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Alfisti · 02-25-2009, 07:09 PM

The D300 is far more aggresive with it's NR defaults, crank up the chroma NR in your RAW conversion and you should be OK.

kenyee · 02-25-2009, 07:19 PM

Can you leave the EXIF in your images when you edit like that? If you had DR on, then yes, you'll get lots of noise in the shadows. If you turn on Nikon's version of it, you get the same "feature". That's why most people don't use it

candgpics · 02-25-2009, 09:26 PM

Thanx for all of your replies. I also will do some test printing this weekend.

Can anyone suggest some internal settings they use for general purpose shooting around the house and outdoors so I can get the best results as I learn to use my k20d? Any suggestions for landscape/nature in particular and for casual portraits of family?

Thanx again.

krypticide · 02-25-2009, 09:42 PM

Odd...I don't see any noise issues at all.

Timtast1c · 02-25-2009, 10:33 PM

Interesting that this came up. I have also noticed that on my new K20d that in low light conditions and even when the camera itself uses low ISO settings... the images have a significant more amount of grain than my K10d. During the day the K20d rules hands down. I did many comparison shots between the two with my new DA* 16-50 and the K10d got away with using higher ISO and much less noise every time....... interesting....

Timtast1c · 02-26-2009, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by iceemn360

Interesting that this came up. I have also noticed that on my new K20d that in low light conditions and even when the camera itself uses low ISO settings... the images have a significant more amount of grain than my K10d. During the day the K20d rules hands down. I did many comparison shots between the two with my new DA* 16-50 and the K10d got away with using higher ISO and much less noise every time....... interesting....

Haha ..... hmmm well

I did a reset under the set up menu and now the noise is as it should be (minimal!) so yay. perhaps that might help

zenkinsw · 02-26-2009, 02:20 AM

Hihi,

The K20D has less noise reduction effect compare to other models, but you gain the advantage with more details than the other brand too.

If you have read the review from DPReview web site and compare the Queen's head samples, you would understand.

Pentax K20D Review: 18. Photographic tests (Noise): Digital Photography Review

If you shoot in RAW, try to shoot with higher exposure by EV+, and decrease the exposure when post-process will help to reduce shadow noise.

If shoot in JPG, try to lower the sharpness will help little.

I personally found the noise levels are acceptable, and Pentax/Samsung noise look pretty natural within 100-800 ISO.

hope these would help.

falconeye · 02-26-2009, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by lawjbm

The crop of my house makes things look worse than they are, but there still is noise at 100 ISO and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong

Yes, you're doing something wrong.
There is no noise in this crop. JPEG artifacts, yes, but no noise. If you see it, then your monitor is badly calibrated and you should calibrate it before anything else. You'll see that prints would be noise free. Sounds like you watch at Gamma=1.0 where the image is meant for Gamma=2.2.

As I said before: Noise at ISO100 only if you crank up the shadow brightness or look at an angle onto the screen. Or use a bad monitor or the wrong color profile

candgpics · 02-26-2009, 05:26 AM

Thanx all for your continued help.

I will do some printing this weekend and check my monitor. I use a Huey Pantone Pro, but will recalibrtae/check my settings.

When I look at the pictures on my desktop with a 26 inch LCD the noise in the indoor photo is very apparent. On my laptop it almost is invisible.

I also recognize comparing to a D300 is a bit unfair, though one member pointed out it was newer than the k20d. I thought they were introduced around roughly the same time as one another, perhaps with the k20d being slightly newer. Having said that there is a significant price diference so I want to be fair.

The Canon 40D I think is a more appropriate comparison and the noise on the
40D under the same conditions with similar settings is much less. There, but less.

I also am having slight softness issues, though. The pictures are not tack sharp or snapping into focus, handheld or on a tripod. This is my second copy of a camera and lens for this model and I am shooting RAW. I played around in Camera Raw 5.2, but no matter what I do the D300 and 40D pictures are sharper and more in focus. I will take some RAW+JPEGs this weekend at defaults (but playing around with NR on OFF, Weakest, and WEAK). I know the JPEGS may be a bit oversaturated with color.

I will let you all know what I see.

Any further suggestions are appreciated.

Thanx.

Jasvox · 02-26-2009, 05:31 AM

Can you also post the exif data?

The main thing I see and your possible culprit is they seem to be underexposed. Try a better or more correct exposure and see what your results are.

