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03-17-2009, 08:23 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by steve500 Quote
The lack of "mirror-up" bothers me...
I don't get this. The K20D certainly has mirror lockup. Did I miss something?

03-17-2009, 08:26 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by jct us101 Quote
You continue to amaze me.
This time I think Rice has a point. Most people do prefer handling the lens before purchase, or borrowing from their friends, rather than take a "gamble" online. Of course this goes back to the whole "using shops as showroom" thing.

Ricehigh often makes valid points but imho they're almost always flamebaits.

As to the op, I have nothing much to add other than what ppl here have mentioned. I think if I were to switch to Nikon, I'd miss the beautiful Pentax colors. I like Nikon colors over Canon but Pentax is just something else imo. (especially with my 50/1.4 tak! On nikon and canon bodies that lens dont look quite the same imo) But this is quite subjective of course ")
03-17-2009, 08:36 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by steve500 Quote
... I start to feel a little sick wondering if I should switch to a nikon D90 body... I don't have much for lenses for my pentax other than a few basics, but seeing the large and very easy to get variety for nikon just standing there in my face teases me. The D90 body is sweet, maybe not built as well as the K20D but surely feels and seems like it outperforms EASY.

Suggestions?

...
Talk me out of switching to nikon. What am I giving up? Don't flame me
The D90 is a very fine camera - but if you're going to switch from the K20D, I'd suggest going to the D300 - it has AF adjustment (like the K20D) and is able to meter with all of the older MF AI-S lenses.

The D90 actually has slightly better IQ than the D300, unless you want to try to take advantage of the 14-bit raw capture. (which could be considered more of a marketing push than a usable advantage - similar to the megapixel race in a way, but even less important.)

I bought a D90 (vs D300), because I wasn't interested in completely replacing the K20D, only supplementing it with the one real advantage the D90 has over the K20D - AF speed. I was going to go crazy, keep all my Pentax lenses and get the Nikon 17-55 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 VR + more, but reality (and taxes) bit, and now I have a pared-down Pentax kit + a more modest Nikon kit.


QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
Do this.

Imagine you just bought a Nikon or Canon. Put together a list of the first 4 lenses you would want for that camera. Then check out the price.

I run 2 systems right now (Canon and Pentax)
For Pentax I have
16-50; 43ltd; 50-135 and when I sell my 300/2.8 i'll get a DA*200/d.8

For Canon I have
The lenses I want for Canon include 24-70; 70-200IS; 85/1.2; 135/2; 16-35

When you compare these two systems there are some things to notice.
1. only one of the Canon lenses I want has image stabilization. So I can shoot my 50-135 in about the same amount of available light as the 85/1.2 canon unless I have a tripod with me (I know there are other advantages to large aperture but shutter speed is a priority for me)
2. The Canon lenses cost an average of about $1400 while the Pentax averages about $700. Take that extra $700/lens and multiply it by 4 (average number of lenses in a decent kit) and it is almost $3000 cheaper to get into Pentax
3. The Canon lenses that are comparable in price to Pentax are nothing special. For example the Canon 85/1.8 is a good lens but I prefer the Pentax 77mm.
4. The quality of images varies from brand to brand. I don't mean quality as in better or worse I just mean all the attributes of the images put together. I think my Canon lenses are sharper than my Pentax but I still seem to always prefer the Pentax images when I take them side by side. This is why I have stuck with Pentax while I have added Canon to my kit for the special qualities it brings. If you're thinking Nikon do some side-by-side shooting with one. Don't do brick wall tests or anything like that. Find a nice garden on a nice day and find some flowers with strong colors, park benches with strong lines high dynamic range shots with lots of sky etc. I'd also try some low-light portraiture to test ISO and focus precision. Only then will you know if its a good idea for you to make a move.

Bottom line though - Pentax has a very complete lens lineup at the moment up to 300/4. Just because a lot of stores don't stock a lot of Pentax glass doesn't mean its not made. The * and Ltd series compare well next to any other series of lenses on the market for quality.

One more thing. Once every month or two a bunch of photographers around here get together for an hour or 2 to shoot together. The only camera that has yet to make an appearance (afaik) is Sony. Its interesting to compare shots with everyone - and as for your complaint about AWB we've actually found the Pentax at least as good if not better than most.

