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04-05-2009, 07:55 PM   #16
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5D is not the best but is still way better..

QuoteOriginally posted by Confused Quote
Hi all

I occasionally read about complaints from various Pentax owners concerning the poor performance of the autofocussing abilities of their K10D's, especially under low lighting conditions. However, it would appear from reading the quote below that apparently the "grass is not always greener on the other side" ?

THE CANON 5D REVIEW - REAL WORLD USE

Comments welcome.......

Best regards
Richard
The Canon users who complained usually expected EOS 1 series AF performance and accuracy and actually many of them were the 1 users, who just wanted a "lighter" and more "compact" Full Frame solution.

What I can tell is even 5D is not the best DSLR for its AF in the Canon land, it is still way better than any of existing Pentax AF bodies in terms of AF speed, low light capability, servo/continuous AF tracking ability and AF accuracy. With my prolonged experience with both systems, I can feel very safe to make such a conclusion and tell that the 5D's AF system wins in all the above four important performance aspects for a DSLR AF system.

04-05-2009, 08:01 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The Canon users who complained usually expected EOS 1 series AF performance and accuracy and actually many of them were the 1 users, who just wanted a "lighter" and more "compact" Full Frame solution.

What I can tell is even 5D is not the best DSLR for its AF in the Canon land, it is still way better than any of existing Pentax AF bodies in terms of AF speed, low light capability, servo/continuous AF tracking ability and AF accuracy. With my prolonged experience with both systems, I can feel very safe to make such a conclusion and tell that the 5D's AF system wins in all the above four important performance aspects for a DSLR AF system.
Except the cost...
04-05-2009, 08:06 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by OregonJim Quote
And to think that the Polaroid SX-70 had fast ultrasonic AF.....35 years ago!
I think that's a different kind of ultrasonic focusing...
04-05-2009, 08:21 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
What I can tell is even 5D is not the best DSLR for its AF in the Canon land, it is still way better than any of existing Pentax AF bodies in terms of AF speed, low light capability, servo/continuous AF tracking ability and AF accuracy.
Only if you use the center AF point. It's nearly universally agreed that it's the only accurate AF point on the 5D

04-05-2009, 08:58 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by octavmandru Quote
Except the cost...
Yes, we get what we paid - universal truth.

It is therefore when EOS 1 users criticize the "subpar" AF of the 5D, it is very easily understandable.

However, in the Pentax, can we pay more to get better stuff? I'm afraid the answer is negative so far.
04-05-2009, 09:04 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Only if you use the center AF point. It's nearly universally agreed that it's the only accurate AF point on the 5D
Most DSLRs/AFSLRs have better AF sensor at the central than the surroundings. Its quite normal here. Even the old Pentax film flagship MZ-S was designed like that, i.e., the central sensor has both better sensitivity and accuracy than the surroundings.
04-06-2009, 04:41 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Most DSLRs/AFSLRs have better AF sensor at the central than the surroundings. Its quite normal here. Even the old Pentax film flagship MZ-S was designed like that, i.e., the central sensor has both better sensitivity and accuracy than the surroundings.
So you're comparing the 5D w/ old film tech? I'm sure the Canon users would agree from the amount of griping I've seen about the 5D and 5DmkII

The K10/K20D are just as accurate on the side cross-type sensors as the center point. Nikon has a lot of cross-type sensors (not just the center AF point) and not just one. The 5D AF system is just old tech and I'm amazed Canon hasn't updated it in the 5DmkII.

The issue is that if you use a low DOF lens, you can't do focus recompose (wedding shooters...so this is driving a lot of them to switch to the D700)...the DOF is so low that if you use an 85/1.4, the DOF area won't be centered on the eyes if you focus on the eyes and then move the person off the center of frame. I've noticed this w/ the 77Ltd wide open as well but didn't think it would matter...
04-06-2009, 05:33 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
So you're comparing the 5D w/ old film tech? I'm sure the Canon users would agree from the amount of griping I've seen about the 5D and 5DmkII
Where, when and how??

QuoteQuote:
The K10/K20D are just as accurate on the side cross-type sensors as the center point. Nikon has a lot of cross-type sensors (not just the center AF point) and not just one. The 5D AF system is just old tech and I'm amazed Canon hasn't updated it in the 5DmkII.
Sometimes old techs are better than new ones. And, no body knows if the 5D's system is exactly old tech. Nonetheless, I would be happy if Pentax put back the MZ's AF into their current DSLR bodies, at least there will be no more obvious Front Focusing under yellow light.

