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02-23-2009, 12:45 PM   #1
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which K- body?

To complement my Fuji S5 Pro and my nikon glass (mainly indoors shooting) I will get back to Pentax system again but mainly to shoot outside. Candids and street photography.

I want a lightweight combo and since I love primes I´m considering either the FA or DA limiteds.

I´m not sure what to get as a camera yet. a K20D. K200D or K-m?


In terms of price the K20D costs a little more than both others which will cost me about the same.

In terms of weight the k-m leads and the K20D in last. This is very important but not the major factor (of course a k-m coupled with a DA 40 can´t be beaten for weight)

In terms of IQ (the most important factor) the K20D leads followed by the K200D and finally the k-m especially due to its jpegs that do not seem very famous when compared to the others.

So, I´m still considering every option but I´ve almost narrowed the choice between the K20D and the K200D. In terms of price and weight the K200D is well ahead but the question is in terms of IQ how far is the K200D from the K20D?

This is the answer I can´t find anywhere. Some say that the K20D is miles ahead and some say in terms of IQ they are very close.

Has anyone tried both or even a k-m that can be compared to the other 2? I find it so hard to find a real comparison from real users of 2 of them.

02-23-2009, 01:03 PM   #2
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unfortunately I cannot be of any real help. however, regarding this:
QuoteQuote:
This is the answer I can´t find anywhere. Some say that the K20D is miles ahead and some say in terms of IQ they are very close.
the K20 IS miles ahead of the both the K200 and K2000. both the 200 and 2000 share the same 10.2 CCD as that of the K10. although the K2000's version is the latest and greatest its very subjective on how much it is improved over the K10. but the 14.6 CMOS of the K20 is far superior in just about every respect. I know Ben is often cited as an example but his work speaks volumes for the K20. if you want a small light package I can suggest nothing other than the K2000 (thats why I bought my k-m) but if IQ is the most important factor (although stated, I would assume so if you use an S5 pro, lovely camera) then I would suggest the K20. if you are willing to include the K200, then I would suggest a K10 instead, but again you are splitting hairs concernin IQ between the two.

but without a doubt, if IQ is ultimetly what you are after, the K20 is the clear choice from where I am sitting. if you have the funds for a K20 though, I would think it wise to wait until after PMA to see what Pentax may or may not be offering in the very near future.
02-23-2009, 01:49 PM   #3
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Love my S5Pro...indoors

Thank you for your reply.

Indeed I love very much the S5Pro for its colors, DR and especially midtones range rendering (skin of people). As I shoot mainly people it is my most beloved camera from the many I have owned. Indoors it is very reliable because its auto white balance is outstanding and the jpeg straight from the camera are marvelous... even better than from the already legendary D40 jpegs.
I always shoot RAW+JPEG but only work the raw files when I missed the exposure or colors or when something must really be improved. If not I always use my jpegs and conserve the RAWS for the future (we never know).
Unfortunetly I find my S5Pro better indoors than outdoors. The colors could be better especially in sunny days and I don´t like what it does especially with the blues (sky) outdoors.
That is why I want a Pentax. It delivers outside and after the Fuji it is the best brand in midtones rendering (very important to me), better than Olympus... which is also very good. I hate the Nikon skin rendering (too orange) and I have owned a D40 or this matter.
So, since Jpeg are also very important straight out of the camera, the K-m doesn´t seems at the other options level in this matter. At least that was the impression from my reading here and elsewhere.
That leaves me with the K200D and the K20D. I´ve seen many pictures from the K200D and they seemed very good, also the K20D doesn´t need any presentation.
Are the jpeg from the K20D better than those from the K200D?
I´m really confused here.
02-23-2009, 01:59 PM   #4
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QuoteQuote:
Are the jpeg from the K20D better than those from the K200D?
I´m really confused here.
unfortunately I cannot answer that, so hopefully someone who can will chime in. however, I would assume they are. but this is an assumption only. being predominately a film user, I have never actually used a K20.

02-23-2009, 03:23 PM   #5
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Hm, I never have shot a single jpg with my K20, only RAWs, but what I saw from the K-m (aka K2000), which I gave my partner for Christmas looks really good. I cannot make out any inferiority in image quality with that little camera. It is ofcourse a matter of application and I have not made any DIN A3 prints from these jpgs. But I would assume that prints up to DIN A4 will be fine. Exposure and AF response are really good and things like contrast, saturation and sharpening can be adjusted to individual preferences, quite like any camera allows.

