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03-13-2009, 08:58 PM   #16
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"It's funny though, I have never noticed this in the 11000 shots I have taken with my K10D."

have you ever used the FA77mm f/1.8 limited?...the problem with such sharp glass is akin to the quest of trying to open the gates of heaven, you only rip open the gates of hell...the distance my subject was from the camera was about 8m. no ordinary lens could resolve a pattern like that, let alone resolve it to the point of causing moire.

03-13-2009, 10:12 PM   #17
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Rawhide (free) is supposed to have the best RAW conversion without producing moire compared to the others. Perhaps you might try it for just those situations?
03-13-2009, 11:53 PM   #18
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I'll check that out sodbuster. So Far, Capture One 4 offers every effective removal of Moire, albeit at a rather high cost in RAW processing speed...2 pass de-mosaic just to get rid of the worst of it and a bit of fine tuning. But it did the trick as I knew it would..it also has support for K10D DNG files though it has no K10D profiles out-of-the-box which is disappointing. I'll have to build my own profiles.

thanks for the tips and tricks guys.

the results from Capture One 4 Pro..(slightly sharpened, there are some maze artefacts but overall I'm very impressed by the image quality)

Last edited by Digitalis; 06-20-2009 at 06:51 AM.
03-14-2009, 06:26 AM   #19
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Wow. I'm impressed with Capture One as well. That's amazing. Someone should have told DPR about it so they didn't complain as much about the weak AA filter ;-)

03-14-2009, 09:29 AM   #20
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Indeed, that's a very impressive de-mosaicing feature - is there no PS equivalent?

Digitalis, when I see your forum name my first thought is 'heart rate control'... an intentional coincidence? (I think I need a holiday...)
03-14-2009, 10:45 PM   #21
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"Wow. I'm impressed with Capture One as well. That's amazing. Someone should have told DPR about it so they didn't complain as much about the weak AA filter ;-)"

Those people at DPR will whinge and whine about anything. Most of them deserve what they get.

the multiple pass feature is an Advanced Feature only availible in the full version of Capture one 4 Pro. Ever since Phase one came out with their 39megapixel and more recently, 60 megapixel full frame 6X4.5 medium format digital backs Moire control is becoming the forefront image quality issue especially amongst fashion photographers. Capture one 4 pro also has the best tethered shooting set-up I have seen, it's quite advanced too, raw/tiff processing on the fly....you can send the raw files and jpegs to separate folders it's impressive to say the least. Lightroom is just a major pain in the soft parts to do this. I haven't used apple aperture yet, I have heard mixed messages about it.

the only thing that annoys me about phase one is the lack of camera profiles. The reproduction of blues on the shirt isn't very accurate.

"Indeed, that's a very impressive de-mosaicing feature - is there no PS equivalent?"

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't. but there is a performance hit when you use it. I own a high end quad core processor, usual raw processing speed is one raw file in about 1.5 seconds at full resolution. With phase one it's more like 18 seconds with the advanced moire removal 2 pass de-mosaic features. But without it, phase one 4 is on par with PS. Also with the moire removal the raw files are a bit softer than usual, but they sharpen up fine.

"Digitalis, when I see your forum name my first thought is 'heart rate control'... an intentional coincidence? (I think I need a holiday)"

the foxglove is such a beautiful flower isn't it?

Last edited by Digitalis; 03-16-2009 at 04:01 AM.
03-15-2009, 02:44 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
looks like I'll have to run a copy through Capture one 4 - that software is designed to work with medium format backs. I know it has some powerful aliasing suppression filters available...no offence Adobe, but Lightroom II still has some way to go.
That is not the only remedy. Moiré is the result of spatial frequencies of the subject being interfering with the sensor. You can often easily avoid or reduce it by changing the imaging ratio - aka changing the distance to your subject. I know, that it is not always possible, but in many cases that helps. It is an old problem, which is especially serious for tv productions. Here the opnly remedy was, to beg people not to wear any shirts with small patterns in front of the camera...

Moiré is really hard to get rid off, once it is in the image, but maybe PhaseOne is better (EDIT: saw your processed image only after I replied - good job), than LR in that respect. Unfortunately my PhaseOne copy refuses to start-up, since I upgraded to v. 4 on my Mac, so I am bound to use LR exclusively...

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03-17-2009, 02:59 PM   #23
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No, it's not fancy bricks and skillful bricklaying.



It's a trick of the camera / lens.



Shot with a handheld K10 and a Vivitar 80-200 manual focus zoom that cost me £5-00, I know it's a crappy picture, it's the effect I'm posting as it seems similar?

03-18-2009, 03:06 AM   #24
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I’m on a crappy monitor now, but I don’t see it…
03-18-2009, 03:07 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lloydy Quote
Shot with a handheld K10 and a Vivitar 80-200 manual focus zoom that cost me £5-00, I know it's a crappy picture, it's the effect I'm posting as it seems similar?
I only see camera shake, no moiré.

Ben
03-18-2009, 11:25 AM   #26
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Here is some moire and how it looks with the 3 different demosaic algorithms available with RawTherapee. It’s not easy to choose.

200% pixelpeep.

03-18-2009, 12:51 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Here is some moire and how it looks with the 3 different demosaic algorithms available with RawTherapee. It’s not easy to choose.

200% pixelpeep.

That's a nice example. Thank you.

Ben
03-18-2009, 02:32 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
I only see camera shake, no moiré.

Ben
The camera shake isn't the point, when I look at the long shot the yellow bricks seem to be parallelogram rather than oblong, there's a zig zag effect created by the pattern in the bricks.

Is it an optical illusion ( to the eye ) or a is it the camera, I was wondering if the effect I see is caused by the regular pattern in the same way as the other examples posted?
03-19-2009, 02:25 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lloydy Quote
The camera shake isn't the point, when I look at the long shot the yellow bricks seem to be parallelogram rather than oblong, there's a zig zag effect created by the pattern in the bricks.

Is it an optical illusion ( to the eye ) or a is it the camera, I was wondering if the effect I see is caused by the regular pattern in the same way as the other examples posted?
That has nothing to do with moiré, as the structures are by far too large to cause such a moiré pattern. You have, I would think, simple perspective distortion, as the brick wall isn't parallel to the sensor plane.

I can now see the zigzagging, you mean. I am not sure what caused it, but to me it looks as whether you shot through a window and that overlays slight reflections onto the image. Perhaps I am completely wrong. It could also be completely out of focus foreground objects, i.e. part of the vegettion, direvctly in front of the camera lens? Hard to say, without further info, but sure no moiré. But you are correct, that it is not a simple illusion.

Ben
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