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02-16-2009, 11:16 PM   #31
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Not Exactly

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
No... I really did get some real information from Pentax. They really, truly planned to release a digital back for the MZ-S and I can prove it. I actually have a full color brochure somewhere in a box. I bet you'd be interested in a scan of this!
Not Exactly..

QuoteQuote:
I can't look for it now.... but I can assure you that the MZ-S was once toted as a 'future-proof' camera. But in the end, the digital back was dropped in favour of this: MR-52 and NEWS! - Pentax EI-3000 and unnamed digital SLR - exclusive pics!. You should also note how it looks nearly identical to the MZ-S... which should help back up my earlier claim.
The MR52e is not a digital back for MZ-S, it is just a DSLR based on the MZ-S body - two different cameras (which just share somethings common)

QuoteQuote:
Notice that a full-frame digital camera was on the design board as far back as 2001! Imagine where Pentax might be today, if they had actually built this camera?
They would have died already! Contax released their N Digital 6MP Full Frame DSLR at about the same time and asked for $6000, the N series (film or digital) never succeed and they died!

I think in 2003, Pentax was right to introduce the *ist D, an APS-C cropped DSLR. But anyway no so now, they should plan and implement a Full Frame DSLR not too late!

02-17-2009, 12:14 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Not Exactly..

The MR52e is not a digital back for MZ-S, it is just a DSLR based on the MZ-S body - two different cameras (which just share somethings common)
Of course... but I never stated otherwise.

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
They would have died already! Contax released their N Digital 6MP Full Frame DSLR at about the same time and asked for $6000, the N series (film or digital) never succeed and they died!
Contax is a terrible example; for many reasons which you are probably already aware of.

What about the successful Nikon D1 (sold for over $5000 in 2000) and the even more successful D100 (sold for about $2000 in the following year). One of the mistakes Pentax made was in trying to produce an economically priced full frame camera in 2000. I commend their efforts but they were 3 years late in finally bringing out a DSLR.
02-17-2009, 03:14 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
No... I really did get some real information from Pentax. They really, truly planned to release a digital back for the MZ-S and I can prove it. I actually have a full color brochure somewhere in a box. I bet you'd be interested in a scan of this!

I can't look for it now.... but I can assure you that the MZ-S was once toted as a 'future-proof' camera. But in the end, the digital back was dropped in favour of this: MR-52 and NEWS! - Pentax EI-3000 and unnamed digital SLR - exclusive pics!. You should also note how it looks nearly identical to the MZ-S... which should help back up my earlier claim.

Notice that a full-frame digital camera was on the design board as far back as 2001! Imagine where Pentax might be today, if they had actually built this camera?
Yes, the history of the MZ-D is widely acknowledged. I talked to Pentax representatives here in germany about that a lot. The had to drop the camera, because nobody would have shelled out the money for it, as the sensor was simply too expensive. It was the same FF sensor, that was used in the Contax DSLR - and you know what became of Contax...

At the time, I was disappointed, that Pentax went back to the design board and delayed their DSLRs for a long time - but I think now, this was a very sensible solution.

Ben
02-17-2009, 03:17 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Contax is a terrible example; for many reasons which you are probably already aware of.

What about the successful Nikon D1 (sold for over $5000 in 2000) and the even more successful D100 (sold for about $2000 in the following year). One of the mistakes Pentax made was in trying to produce an economically priced full frame camera in 2000. I commend their efforts but they were 3 years late in finally bringing out a DSLR.
Nikon and Canon had a good standing in the professional community, Pentax did not. There simply where no typical Pentax customers in 2001, that were prepared to pay 6000 USD for a camera from a manufacturer perceived to aim at the amateurs. And the Contax price is about the same, Pentax would have to charge for the MZ-D, probably even more, as the FF CCD alone (made by Philips, if I remember rightly) cost nearly as much at that time.

Ben

02-17-2009, 03:28 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
I mean no offence, and this is certainly not directed toward anyone in specific, but you would have to be an idiot to base your purchase decision on numbers from this website (especially when the differences are minimal).

What matters is how the camera works in real-world conditions. It is entirely appropriate to compare the Pentax to other brands, in terms of how it functions hot/cold weather, long exposures, sensor noise at low and high ISOs, weather sealing, shake reduction, etc. Each criterium holds a lessor or greater importance to everyone. Obviously, the perfect camera that excels in every one of the most important criteria (which grow with each generation of camera), but such a camera will probably never exist, at least, not in the under $2000 class.
I don't know, why this thread got so heated. But ofcourse you are fully entitled to vent your disappointment with Pentax and the products. But your needs are very much (as I wrote somewhere above) determined by a niche application, which is not the common useage, these cameras will have. I guess, that most Pentax users will simply never encounter the problems you experience or they won't care about it, because the DFS is not an important problem if you make a night shot once a year.

And for my kind of use, the Pentax DSLRs have some merrits, which make it for me the best choice in terms of image quality, versatility and value.And ofcourse there are extremely fine lenses available, new or on the used market.

If your application is such a special one, you should consider to buy a better suited tool for it.

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
However, getting back to the K20D problems, I find it disheartening that many members of this forum don't seem to be concerned or even care about those who are experiencing real problems with their Pentax cameras.

Is it just my perception that anyone who dares to speak up about flaws in Pentax products, will more than likely be chastised or belittled because they are in the 'unimportant' minority?
No, no. You will find loads of threads about real or perceived problems and usually these are dealt with in a honest and helpful manner. Obviously a forum like this is the place to report about problems and failures. You will find the same degree of problem reports in forums specialising on Canon or Nikon or whatever. I think, that just the way you "ground your axe" was perceived to be a bit on the unfair and rude side - though even this is not uncommon here. - Let's go back to peaceful and friendly conversation! And nobody wants to throw you out.

QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Pentax is aware of the Astrophotography niche market... and the consequences were another loss of customers to Canon.
I am a victim of this myself, being in astronomy for more than three decades. But I can understand, that a small manufacturer like Pentax cannot compete with Canon to fill every gap on the market. They would be ruined within a short time. I think, Canon produced the specialised astronomy modells simply to because they wrote the investment off as marketing expense...

Ben
02-17-2009, 03:55 AM   #36
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50D has nowhere near the sealing of any of the sealed Pentax cameras.
02-17-2009, 07:12 AM   #37
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Hmmm....
Basing an entire rant on non existent equipment that wasn't even released as vapourware.
One thing I've learned over the years is to base my purchase decisions on what is available now, not what someone twice removed says may be available in the future, and to make sure that what I buy is capable of doing what I want it to do, at least most of the time.
Pentax doesn't really owe anyone anything other than honouring their warranties.
Get over it and get on with your life.
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