Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-23-2009, 12:11 PM   #1
Forum Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 60
In Camera HDR

I am a member of another forum, as many of you probably are as well. It is a small forum based out of Canada. We have been in a small discussion about HDR and how to explain it. I know that the K200 and K20 have the extended dynamic range ability, but is this true HDR? I was under the impression that no dslr yet offered a true HDR ability. However, another member mentioned that this function is HDR. I figured I would ask here since this is the best place for Pentax knowledge. I own a K10d and figured the K10 would have this option before the k200, but I have been corrected. If these camera really do produce true HDR images right from the camera, besides tone mapping, I find it to be another reason to chalk a point up for Pentax. Also, another option Nikon and Canon need to address before Pentax really walks away as the winner.

Pentax is the winner imo. I really would like to be proven wrong here, but feel that isnt the case.

03-23-2009, 12:36 PM   #2
Forum Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 60
Original Poster
Ok, Ive already been corrected. Way to go Pentax. I love Pentax but usually do not keep up on the information as Im usually out in the field with the camera. Maybe someone out there wants to trade their K20 for my K10? hahaha
03-23-2009, 02:04 PM   #3
Veteran Member
pentaxmz's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 647
QuoteOriginally posted by jjeling Quote
Ok, Ive already been corrected. Way to go Pentax. I love Pentax but usually do not keep up on the information as Im usually out in the field with the camera. Maybe someone out there wants to trade their K20 for my K10? hahaha
By this posting, it almost seems as though someone told you that the K20D can do true HDR inside the camera. If so, that is almost entirely false.

I say 'almost' because it really depends on how someone defines true HDR. After all HDR means High Dynamic Range, and by that, if your expectations are low, the K20D does offer Expanded Dynamic Range BUT it is by no means nearly as good as what most people consider HDR. It is simply impossible for any CCD or CMOS image (AFAIK) to capture HDR with one single exposure.

It is important to remember that what the K20D is doing is nothing more 'magical' than what you can do with a RAW image in post processing. The K20D is simply changing the brightness of pixels that are either too dark or too bright. Please don't misunderstand, the Expanded Dynamic Range feature on the K20 is super-fantastic when you are in a difficult lighting situation and you require ready-to-go photos.

On the other hand, 'true' HDR is represented by shooting several individual photos, that are exposed for different subjects in the same scene. Or, in other words, several different exposures, both -EV and +EV. The K20D's Expanded Dynamic Range is a poor substitute for that.

BTW, HDR isn't a new idea. It actually goes back to the beginning of photography. The idea is simply to make the camera see what the human eye sees. I was doing (or attempting) HDR 20 years ago with an enlarger and dodging or stacked negs/pos with cut out sections and balsum. Digital photography and good software (e.g. Photomatix Pro) just makes HDR a million times easier.

For really nice examples of earlier HDR, have a look at Ansel Adams' B+W photography. Whether it is color or B+W, HDR is stunning!


==============

Please vote for my baby niece: Baby Stages Photo Contest

Last edited by pentaxmz; 03-23-2009 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Grammatical error :-(
03-23-2009, 02:09 PM   #4
Veteran Member
rburgoss's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 972
The HDR feature is not a real HDR proccessing. This is an "after" filter that you can apply to any picture already shot in camera. What the camera does is that it compresses shadows and highlights to some extent (amount can be chosen or "dialed" as you wish), by blowing dark areas and burning highlights, in some attempt to bring out detail on both extremes. I personally do not like the results.

Real HDR involves at least two frames. You can try Photomatix Basic for free. It does a pretty good job. HDR photo software & plugin - Tone Mapping, Exposure Fusion & HDR Imaging for photography

03-23-2009, 02:21 PM   #5
Veteran Member
pentaxmz's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 647
QuoteOriginally posted by rburgoss Quote
The HDR feature is not a real HDR proccessing. This is an "after" filter that you can apply to any picture already shot in camera. What the camera does is that it compresses shadows and highlights to some extent (amount can be chosen or "dialed" as you wish), by blowing dark areas and burning highlights, in some attempt to bring out detail on both extremes. I personally do not like the results.

Real HDR involves at least two frames. You can try Photomatix Basic for free. It does a pretty good job. HDR photo software & plugin - Tone Mapping, Exposure Fusion & HDR Imaging for photography
I really like Photomatix Pro (well worth the $99). But how does it compare to other HDR applications?


==============

Please vote for my baby niece: Baby Stages Photo Contest (photo taken with a Pentax)
03-23-2009, 03:15 PM   #6
Veteran Member
Venturi's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,639
It's worth noting that you *can* do basic HDR in-camera with both the K10D and K20D. By using the multiple-exposure mode of the cameras you can stack multiple frames (2 to 9), manually bracketed +/- EV and let the firmware do its "Auto EV Adjust" to average them all together into a single shot.

There's no tone mapping involved or frame alignment to account for subject movement, and certainly not perfect but for knocking around it does a pretty decent job.
03-23-2009, 03:51 PM   #7
Forum Member
ManWithCamera's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 87
That's interesting. I'm going to have to give that a try. I have only used the multi-exposure mode of my K10D once -- to simulate a longer exposure and blur the water in a stream. I had stacked a two-stop ND filter and a polarizer, stopped down to f/22 and set the ISO to 100, and yet I'd get blown highlights with an exposure over 4/10 of a second. So I used the multi-exposure feature to combine 6 images -- each shot at 4/10 second (simulating a longer exposure using a darker ND filter). It worked very well.