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02-23-2009, 06:02 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by coloseu Quote
Thank you for your reply.

Are the jpeg from the K20D better than those from the K200D?
I´m really confused here.
Yes, they are, according to the review of the two cameras by dpreview. The K20D jpegs are noticeably better.

But I bought the K200D anyway. The $500 Canadian difference between the K20D and the K200D wasn't worth it for improved jpegs, IMHO. I will shoot RAW with the 200D if I need to. But you know what? The jpegs from the K200D aren't bad at all, and you will notice flaws only at 100x magnification! Furthermore, the jpegs can be controlled from the K200D settings anyway.

So, without a doubt the K20D is the superior camera. I just didn't need it. Five hundred bucks will buy a lot of steak and beer this summer.

Last edited by snofox; 02-23-2009 at 06:11 PM.
02-23-2009, 07:53 PM   #7
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I have the K-m, and have no complaints with the jpegs. You would have to print very large to see the difference between any of these cameras, and even then they would be pretty small.

As to DPreview, they seem to be the only site that doesn't like the K-m's jpegs.
02-23-2009, 08:05 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by coloseu Quote
To complement my Fuji S5 Pro and my nikon glass (mainly indoors shooting) I will get back to Pentax system again but mainly to shoot outside. Candids and street photography.

I want a lightweight combo and since I love primes I´m considering either the FA or DA limiteds.
Since you are using a S5, I suppose you should have some requirements on skin tones and accurate rendition of colors.

I think the K-m has more accurate colour balance and reproduction in this department and its image quality could be better than the K20, putting aside the inferior in-camera jpeg (which you can shoot RAW to overcome). Of course, resolution wise the K20 excels but just think if this is the most important thing you want and need. (The S5 does not excel in resolution, just think why you like it :-))

02-24-2009, 02:39 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by coloseu Quote
and finally the k-m especially due to its jpegs that do not seem very famous when compared to the others.
Whenever I read this false statement, I always wonder where it comes from...
K-m doesn't deliver worse quality jpeg than the K200D or others in the same class.
02-24-2009, 06:48 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
Whenever I read this false statement, I always wonder where it comes from...
K-m doesn't deliver worse quality jpeg than the K200D or others in the same class.
no it doesn't, between the K200 and the K2000 its splitting hairs. both of which are better than the K10 but then we are only talking by a small margin. Pentax does Jpegs different than the other guys, and this doesn't sit well with DPreview.
02-24-2009, 07:58 AM   #11
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Thank you all for your replies. Very helpfull as usual.
Indeed, I´m choosing Pentax because I love the midtones the S5Pro delivers, as colors and I think Pentax is the closest here. I´m not very happy with the Fuji colors outside and that is why I want Pentax for. So high Iso and noise reproduction won´t be much of an issue and surely not a decising factor between the 3 bodies choice. I plan to shoot mostly outside at ISO 100.
Also, my S5Pro lacks the resolution for cropping and printing A3 which I sometimes do (not much but since I have a R1900 printer sometimes it happens). No problem in this department since all 3 cameras have more than 10 Million MP. Ok, the K20D has more but considering the price I won´t choose it for this feature alone.
Since I buy with an international VAT number and don´t pay VAT in the spot, I can get:
K20D (body only) for 588 Euros
K200D (body only) for 344 Euros
K2000 (or K-m here in Europe) with the kit lens for 340 Euros

As you can see the K200d and the K-m will cost me about the same. The kit lens won´t interest me so I could sell it for lets say 40 Euros which would make me the K-m purchase for 300 Euros. Still it is not that diference in price that will make me choose the K-m or the K200D.
The K20D will cost me more 240 Euros than both the other cameras. My big question is, should I save the money for Limiteds or is the price diference worth it?
My S5Pro is already kind of heavy and sometimes I leave it at home and only carry my Sigma DP1 because of weight... so I wouldn´t want this to happen with the Pentax, especially since it is mainly for outdoors.
Maybe the K-m or the K200D would be a more wised choice for my purposes.
I still keep thinking that nothing can beat a K-m coupled with the DA 40 f/2.8 Limited in terms of weight and size but I don´t know why I keep also thinking of the K200D with the DA 35 f/2.8 and DA 70 F/2.4
Some say, wait for PMA that is only one week away. Honestly even if they come with some new bodies, the thruth is that they will cost me much more than the prices I just gave you and I prefer invest in glass instead of bodies. Plus, meanwhile the K200D can disapear since it is discontinued and I wouldn´t want to choose the K-m only because the other option is no longer available. Finally, even if with the new anounces prices of the older models could go down, as you can imagine by the prices I gave you... how much can they go down? Probably some insignificant value that won´t justify waiting, with the risk of seing the K200D disapear.
Hope you follow my line of thought and help me a little more by knowing this extra information I just provided you.

