K20D: Anyone had a 'blackout' or 'whiteout'?

enoxatnep · 03-10-2009, 08:13 PM

In December, not long after I got my K20D, I fired a shot with my Vivitar 283 flash - which had worked flawlessly for over four years on a Fujifilm digital I had - when my screen went black (no image review) and I was totally unable to press any buttons. (I'll call this a 'blackout'.) I turned the camera off then on again with no luck. So I removed the battery and put it in again, turned the camera on and everything worked fine. Ever since, even with using that flash, there have been no problems.

Fast forward to this evening. I turned my camera on to change my USER mode settings. Then I realized that I better change my time to daylight savings in the World Time mode of the Set-up menu. So I made sure both time zones had the checkmark in the daylight savings boxes, pressed OK, then pressed the shutter halfway to return to shooting mode.

After this without shutting the camera off, I walked to a window to take some outdoor test shots using a new filter (from inside - it was -20oC out there!), so no flash required, and after a couple of shots the camera froze up again: no image review, no buttons worked, etc. So I did the same remedy as above and everything worked again, but when I went to play back the image to see if it was captured, the image was completely white (I'll call this a 'whiteout'.)

I also went back into the World Time mode and noticed that the times were still the same as they were after I changed them to daylight savings mode, but now the checkmarks for DST in both time zones were no longer checked, and once I checked them they gained yet another hour. My USER mode settings also had reverted to what they were before I had changed them. Anyhow, I changed these settings all over again and they stayed this time and all is good (for now)

.

BUT HERE'S WHAT I WISH TO ASK:

Who else has had what I call a 'blackout' or 'whiteout'?
What did you do that caused your problem to occur?
If you haven't sent your K20D in for repair, has your problem recurred? If so, how often/how may times?
If you have sent it in for repair, what needed to be fixed?
As an aside, if you had AF inconsistency before the repair, was this inconsistency gone after the repair?

sharko · 03-10-2009, 10:11 PM

I think you fried your camera with that old flash. I have a vivitar 285hv that works fine with my k20 but had read elsewhere that the older 283 has too high a trigger voltage for a modern dslr.

pasipasi · 03-10-2009, 10:58 PM

Yes, it says here that the voltage might even be up at 600V if it's an older version. Anything below 10V is considered safe.

inferno10 · 03-10-2009, 11:28 PM

Definitely sounds like your camera experienced overvoltage from the flash. You'll have to take it in for service.

Damn Brit · 03-11-2009, 12:33 AM

Oops, that's a mistake people don't make too often fortunately. If you know of someone getting a DSLR, warn them.

enoxatnep · 03-11-2009, 06:49 AM

I really didn't think an 8.5 - 8.7 V trigger voltage would fry it! Like I say, I had used it on my Fuji 602 for over 4 years without incident. I even tested the voltage before using it on the Fuji AND on the K20D. I even tested it while discharging the flash and no voltage spike occurred - even on full power mode - unless it happens so fast that the voltmeter can't pick it up. I guess what bothers me is how the K20D worked perfectly after that for 3 months without incident until last night when I wasn't even using a flash! Go figure.

Anyhow, I guess it's time to phone the repair center.

I suppose the golden rule out of this, as mentioned by others, is you can't trust those old flashes even if you think the voltmeter reading is good!

glanglois · 03-11-2009, 07:16 AM

In some cases, the damage from overvoltage is cumulative - breaking down a component little by little over a period of time. There may be a transition state in which the component is working on the margin and some random event will cause an occasional unintended behavior.

Surge protectors sacrifice themselves in just this fashion. I suspect that the flash did just enough damage, a bit at a time, to have the K10D working on the margin.

Best of luck with the repair! If we're all wrong, Pentax should figure it out and we'll all be wiser when you update us with the result.