I hadn't thought to try combining manually bracketed images. I'm definitely going to experiment with that (at least until I can afford Photomatix).
03-23-2009, 04:54 PM   #8
Veteran Member
pentaxmz's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 647
QuoteOriginally posted by ManWithCamera Quote
That's interesting. I'm going to have to give that a try. I have only used the multi-exposure mode of my K10D once -- to simulate a longer exposure and blur the water in a stream. I had stacked a two-stop ND filter and a polarizer, stopped down to f/22 and set the ISO to 100, and yet I'd get blown highlights with an exposure over 4/10 of a second. So I used the multi-exposure feature to combine 6 images -- each shot at 4/10 second (simulating a longer exposure using a darker ND filter). It worked very well.
Excellent! This is not easy to accomplish, due to the difficulty of perfect registration (even on the best and most stable of tripods).

QuoteOriginally posted by ManWithCamera Quote
I hadn't thought to try combining manually bracketed images. I'm definitely going to experiment with that (at least until I can afford Photomatix).
There is a free version of Photomatix available.

==============================
Please vote for my baby niece: Baby Stages Photo Contest (photo taken with a Pentax)

03-23-2009, 05:06 PM   #9
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In the present
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,870
QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
I say 'almost' because it really depends on how someone defines true HDR. After all HDR means High Dynamic Range, and by that, if your expectations are low, the K20D does offer Expanded Dynamic Range
Leaving it right there, I'd have to say that any point and shoot 35mm film camera will have MORE in camera HDR than any digital camera with which I am currently acquainted!

Just a little point of order for all who would accept the concept of expanded dynamic range as in camera HDR (as that term is generally understood)...

And of course I know that does not mean you pentaxmz...

Edit:

>> It's worth noting that you *can* do basic HDR in-camera with both the K10D and K20D. By using the multiple-
>> exposure mode of the cameras you can stack multiple frames (2 to 9), manually bracketed +/- EV and let the
>> firmware do its "Auto EV Adjust" to average them all together into a single shot.

Heh. Now eating words... That is interesting Venturi. Now that you mention it, I realize it can be done in camera and will give this a try next time I am out. Thanks for that tip... one of those face-palm moments... thanks!


woof!
03-23-2009, 08:25 PM   #10
Veteran Member
Venturi's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,639
QuoteOriginally posted by ManWithCamera Quote
That's interesting. I'm going to have to give that a try. [...]
I hadn't thought to try combining manually bracketed images. I'm definitely going to experiment with that (at least until I can afford Photomatix).
QuoteOriginally posted by woof Quote
Edit:

Heh. Now eating words... That is interesting Venturi. Now that you mention it, I realize it can be done in camera and will give this a try next time I am out. Thanks for that tip... one of those face-palm moments... thanks!
My one and only attempt at it - had my K10D for about 3 weeks and there was some buzz on the forum here about it so I decided to give it a go. First shot is a single frame to baseline, second is the "in-camera HDR". IIRC, I did 3 exposures -2, 0, +2 EV.

Warning: Bad Photography follows!!!

Last edited by Venturi; 05-07-2011 at 11:07 PM.
03-23-2009, 08:26 PM   #11
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 205
Does anyone know if the K200D has "auto EV adjust"?
i cant find it in the manual anywhere. maybe its called something different?
03-23-2009, 08:30 PM   #12
Veteran Member
Venturi's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,639
I don't have a K200, but on the K10/K20 it's a checkbox under the Rec. Menu -> Multiple Exposure menu item.
03-23-2009, 11:59 PM   #13
Senior Member




Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: west coast USA
Posts: 206
The K200D doesn't have the multiple-exposure feature they're talking about, only exposure bracketing.

The multiple-exposure mode on the K10D/K20D has the camera take several images in a row, then blend them all together into one result image. IIRC there are two major options for this:
- Blending at the same exposure (average, this is "auto EV adjust") in order to get a "long" exposure without actually letting in that much light. You could use this to blur water in bright daylight without needing an ND filter to let you keep the shutter open that long. It can also reduce shadow noise in low-light scene. Moving a single object in an otherwise static scene would create a "ghost" effect.
- Blending with combined exposure (additive), as if you had a higher ISO to begin with. I can't think of a good use offhand, but there'd be a bit less noise in the result.

I've never had a chance to play with one of these cameras, so I'm only going by what I've seen from others.
03-24-2009, 12:11 AM   #14
Veteran Member
pentaxmz's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 647
QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
My one and only attempt at it - had my K10D for about 3 weeks and there was some buzz on the forum here about it so I decided to give it a go. First shot is a single frame to baseline, second is the "in-camera HDR". IIRC, I did 3 exposures -2, 0, +2 EV.

Warning: Bad Photography follows!!!
Your examples appear the same.

But neither is an example of HDR. If this was a HDR photo, there would be few to no dark shadow areas. In this photo, plenty of the background is underexposed and part of the tree's trunk and the lights are over exposed.
03-24-2009, 03:34 AM   #15
Veteran Member
mickey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Japan
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,073
This isn't an HDR photo, but some friends have commented that it looks like it...one friend even thought it was HDR.

What do you think?

I did it all in-camera on my K10D.


Last edited by mickey; 03-24-2009 at 06:19 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
ability, camera, dslr, forum, hdr, k200, option, pentax, photography, winner
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
In camera HDR with the Pentax K-7 Urs Pentax DSLR Discussion 14 08-10-2009 09:39 AM
Just Shot Gods Patch. K7's In-camera HDR bentax Post Your Photos! 4 07-21-2009 03:22 AM
K-7 In-camera HDR PentaxPoke Pentax DSLR Discussion 9 07-14-2009 08:03 AM
HDR Software - Dynamic-Photo HDR mithrandir Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 03-03-2009 08:46 PM
HDR Question ?....K20D Review - What Digital Camera magazine May 2008 (Issue 135) Confused Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 04-25-2008 06:44 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:47 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top