If you do make the move I'd stay clear of the D90 and go for the D300.

Good post. Look at te lenses you'd want to get, price them out, and try to figure out if that gets you something better than you could get with Pentax.

And yes, AWB on the K20D is pretty great - did you mean Tungsten WB? That's not so great, but it's not so great in any other body either, really.


.
03-17-2009, 08:40 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Pentax needs to start marketing their cameras in the USA.
Hoya buys full page ads for their HD filters. I haven't seen a single ad for Pentax cameras or lenses in any recent magazine. Did Hoya simply cannibalize Pentax for their medical imagining division?

03-17-2009, 08:42 PM   #35
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Re: Brand Colours..

QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
As to the op, I have nothing much to add other than what ppl here have mentioned. I think if I were to switch to Nikon, I'd miss the beautiful Pentax colors. I like Nikon colors over Canon but Pentax is just something else imo. (especially with my 50/1.4 tak! On nikon and canon bodies that lens dont look quite the same imo) But this is quite subjective of course ")
Canon colours are "faulty" mostly because some of their lenses, but not of the body (if one knows how to set up it). Still, many Canon lenses are quite "colour correct" (e.g. my 24-105L and the cheapo 50/1.8), although they are not as good as the best Pentaxes.

See my recent example below and comments on the "Canon colors" are welcome:-

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: Some New Macro Photos to Share (DFA 100 on 5D)
03-17-2009, 08:46 PM   #36
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03-17-2009, 08:48 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
I have both the EF 85/1.8 and the Pentax FA*85/1.4.

I use both lenses on my full frame 5D for quite some times now. What I would conclude are:

1. EF 85 is an okay lens with good resolution and smooth bokeh, but with no character!

2. Its colour rendition by no means can match the Pentax. Skin tones are not as nice, neither greens are as "green" as the Pentax ;-D
I actually mean as "Natural" for the green. Pentax's green is far more natural! (whilst Canon's could be more exaggerated)
03-17-2009, 08:50 PM   #38
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I don't know what it is about the 5D but it seems that that body doesnt exhibit the same "canon color" (be it bad or good) as the low end ones, and I actually quite like the 5D results. But can the OP afford it? I personally can't Please take this with a large grain of salt as I've only seen flickr stuff and have not handled the camera myself...

Oh and the while we're on the topic of white balance... I personally hate the k100D tungsten, one of my few gripes about pentax, really. But I heard the K200D and K20D is already better in this regard?

03-17-2009, 08:56 PM   #39
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Buy equipment on a "glove fits" basis, not a brand basis. Check out individual camera models regardless of the badge it carries.

Being loyal to a particular brand defeats the goal of getting what suits you best. My K10D suits me best because I already have lenses for a previous PENTAX SLR, and it compared favourably pricewise against other brands' models with the features I needed.
03-17-2009, 08:56 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I don't know what it is about the 5D but it seems that that body doesnt exhibit the same "canon color" (be it bad or good) as the low end ones, and I actually quite like the 5D results. But can the OP afford it? I personally can't Please take this with a large grain of salt as I've only seen flickr stuff and have not handled the camera myself...
Load or choose a proper Picture Style (colour mode/tone curve) and problem will be solved (almost).

I do agree that the 5D colour rendition is of a different class, still, as it should be.

QuoteQuote:
Oh and the while we're on the topic of white balance... I personally hate the k100D tungsten, one of my few gripes about pentax, really. But I heard the K200D and K20D is already better in this regard?
The K100D AWB is not only wrong under tungsten (and so do almost all DSLRs), it could be wrong under overcast or after the sunset (very blueish).
03-18-2009, 02:06 AM   #41
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I like my Pentax gear, but I despair about how long the brand will continue to survive. In Australia, you hardly ever see Pentax DSLRs advertised. Too often in general photograhpy forums you see a topic like:

"Which Canon/Nikon should I buy?"
or
"Which Canon/Nikon/Sony should I buy?"

but very rarely indeed is Pentax included in the posed question. It seems to fall completely outside the beginner's worldview.

