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02-17-2009, 07:04 PM   #1
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Multiple exposure on K20D

I posted this already at dpreview.com in the Pentax SLR forum, but I'm still lost... So I apologize if some have already seen this question..

Additonally, let me clarify that I am not talking about exposure bracketing (at least I don't think I am...)...

On to the question...

First let me start with my obviously incorrect understanding of this function...

I thought that by setting the camera to multiple exposure - in the menu - (say 5) it would take 5 pictures of some varied exposure (+/-) and then combine to one image... automatically.... I expected I would need to hold down the shutter until it took 5 exposures....

What happened in reality is the following.... I set the camera to multipleexposures (5) - in the menu - , held down the shutter, and it took one photo.... and and when I looked at the menu again, it had reset the menu setting to multiple exposures OFF ...

I tried this in RAW, jpeg, and with the auto EV both on and off (another setting in the multiple exposure menu) ... In all cases it just seemed take one photo... And I can't really tell if it is in reality multiple combined exposures...

Can someone please correct my misunderstanding of this function and tell me how to do it correctly? I heard this is another way to increase the dynamic range of a photo...

Thanks!

Ken

02-17-2009, 07:09 PM   #2
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Multi exposure means taking two or more photos on "top of each other". Think film, with a film camera you can disengage film winding and take more than one photo on one negative.

If you want several exposures for HDR you should use autobracketing, for example 5 shots from -2 EV to +2 EV compensation and then process them into one HDR photo in Photoshop. The camera cannot do this for you.

And use a tripod to get the exact same framing for each shot.
02-17-2009, 07:33 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ole Quote
Multi exposure means taking two or more photos on "top of each other". Think film, with a film camera you can disengage film winding and take more than one photo on one negative.

If you want several exposures for HDR you should use autobracketing, for example 5 shots from -2 EV to +2 EV compensation and then process them into one HDR photo in Photoshop. The camera cannot do this for you.

And use a tripod to get the exact same framing for each shot.
I'm not sure the op wants HDR (although it appears like so). But I concur with what you wrote.

There is a discussion about HDR here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/49946-enhanced-dynamic-range.html
02-17-2009, 07:40 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Javaslinger Quote
... I heard this is another way to increase the dynamic range of a photo...

Thanks!

Ken
Sorry if I misunderstood you in my first response.

You can extend dynamic range by approximately one stop by turning D-Range on in the ISO menu:
Fn - Right Arrow - Fn - OK

02-17-2009, 08:25 PM   #5
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In an earlier thread in the beginners forum I was asking about taking sunrise photo's and discussing my difficulties getting both a good sky and a good landscape.

The following was replied...

QuoteOriginally posted by EricT Quote
You can try the multiple exposure function of the K20D. This will let you take 2, 3 or 5 shots with at different shutter speeds, and they will then get automatically blended in the camera.
Another common trick is to shoot raw and fiddle with the white balance in post processing. This lets you get those intense red sunrises, or even purple.
I thought he meant doing exposure bracketing and combining in photoshop, but another user replied...

QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
Normal bracketing, which is selected with the button on the back of the camera, is not the same thing as multi-exposure. For the latter, you must go into the menus and select "Multiple Exposure", you then select how many shots to combine on a single frame and whether to average the exposure or use them all as is.

I have a K10D, but I'm sure that the function is the same in the K20D.

And, yes, some photographers do use the multi-exposure feature to do in-camera HDR.

Paul Noble
So thus began the quest to do a 'multiple exposure' shot that I cannot figure out how to do....

Does this help clarify was I'm referring to?

Thanks again in advance!

Ken
02-17-2009, 09:31 PM   #6
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I just tried multiple exposures. RAW, no EV, basic P mode at 1600 ISO.

Rec menu -> Multiple Exposure --> 3 shots

Press shutter, press shutter, press shutter.

Got three images of my lamp in one frame (positioned left, right, center).

If you want some HDR effect, I believe you need to change the exposure between shots. And a tripod would be useful to get the same framing.
02-17-2009, 11:49 PM   #7
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You would never get HDR effect with multiexposure.
They are different things.

Multiple exposure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
High dynamic range imaging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
02-18-2009, 12:24 AM   #8
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QuoteQuote:
Can someone please correct my misunderstanding of this function and tell me how to do it correctly? I heard this is another way to increase the dynamic range of a photo...