**SA Photo** · 03-12-2009, 08:01 AM

This has been happening to my K20 since it was new. It happens without a flash. There has been numerious post here about this problem. I have yet to send mine back but it will be soon. Camera just freezes and you have to remove the battery to fix the problem.

enoxatnep · 03-12-2009, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by hoghead

This has been happening to my K20 since it was new. It happens without a flash. There has been numerious post here about this problem. I have yet to send mine back but it will be soon. Camera just freezes and you have to remove the battery to fix the problem.

Interesting you should mention this. Even before I read your post, I was believing less and less that it's my flash after all; there's no possible way an 8.5V trigger voltage would fry that thing, esp. if my Fuji had no problems over so many years.

Pentax Canada has yet to respond to an e-mail I sent nearly two days ago about what I mentioned in the first post. Maybe they, too, think it's not a flash problem and they don't know what else to tell me yet! Anyhow, I do intend to update things as I learn them.

enoxatnep · 03-12-2009, 07:13 PM

After I typed my last post, I thought of Hoghead's comment about there being other threads on this issue and did a search. As I was looking at these other threads, the thought suddenly struck me that maybe I'm being too picky to be expecting perfection from any electronic device, K20D or otherwise. I mean, who on this planet has ever owned a computer, for example, that hasn't frozen or crashed at some point (even a Mac!)?

A K20D is also a computer, and now I'm realizing just how ridiculous I've been the past couple of days to expect this thing to never have a glitch! It was only the second such incident in nearly four months of ownership, and only now do I wonder why I've been so bothered by it.

Anyhow, I just thought I'd share this 'revelation'. If Pentax Canada returns my e-mail and suggests I send it in, I will since it's under warranty. But if they don't think it's an issue, I'll agree with them unless somehow it becomes much more frequent.

**SA Photo** · 03-12-2009, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by enoxatnep

After I did my last post, I thought of hoghead's comment about other threads on this issue and I did a search. As I was looking at these other threads, the thought suddenly struck me that maybe I'm being too picky to be expecting perfection from any electronic device, K20D or otherwise. I mean, who on this planet has ever owned a computer, for example, that hasn't frozen or crashed at one time or another

Try telling that to a bride if you miss the most important shot of the day because your camera locks up! I won't even think about using my K20D during the actual ceremony, I fall back on my K10D to be sure I get the shots.

enoxatnep · 03-12-2009, 07:59 PM

Well then, I guess I should have sent my old Windows computer in for service after its first BSOD, or my Mac after its first DOD (Dashboard of Death)

ariahspam · 03-12-2009, 08:50 PM

I also have experienced 'blackout' sometimes. I posted that long ago but no one really cared.

Symptoms I experienced:

-When I turn off the camera, the number of shots remaining appears on the top lcd and stay there until you turn on the camera or remove the battery (normally they only show up for about a second).

-When I take a shot, it appears completely black.

Andi Lo · 03-12-2009, 08:53 PM

My K100d has never missed a beat ever since I bought it a year ago. Sometimes it will lock up' is when I take 10 seconds and up exposures. It will take forever to process the shot and I'll just turn it off (and it will keep working, then turn off, but the shot is saved). I'm probably just impatient... But I guess in any product line there's always defects. I would take it in if it bothers you, but if you can live with it maybe wait till the warranty period is almost over.

**SA Photo** · 03-13-2009, 03:58 AM

Originally posted by Andi Lo

My K100d has never missed a beat ever since I bought it a year ago. Sometimes it will lock up' is when I take 10 seconds and up exposures. It will take forever to process the shot and I'll just turn it off (and it will keep working, then turn off, but the shot is saved). I'm probably just impatient... But I guess in any product line there's always defects. I would take it in if it bothers you, but if you can live with it maybe wait till the warranty period is almost over.

When I called Pentax that what they told me to do, wait until the warranty is almost over and send it in then I would get another 12 months warranty.