So that leaves the enthusiasts. As an enthusiast who has been mauled many times in the past by never choosing the popular market leader product, but always choosing the "better" (based on either technical considerations or "bang-for-the-buck"), less-popular product, such as Northgate OmniKey 102 keyboard, Sony Profeel monitor, Betamax, Betamax Hi-Fi & SuperBetamax video recorders, Sony PCM-F1/SL-F1 portable PCM Digital Audio encoder/betamax combo, Sony/Sharp MD & Hi-MD mini-disk recorders, Xitel Storm Platinum (Aureal Vortex 2) & Hercules Game Theater soundcards and IBM OS/2 1.3, 2.0, 2.1, Warp 3, Warp 4, I well realise that the "better" product may well fail to attract enough support in the marketplace to survive.

Dan.

Last edited by dosdan; 03-18-2009 at 01:30 PM.
03-18-2009, 03:16 AM   #42
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Today the DSLR is the FILM.

I chose Pentax simply because it's the Fuji Velvia of dslrs and had the best viewfinder.

These two aspects coupled with onboard SR and 100% weather sealing were absolutely necessary for me.

Next for colour accuracy and damn fine lenses = Olympus

I would have bought if it wasn't for a)Tunnel Vision viewfinder b) 4/3 sensor (was bored with square format)

If Pentax fell off the map - I would keep on using my camera until it fell apart then start the whole buying/choosing process again.

d
03-18-2009, 03:55 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by steve500 Quote
I start to feel a little sick wondering if I should switch to a nikon D90 body... I don't have much for lenses for my pentax other than a few basics, but seeing the large and very easy to get variety for nikon just standing there in my face teases me. The D90 body is sweet, maybe not built as well as the K20D but surely feels and seems like it outperforms EASY.
- it "seems" to outperform the K20?
- D90 body is "sweet" - but "not built as well" as the K20?

What do you really want and need?

That is the only question you need to answer. Do you need really long and fast lenses (300/2.8 - 400/2.8 etc.), than you HAVE to switch to Nikon or Canon.

Do you often(!) shoot fast moving sports or action - than you could be better served with Nikon and Canon IF you invest the accordingly necessary fast glass.

Do you need the (very limited) HD video capabilities - than you go for ther D90.

Do you dislike the K20's menues, buttons and dials - than you should TRY a Nikon - perhaps it feels better for you.

You see, the point is, you only wrote about your feelings, no hard facts, why you would consider switching. ASo it is nearly impossible to "talk you out" of anything.

One thing is clear to me: To really gain ANY advantage out of a Canon or Nikon camera, one needs to invest heavily(!) into lenses, which you may not find in the Pentax portfolio. I always find discussions ridiculous, when people complain about the poor Pentax performance versus superior CaNikon cameras, but then use kit lenses and other crap as the basis for comparisson.

There can be found a couple of hard facts, which will force a photog to use a camera system. But these advantages always come at a price. If one switches or buys into systems for cheap, one does not gain any advantage.

Also, from your post I read, that the advantages of the D90 seem to be more perceived than experienced. Rent the Nikon equipment you consider for buying over a long weekend and try it, before you buy it. After that you can make an informed decision.

Ben
03-18-2009, 04:00 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote
Did Hoya simply cannibalize Pentax for their medical imagining division?

Yes... unfortunately.

But Pentax is having a great come-back in Europe (and also in Japan, I think), which gives me hope, that Hoya will not shut-down the camera division any time soon. They need to get rid of those parts of the camera business, which are really unsuccesful, like the Pentax P&S cameras, but seem to realize the potential of the DSLR market. Obviously investment capabilities are much more limited than CaNikon's, which explains the slower progress of the whole system, but it keeps growing...

Ben

Last edited by Ben_Edict; 03-18-2009 at 09:04 AM.
03-18-2009, 05:05 AM   #45
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I have Pentax glass coming out my ears. The world is awash in an ocean of fine Pentax glass.

Of course, if one insists on going to the store and buying brand-new stuff hot off the assembly line then I can see where there might be room for disillusionment.

Personally, I don't get all the hubbub over the new stuff.
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