rest of the manufacturers and/or interviewed the Hoya executive on their business plans? If not, then this can hardly be considered helpful or insightful information. Dave
02-16-2009, 08:28 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
i'm just going to hijack this thread a bit.....

but it should be _fine_ for people to be negative about something after they've seemingly used it for around a year.... we see a lot of people who praise their pentax camera: "i love it! it does this this and this" and we all just respond "great! you'll have fun".... but when someone posts "i dont like it cause it behaves like this this and this" we eventually jump on and say "but, you're a jerk" ..... it doesnt seem right now does it?

(slightly exaggerated but im trying to encompass everything ive seen so far on the forums)
Thanks for that. So, now I know I am not the only person to observe this phenomenon.

Is this indicative of some Pentax owners and exclusive of the Pentax forum, or is this phenomena observed in other camera forums as well?

02-17-2009, 12:01 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Thanks for that. So, now I know I am not the only person to observe this phenomenon.

Is this indicative of some Pentax owners and exclusive of the Pentax forum, or is this phenomena observed in other camera forums as well?
I'm sure it will be.

I have found in "most" cases (maybe not yours) that most "problems" are presented by persons wildly (with the same breath) extolling the virtues of another camera brand as being "nirvana".

Yet at the same time there are some extremely gifted & capable photogs as members on this forum who can counter argue 'their" problems with real world experience - yet this will be totally ignored by the complainant and thus this person will get labeled a "troll, jerk, flamer" or whatever and I feel justifiably so.

d
02-17-2009, 12:37 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
I'm sure it will be.

I have found in "most" cases (maybe not yours) that most "problems" are presented by persons wildly (with the same breath) extolling the virtues of another camera brand as being "nirvana".

Yet at the same time there are some extremely gifted & capable photogs as members on this forum who can counter argue 'their" problems with real world experience - yet this will be totally ignored by the complainant and thus this person will get labeled a "troll, jerk, flamer" or whatever and I feel justifiably so.

d
I hope that if we were all meeting in person, we would all treat each other with more respect.

I've been messaging since the days of Fidonet (or before that, BBS's and homebrew 300bps MODEMS) and I have always tried to conduct myself in the same manner as if I were meeting each of you in person. But that is my own standard.
02-17-2009, 02:55 AM   #41
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Word!

QuoteOriginally posted by IsaacSteiner Quote
I've never used a K20D, but I really love my K10D.

Not saying the K20D isn't good, but just giving positive feedback on the K10D.

It's a great camera.

-Isaac

I Agree 100%
I'm in the same boat.
02-17-2009, 12:15 PM   #42
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Tuner - I'll qualify my comments with the fact that I have never actually laid my eyes on a live in the flesh K20D (Pentax cameras just aren't in stock, to have and to hold in West Central Texas) but I love my K10D. I bought a factory refurb K10D (demo model that I don't think had ever been out of the box) with a one year warranty for $399. I can't imagine that there is a better bang for the buck on a comparable camera anywhere in the current DSLR market. If you can affoard a K20D then you could probably nicely pimp out a K10D for the same money.

My pet peeves are that MY K10D is slow to focus in low light, but my go to lens is a 24-60 f2.8 screw drive Sigma so I'm not exactly giving it the best opportunity to impress me. I also find that real world safe flash synch on my K10d is somewhere between 1/125 and 1/180 which is a real limitation for the shooting I do. I get black shutter lines at 1/180 occasionally even with the pop-up flash or accessory flash mounted directly on the hot shoe. In wireless, I can forget about 1/180. Again, I shoot Vivitar flashes, and cheap radio remotes right now so it's possible the Pentax flashes would do better, but I have had the pop up flash outrun the shutter, so maybe not.

I really don't know if the K20D has significantly improved those two issues, but if you can live with those limitations the K10D is just hard to beat for the money.
02-17-2009, 01:30 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tuner571 Quote
Hey everyone, I recently sold my K100D Super to upgrade to a higher end camera. I have researched everything there is to know about both cameras but I still am unsure on what to do. The primary reasons I want to upgrade is because I would like a brighter viewfinder, more megapixels, in body RAW editing, and the fact that both cameras are more comfortable to hold on to. Now after reading about all the problems with the K20D I am a little nervous about picking one up. Now money is no object because I can afford either one, but is the K20D worth it to take the risk? Anyway I just wanted to see what other people would do in my situation.

Thanks for any input,
Cory
I have both, and you can't go wrong with either. The K20D is a much better camera, but I am still surprised that as long as I shoot in daylight the K10 delivers top quality as well. If you are in darker environments, K20 is a lot better than K10. If you don't shoot in poor lighting, you will be happy with the K10, and you will save enough to buy a good lens as well. Why not an FA35 before they run out of stock now when they have stopped making them:-)
02-17-2009, 02:21 PM   #44
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The flash is just your camera. I've not had a single problem with any of 3 Vivitar 283's or either of the two Pentax flashes.
02-17-2009, 02:37 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle Quote
I also find that real world safe flash synch on my K10d is somewhere between 1/125 and 1/180 which is a real limitation for the shooting I do. I get black shutter lines at 1/180 occasionally even with the pop-up flash or accessory flash mounted directly on the hot shoe. In wireless, I can forget about 1/180. Again, I shoot Vivitar flashes, and cheap radio remotes
Ditto what jodokast said. No problems w/ my old K10D or current K20D doing 1/180 w/ Nikon speedlights oncam or w/ the "V2s" fleabay triggers. Find someone nearby w/ a K10D or K20D and you can isolate this down to your flashes vs. remotes vs. camera...
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