QuoteQuote:
The issue is that if you use a low DOF lens, you can't do focus recompose (wedding shooters...so this is driving a lot of them to switch to the D700)...the DOF is so low that if you use an 85/1.4, the DOF area won't be centered on the eyes if you focus on the eyes and then move the person off the center of frame. I've noticed this w/ the 77Ltd wide open as well but didn't think it would matter...
That's just a theory, assuming perfectly flat focal plane of a lens at wide apertures. However, in practice, the AF errors are much larger than the recomposition derivation which then becomes neglectible, especially if the AF errors are large.

04-06-2009, 06:22 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
It is therefore when EOS 1 users criticize the "subpar" AF of the 5D, it is very easily understandable.
I've admittedly never used a 5D, but I can't imagine it being THAT horrible. I have a 1Ds II (which is still quite the performer), but don't think even my 10D is terrible when it comes to AF performance. Sure, the tracking is lightyears ahead as is low light on the 1 body, but the 10D is still a fine performer, speedy and accurate.
04-06-2009, 07:54 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Where, when and how??
Enjoy the read...
How many of you considering switching to D700 after 5D MK II announcement? - Page 2 - Canon Digital Photography Forums
Initial Impressions of AF system?: Canon EOS-1D / 1Ds / 5D Forum: Digital Photography Review
Re: Auto focus slower than my 450D?!: Canon EOS-1D / 1Ds / 5D Forum: Digital Photography Review
Re: 5D II AF Performance - from The Digital Picture Review: Canon EOS-1D / 1Ds / 5D Forum: Digital Photography Review

Robert also mentioned above that he had a 5D and found the same thing. I met a 5D user at a recent photo meetup and he had the same comment when he let me play with his 5D. And as I mentioned, my brother's wedding photog said the same thing. So it's a lot more complaining from a lot of different sources than can be ignore lightly as just a few people having problems

But the point is, everything has limitations...people learn to work around them or move onto something else that they can do what they need to be done with. A $2500 5D has limitations (and some big pros). If you're doing sports, buy a used Canon 1D (if you can afford it) and be amazed at 95% keepers...
04-06-2009, 08:51 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
But the point is, everything has limitations...people learn to work around them or move onto something else that they can do what they need to be done with. A $2500 5D has limitations (and some big pros). If you're doing sports, buy a used Canon 1D (if you can afford it) and be amazed at 95% keepers...
Most people aren't aware that they CAN afford them. The original 1D, while a very old camera now, can do quite a bit with its 4MP. There's a long running thread on POTN where people are sharing their work and it's amazing how well it performs. Seen them go for $300-400 on occasion. The 1D II is much improved and also not TOO pricey -- a friend got one from KEH the other day with batteries and charger for $975. If you're shooting action on a budget that is one heck of a deal.
04-06-2009, 01:12 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Most people aren't aware that they CAN afford them. The original 1D, while a very old camera now, can do quite a bit with its 4MP. There's a long running thread on POTN where people are sharing their work and it's amazing how well it performs. Seen them go for $300-400 on occasion. The 1D II is much improved and also not TOO pricey -- a friend got one from KEH the other day with batteries and charger for $975. If you're shooting action on a budget that is one heck of a deal.
True, but be careful. Many 1D MK Is and IIs are former pro cameras with several hundred thousand shots on them. A brand new K20D might cost less...in the long run.
04-06-2009, 02:56 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Robert S Donovan Quote
True, but be careful. Many 1D MK Is and IIs are former pro cameras with several hundred thousand shots on them. A brand new K20D might cost less...in the long run.
They are plentiful enough that you can buy from somebody reputable (e.g. FM forum members) and get a reliable shutter count. Worst case, you pay $200-300 for a new shutter and basically have a like new camera again.
04-06-2009, 05:42 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
The 1D II is much improved and also not TOO pricey
Sadly the 1d3 is on its second hardware recall to fix the problematic AF system which is still not as good as the Mk2. So much for progress.
04-06-2009, 05:55 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Sadly the 1d3 is on its second hardware recall to fix the problematic AF system which is still not as good as the Mk2. So much for progress.
Yeah, it's a damned shame. Canon has lost a lot of goodwill on that whole mess. Not only did they have hardware issues, they made the Mk III AF system so amazingly complex very few people actually manage to configure it to act like they want. I've heard from more than a few Mk III owners that they prefer to shoot with the Mk II since you can pretty much grab it and use it instead of fiddling with the AF settings to get it to do what you want. I think Canon just tried too hard on it, the Mk II system is so good there really was no need to attempt to improve it.

edit: I suppose it's like espresso machine. A superauto machine like my Italia gets a 90% perfect shot 100% of the time, while an all manual one has the chance of getting a 100% shot maybe 5% of the time, and the rest's all over the place. I'll take consistency rather than the potential for something slightly better most of the time...

Last edited by pingflood; 04-06-2009 at 06:05 PM.
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