Lastly, whatever the noise issue may be it pales in caparison to the effect it has on faces and vehicles....

Jason

simico · 02-26-2009, 06:43 AM

First of all: "who is the freak that just joined?"

Just joking, sorry, couldn't resist

I also don't see any noise in those (small) pictures, even though I'm a pixel peeper.

kenyee · 02-26-2009, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by lawjbm

I also am having slight softness issues, though. The pictures are not tack sharp or snapping into focus, handheld or on a tripod. This is my second copy of a camera and lens for this model and I am shooting RAW. I played around in Camera Raw 5.2, but no matter what I do the D300 and 40D pictures are sharper and more in focus.

Please post examples w/ EXIF.
One big difference is the sensor is closer to the theoretical lens resolution limit. If you go look at Canon forums, you'll see 50D (15Mpix) complain about the same thing compared to the 40D.
In postprocessing, crank up the sharpness a bit more on the K20D photos. You'll have more detail than the D300/40D.
I had a similar reaction when I upgraded from my K10D (10Mpix sensor).

er1kksen · 02-26-2009, 07:56 AM

As far as the softness goes, you might want to check to make sure that you got a good copy of the 16-50: many of them are known to have decentering problems that cause softness. A good copy should typically turn out wonderfully sharp images.

candgpics · 02-26-2009, 08:14 AM

Is there a way for me to test the 16-50 lens?

I have set the camera on a table (SR off) and taken pictures of objects placed behind one another in an attempt to see if there are back or front focusing problems. I used the in-camera adjustments for focusing and clearly that has an effect, but even when at the sharpest (either at the default focusing or 1 step behind or 1 step in front) there is no snapping of focus. The pictures are not blurry, but not as clear as the 40D or the D300.

Any suggestions?

Thanx again.

rfortson · 02-26-2009, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by krypticide

Odd...I don't see any noise issues at all.

Ditto, I don't see it, but in fairness the shots are small. Maybe it shows up in the full sized shots.

Of course, then that begs the question of when will you use a full size shot.

02-25-2009, 09:26 PM	#18
candgpics Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 394 Original Poster	Thanx so much everyone Thanx for all of your replies. I also will do some test printing this weekend. Can anyone suggest some internal settings they use for general purpose shooting around the house and outdoors so I can get the best results as I learn to use my k20d? Any suggestions for landscape/nature in particular and for casual portraits of family? Thanx again.

02-26-2009, 05:26 AM	#24
candgpics Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 394 Original Poster	Thanx again for your replies Thanx all for your continued help. I will do some printing this weekend and check my monitor. I use a Huey Pantone Pro, but will recalibrtae/check my settings. When I look at the pictures on my desktop with a 26 inch LCD the noise in the indoor photo is very apparent. On my laptop it almost is invisible. I also recognize comparing to a D300 is a bit unfair, though one member pointed out it was newer than the k20d. I thought they were introduced around roughly the same time as one another, perhaps with the k20d being slightly newer. Having said that there is a significant price diference so I want to be fair. The Canon 40D I think is a more appropriate comparison and the noise on the 40D under the same conditions with similar settings is much less. There, but less. I also am having slight softness issues, though. The pictures are not tack sharp or snapping into focus, handheld or on a tripod. This is my second copy of a camera and lens for this model and I am shooting RAW. I played around in Camera Raw 5.2, but no matter what I do the D300 and 40D pictures are sharper and more in focus. I will take some RAW+JPEGs this weekend at defaults (but playing around with NR on OFF, Weakest, and WEAK). I know the JPEGS may be a bit oversaturated with color. I will let you all know what I see. Any further suggestions are appreciated. Thanx.

02-26-2009, 08:14 AM	#29
candgpics Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 394 Original Poster	How to test 16-50 lens Is there a way for me to test the 16-50 lens? I have set the camera on a table (SR off) and taken pictures of objects placed behind one another in an attempt to see if there are back or front focusing problems. I used the in-camera adjustments for focusing and clearly that has an effect, but even when at the sharpest (either at the default focusing or 1 step behind or 1 step in front) there is no snapping of focus. The pictures are not blurry, but not as clear as the 40D or the D300. Any suggestions? Thanx again.

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02-25-2009, 07:09 PM	#16
Alfisti Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto (for now) Posts: 1,748	The D300 is far more aggresive with it's NR defaults, crank up the chroma NR in your RAW conversion and you should be OK.