03-10-2009, 08:13 PM	#1
enoxatnep Closed Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The edge of nowhere, Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 467	K20D: Anyone had a 'blackout' or 'whiteout'? In December, not long after I got my K20D, I fired a shot with my Vivitar 283 flash - which had worked flawlessly for over four years on a Fujifilm digital I had - when my screen went black (no image review) and I was totally unable to press any buttons. (I'll call this a 'blackout'.) I turned the camera off then on again with no luck. So I removed the battery and put it in again, turned the camera on and everything worked fine. Ever since, even with using that flash, there have been no problems. Fast forward to this evening. I turned my camera on to change my USER mode settings. Then I realized that I better change my time to daylight savings in the World Time mode of the Set-up menu. So I made sure both time zones had the checkmark in the daylight savings boxes, pressed OK, then pressed the shutter halfway to return to shooting mode. After this without shutting the camera off, I walked to a window to take some outdoor test shots using a new filter (from inside - it was -20oC out there!), so no flash required, and after a couple of shots the camera froze up again: no image review, no buttons worked, etc. So I did the same remedy as above and everything worked again, but when I went to play back the image to see if it was captured, the image was completely white (I'll call this a 'whiteout'.) I also went back into the World Time mode and noticed that the times were still the same as they were after I changed them to daylight savings mode, but now the checkmarks for DST in both time zones were no longer checked, and once I checked them they gained yet another hour. My USER mode settings also had reverted to what they were before I had changed them. Anyhow, I changed these settings all over again and they stayed this time and all is good (for now). BUT HERE'S WHAT I WISH TO ASK: Who else has had what I call a 'blackout' or 'whiteout'? What did you do that caused your problem to occur? If you haven't sent your K20D in for repair, has your problem recurred? If so, how often/how may times? If you have sent it in for repair, what needed to be fixed? As an aside, if you had AF inconsistency before the repair, was this inconsistency gone after the repair?

03-12-2009, 07:13 PM	#10
enoxatnep Closed Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The edge of nowhere, Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 467 Original Poster	Maybe I'm just being too picky? After I typed my last post, I thought of Hoghead's comment about there being other threads on this issue and did a search. As I was looking at these other threads, the thought suddenly struck me that maybe I'm being too picky to be expecting perfection from any electronic device, K20D or otherwise. I mean, who on this planet has ever owned a computer, for example, that hasn't frozen or crashed at some point (even a Mac!)? A K20D is also a computer, and now I'm realizing just how ridiculous I've been the past couple of days to expect this thing to never have a glitch! It was only the second such incident in nearly four months of ownership, and only now do I wonder why I've been so bothered by it. Anyhow, I just thought I'd share this 'revelation'. If Pentax Canada returns my e-mail and suggests I send it in, I will since it's under warranty. But if they don't think it's an issue, I'll agree with them unless somehow it becomes much more frequent.

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03-10-2009, 10:11 PM	#2
sharko Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: City of Angels Photos: Gallery Posts: 278	I think you fried your camera with that old flash. I have a vivitar 285hv that works fine with my k20 but had read elsewhere that the older 283 has too high a trigger voltage for a modern dslr.

03-10-2009, 10:58 PM	#3
pasipasi Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Oulu Photos: Gallery Posts: 532	Yes, it says here that the voltage might even be up at 600V if it's an older version. Anything below 10V is considered safe.

03-10-2009, 11:28 PM	#4
inferno10 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 342	Definitely sounds like your camera experienced overvoltage from the flash. You'll have to take it in for service.

03-11-2009, 12:33 AM	#5
Damn Brit Guest	Oops, that's a mistake people don't make too often fortunately. If you know of someone getting a DSLR, warn them.

03-11-2009, 06:49 AM	#6
enoxatnep Closed Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The edge of nowhere, Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 467 Original Poster	I really didn't think an 8.5 - 8.7 V trigger voltage would fry it! Like I say, I had used it on my Fuji 602 for over 4 years without incident. I even tested the voltage before using it on the Fuji AND on the K20D. I even tested it while discharging the flash and no voltage spike occurred - even on full power mode - unless it happens so fast that the voltmeter can't pick it up. I guess what bothers me is how the K20D worked perfectly after that for 3 months without incident until last night when I wasn't even using a flash! Go figure. Anyhow, I guess it's time to phone the repair center. I suppose the golden rule out of this, as mentioned by others, is you can't trust those old flashes even if you think the voltmeter reading is good!