Thanks!

Ken
I can see why you are having a problem with this function. I read the K20 owner's manual (p103) & then tried to get a multi-exposure myself. The directions in the manual leave a lot to be desired if you ask me. Firstly, you do need to use a tripod, and perhaps a remote, if you are hoping to get a better exposed sunrise or sunset. Otherwise, you will just have blurring because the frames will not line up.

QuoteQuote:
Special K:If you want some HDR effect, I believe you need to change the exposure between shots. And a tripod would be useful to get the same framing
According to p 103 of the manual, when auto EV is on, the exposure is adjusted automatically according to the number of shots..

QuoteQuote:
Zebooka You would never get HDR effect with multi exposure.
They are different things
.

I think you are correct, that HDR is different from Multiple Exposure, however, the multiple exposure feature must, to some degree, simulate the HDR effect. With ME you can take up to 9 shots, all at different exposures, and piggy back. Of course this will not be as dramatic an effect as HDR, but surely it will put some pop into images.

The main difference from HDR would be the HDR is heavily reliant upon software and post-processing. I have not yet used the ME function, but it must have been the tool which provided the impetus for HDR.

Javaslinger: Setup a tripod and shoot somewhere between 2 and 9 images with precisely the same framing. Use a remote to trigger the camera if possible. Also, leave the auto-EV on and let it adjust the exposures.

After you have shot the number of exposures needed for the ME, then look at the finished image. I believe, once you go back into the menu, you automatically shut off the ME feature. So, you first need to select how many shots you will expose for, and then take them. They do not have to be one right after another, apparently, though I can see why your reasoning would intuit that.

When you are done, please post here for us. I'd love to see just what this feature is capable of doing. Thanks and Best!

02-18-2009, 12:25 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zebooka Quote
You would never get HDR effect with multiexposure.
They are different things.
Odd, as that is how people say they make them.

The first link is a very poor definition of multiple exposure, and the second (HDR) says this...

"technique of combining several differently exposed images to produce a single HDR image" .
02-18-2009, 02:33 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ole Quote
Multi exposure means taking two or more photos on "top of each other". Think film, with a film camera you can disengage film winding and take more than one photo on one negative.

If you want several exposures for HDR you should use autobracketing, for example 5 shots from -2 EV to +2 EV compensation and then process them into one HDR photo in Photoshop. The camera cannot do this for you.

And use a tripod to get the exact same framing for each shot.
Ole, the K10D and K20D's multi-exposure mode operates in 2 unique and distinct ways.

1) In the first manner, it works similar to the traditional method used in film of exposing several exposures onto a single frame. This is much like having an overlay of several layers in Photoshop, a useful technique in compositing. This is similar to what you wrote in para 1. In the camera's menu's Record Mode you need to uncheck the Auto EV Adjust check box. Basically the camera exposes the number of exposures you determine on the same file.

2) In the second and more interesting method, the camera uses multi-exposure mode differently. Basically you select the number of shots you want the camera to shoot in succession and check the Auto EV Adjust check box. The camera will cumulatively assess the total exposures of all the shots taken and merge them onto a single exposure.

In this manner the camera is able to expand the dynamic range of the scene from deep shadows to highlights that would have been impossible if a single exposure was taken. In principle this is similar to traditional HDR photography where one brackets single exposures and merge the bracketed images in software, but the effect in-camera is far more natural looking. In effect the camera works as if it is shooting at a much lower ISO than the camera's base ISO (eg. 5 exposures at ISO 100 = like omg... ISO 20 ???!!!)

This is a unique feature that is largely unknown and untapped by many K10D/K20D users who skip reading the camera manual. It lends itself to really stunning night images with results akin to what a professional digital re-toucher would do balancing the overall exposure by layering, burning and dodging in software.

Please note that multi-exposure mode is different from auto bracketing, which only gives a sequence of exposures at different exposure steps but doesn't merge or combine the exposures. It is also distinct from the Extended Dynamic Range feature which widens the dynamic range of light and dark tones recorded by the sensor by suppressing highlight clipping.

Last edited by creampuff; 02-18-2009 at 02:50 AM. Reason: spell check
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