Thank you all... you are the best, always willing to help!
02-24-2009, 10:59 AM   #12
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only 100gr diference???

Now, I saw the specs concerning both cameras and realised that there are 100gr diference apart from them. I was kind of shocked because I really believed the diference would be greater and really can´t understand a decision factor between both based only on those 100gr.
Am I missing something here???
02-24-2009, 12:12 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by coloseu Quote
Thank you all for your replies. Very helpfull as usual.
Indeed, I´m choosing Pentax because I love the midtones the S5Pro delivers, as colors and I think Pentax is the closest here. I´m not very happy with the Fuji colors outside and that is why I want Pentax for. So high Iso and noise reproduction won´t be much of an issue and surely not a decising factor between the 3 bodies choice. I plan to shoot mostly outside at ISO 100.
Also, my S5Pro lacks the resolution for cropping and printing A3 which I sometimes do (not much but since I have a R1900 printer sometimes it happens). No problem in this department since all 3 cameras have more than 10 Million MP. Ok, the K20D has more but considering the price I won´t choose it for this feature alone.
Since I buy with an international VAT number and don´t pay VAT in the spot, I can get:
K20D (body only) for 588 Euros
K200D (body only) for 344 Euros
K2000 (or K-m here in Europe) with the kit lens for 340 Euros

As you can see the K200d and the K-m will cost me about the same. The kit lens won´t interest me so I could sell it for lets say 40 Euros which would make me the K-m purchase for 300 Euros. Still it is not that diference in price that will make me choose the K-m or the K200D.
The K20D will cost me more 240 Euros than both the other cameras. My big question is, should I save the money for Limiteds or is the price diference worth it?
My S5Pro is already kind of heavy and sometimes I leave it at home and only carry my Sigma DP1 because of weight... so I wouldn´t want this to happen with the Pentax, especially since it is mainly for outdoors.
Maybe the K-m or the K200D would be a more wised choice for my purposes.
I still keep thinking that nothing can beat a K-m coupled with the DA 40 f/2.8 Limited in terms of weight and size but I don´t know why I keep also thinking of the K200D with the DA 35 f/2.8 and DA 70 F/2.4
Some say, wait for PMA that is only one week away. Honestly even if they come with some new bodies, the thruth is that they will cost me much more than the prices I just gave you and I prefer invest in glass instead of bodies. Plus, meanwhile the K200D can disapear since it is discontinued and I wouldn´t want to choose the K-m only because the other option is no longer available. Finally, even if with the new anounces prices of the older models could go down, as you can imagine by the prices I gave you... how much can they go down? Probably some insignificant value that won´t justify waiting, with the risk of seing the K200D disapear.
Hope you follow my line of thought and help me a little more by knowing this extra information I just provided you.

Thank you all... you are the best, always willing to help!
I would, honestly, get the K-m. It is a nice little camera, that makes great pictures and seems to be quite capable, as far as I can tell from the images and the few hours of using it I've had. I personally prefer something heavier and bigger in size, but I would use my partner's K-m for easy snapshots and when I want to be unobtrusive - idel for street photography, in my opinion. The image quality leaves nothing to be desired and I always found 10 MP enough for many applications, which is the reason I still keep my old K10.

Ben
02-25-2009, 02:27 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by coloseu Quote
can´t understand a decision factor between both based only on those 100gr.
Am I missing something here???
The small different in weight alone itself is not a decision factor. It is in the specs, features. K200D has advantage in some things, K-m has in other things. You have to know what is important to you (improved AF performance?, weather sealing?, top lcd?, improved user interface?, dof preview?, improved continous mode?, etc - I mixed the advantages of the bodies on purpose ) and make your decision based on which body fulfills more of your needs.
02-25-2009, 03:33 AM   #15
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Coloseu > I'm with Ben here. Get the k-m. You wanted a camera for taking snapshots, candids and street right? You have your fantastic S5 there already for your serious work.

The k-m's JPEGs are GREAT with a little tweaking. As the reviews say, they're not very good in their default state. Tweak them and they're great.

It's faster, cheaper, smaller, lighter, has a good VF for it's price/size/weight and has good output. Slap on the DA limiteds and you'll have a fine camera system.
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