03-11-2009, 07:16 AM	#7
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	In some cases, the damage from overvoltage is cumulative - breaking down a component little by little over a period of time. There may be a transition state in which the component is working on the margin and some random event will cause an occasional unintended behavior. Surge protectors sacrifice themselves in just this fashion. I suspect that the flash did just enough damage, a bit at a time, to have the K10D working on the margin. Best of luck with the repair! If we're all wrong, Pentax should figure it out and we'll all be wiser when you update us with the result.

03-12-2009, 08:01 AM	#8
SA Photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Virgina Posts: 129	This has been happening to my K20 since it was new. It happens without a flash. There has been numerious post here about this problem. I have yet to send mine back but it will be soon. Camera just freezes and you have to remove the battery to fix the problem.

03-12-2009, 06:45 PM	#9
enoxatnep Closed Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The edge of nowhere, Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 467 Original Poster	Originally posted by hoghead This has been happening to my K20 since it was new. It happens without a flash. There has been numerious post here about this problem. I have yet to send mine back but it will be soon. Camera just freezes and you have to remove the battery to fix the problem. Interesting you should mention this. Even before I read your post, I was believing less and less that it's my flash after all; there's no possible way an 8.5V trigger voltage would fry that thing, esp. if my Fuji had no problems over so many years. Pentax Canada has yet to respond to an e-mail I sent nearly two days ago about what I mentioned in the first post. Maybe they, too, think it's not a flash problem and they don't know what else to tell me yet! Anyhow, I do intend to update things as I learn them.

03-12-2009, 07:15 PM	#11
SA Photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Virgina Posts: 129	Originally posted by enoxatnep After I did my last post, I thought of hoghead's comment about other threads on this issue and I did a search. As I was looking at these other threads, the thought suddenly struck me that maybe I'm being too picky to be expecting perfection from any electronic device, K20D or otherwise. I mean, who on this planet has ever owned a computer, for example, that hasn't frozen or crashed at one time or another Try telling that to a bride if you miss the most important shot of the day because your camera locks up! I won't even think about using my K20D during the actual ceremony, I fall back on my K10D to be sure I get the shots.

03-12-2009, 07:59 PM	#12
enoxatnep Closed Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The edge of nowhere, Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 467 Original Poster	Well then, I guess I should have sent my old Windows computer in for service after its first BSOD, or my Mac after its first DOD (Dashboard of Death)

03-12-2009, 08:50 PM	#13
ariahspam Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lima, Peru Posts: 68	I also have experienced 'blackout' sometimes. I posted that long ago but no one really cared. Symptoms I experienced: -When I turn off the camera, the number of shots remaining appears on the top lcd and stay there until you turn on the camera or remove the battery (normally they only show up for about a second). -When I take a shot, it appears completely black.

03-12-2009, 08:53 PM	#14
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	My K100d has never missed a beat ever since I bought it a year ago. Sometimes it will lock up' is when I take 10 seconds and up exposures. It will take forever to process the shot and I'll just turn it off (and it will keep working, then turn off, but the shot is saved). I'm probably just impatient... But I guess in any product line there's always defects. I would take it in if it bothers you, but if you can live with it maybe wait till the warranty period is almost over.

03-13-2009, 03:58 AM	#15
SA Photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Virgina Posts: 129	Originally posted by Andi Lo My K100d has never missed a beat ever since I bought it a year ago. Sometimes it will lock up' is when I take 10 seconds and up exposures. It will take forever to process the shot and I'll just turn it off (and it will keep working, then turn off, but the shot is saved). I'm probably just impatient... But I guess in any product line there's always defects. I would take it in if it bothers you, but if you can live with it maybe wait till the warranty period is almost over. When I called Pentax that what they told me to do, wait until the warranty is almost over and send it in then I would get another 12 months warranty.