02-25-2009, 07:19 PM	#17
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Can you leave the EXIF in your images when you edit like that? If you had DR on, then yes, you'll get lots of noise in the shadows. If you turn on Nikon's version of it, you get the same "feature". That's why most people don't use it

02-25-2009, 09:42 PM	#19
krypticide Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,079	Odd...I don't see any noise issues at all.

02-25-2009, 10:33 PM	#20
Timtast1c Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 330	Interesting that this came up. I have also noticed that on my new K20d that in low light conditions and even when the camera itself uses low ISO settings... the images have a significant more amount of grain than my K10d. During the day the K20d rules hands down. I did many comparison shots between the two with my new DA* 16-50 and the K10d got away with using higher ISO and much less noise every time....... interesting....

02-26-2009, 12:40 AM	#21
Timtast1c Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 330	Originally posted by iceemn360 Interesting that this came up. I have also noticed that on my new K20d that in low light conditions and even when the camera itself uses low ISO settings... the images have a significant more amount of grain than my K10d. During the day the K20d rules hands down. I did many comparison shots between the two with my new DA* 16-50 and the K10d got away with using higher ISO and much less noise every time....... interesting.... Haha ..... hmmm well I did a reset under the set up menu and now the noise is as it should be (minimal!) so yay. perhaps that might help

02-26-2009, 02:20 AM	#22
zenkinsw New Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 14	Hihi, The K20D has less noise reduction effect compare to other models, but you gain the advantage with more details than the other brand too. If you have read the review from DPReview web site and compare the Queen's head samples, you would understand. Pentax K20D Review: 18. Photographic tests (Noise): Digital Photography Review If you shoot in RAW, try to shoot with higher exposure by EV+, and decrease the exposure when post-process will help to reduce shadow noise. If shoot in JPG, try to lower the sharpness will help little. I personally found the noise levels are acceptable, and Pentax/Samsung noise look pretty natural within 100-800 ISO. hope these would help.

02-26-2009, 04:37 AM	#23
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by lawjbm The crop of my house makes things look worse than they are, but there still is noise at 100 ISO and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong Yes, you're doing something wrong. There is no noise in this crop. JPEG artifacts, yes, but no noise. If you see it, then your monitor is badly calibrated and you should calibrate it before anything else. You'll see that prints would be noise free. Sounds like you watch at Gamma=1.0 where the image is meant for Gamma=2.2. As I said before: Noise at ISO100 only if you crank up the shadow brightness or look at an angle onto the screen. Or use a bad monitor or the wrong color profile

02-26-2009, 05:31 AM	#25
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	Can you also post the exif data? The main thing I see and your possible culprit is they seem to be underexposed. Try a better or more correct exposure and see what your results are. Lastly, whatever the noise issue may be it pales in caparison to the effect it has on faces and vehicles.... Jason

02-26-2009, 06:43 AM	#26
simico Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Budapest Posts: 821	First of all: "who is the freak that just joined?" Just joking, sorry, couldn't resist I also don't see any noise in those (small) pictures, even though I'm a pixel peeper.

02-26-2009, 06:44 AM	#27
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by lawjbm I also am having slight softness issues, though. The pictures are not tack sharp or snapping into focus, handheld or on a tripod. This is my second copy of a camera and lens for this model and I am shooting RAW. I played around in Camera Raw 5.2, but no matter what I do the D300 and 40D pictures are sharper and more in focus. Please post examples w/ EXIF. One big difference is the sensor is closer to the theoretical lens resolution limit. If you go look at Canon forums, you'll see 50D (15Mpix) complain about the same thing compared to the 40D. In postprocessing, crank up the sharpness a bit more on the K20D photos. You'll have more detail than the D300/40D. I had a similar reaction when I upgraded from my K10D (10Mpix sensor).

02-26-2009, 07:56 AM	#28
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	As far as the softness goes, you might want to check to make sure that you got a good copy of the 16-50: many of them are known to have decentering problems that cause softness. A good copy should typically turn out wonderfully sharp images.

02-26-2009, 08:46 AM	#30
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129	Originally posted by krypticide Odd...I don't see any noise issues at all. Ditto, I don't see it, but in fairness the shots are small. Maybe it shows up in the full sized shots. Of course, then that begs the question of when will you use a full size shot.

New k20d owner with low ISO noise issue

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