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05-06-2009, 11:32 AM   #196
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sveinmb: close, but not quite. i would say, in fewer words, that all pentaxians are really unfortunate souls trapped into this flawed and horrendously painfull "pentax machine". the reason why they find it so hard to get away, and so few indeed do, is still being studied and cannot be explained yet, but observation of the phenomenon shows that most will make a fatal mistake at some point and chose pentax, after which all hell breaks loose. salvation is just around the corner, with nikon or canon, or even sony, perhaps olympus, but the monster has a strange effect on it's crowd, and few ever get away.

i am sad for you, sven(?), i really am, you are one of those unfortunate souls, and seems far from seeing the light, you still try to find ways to defend your "choice" (nothing but an unfortunate mistake, no need to be ashamed, one should just move on and tell others what not to do, in the hope they will not fall in the same swamp), you still try to fool yourself that the others are wrong and your choice is okay (and that you, indeed, have the right to your own choice), tell me something, if the pentax af is okay, why do all the pro sports shooters use canon or nikon? are they all mad?

you are doomed, we all are.. we should rename this forum "the forum of doom and damnation".

05-06-2009, 11:44 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by sveinmb Quote
Wow.. just... wow

So now I'm a nazi ?
Nonononononono.
You have it backwards.
An Izan.

Seriously though, and as one of the people who is right in the middle of the whole Pentax pull your shorts up brigade, changing systems isn't an option for a lot of people, myself included.
So, while the apologisti among us tire of us saying that we want a better Pentax (I have a hard time finding fault with anyone who wants a better tool to use), there are those among us (myself being one of them) that get really tired of being told to go to our rooms without supper like as if we are a bunch of sniveling children, simply because we want a higher class body that matches the performance of our higher class lenses.

The people who say "change systems" are essentially trying to stifle any discussion regarding desirable system improvements.
If you want to compare this to a political movement, guess which one it is closest to?

And if you think Pentax AF is fast, put a new DA*55/1.4 onto your K20.
I can actually fall asleep waiting for it to focus.
05-06-2009, 11:51 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
So, while the apologisti among us tire of us saying that we want a better Pentax (I have a hard time finding fault with anyone who wants a better tool to use), there are those among us (myself being one of them) that get really tired of being told to go to our rooms without supper like as if we are a bunch of sniveling children, simply because we want a higher class body that matches the performance of our higher class lenses.
Well said.
05-06-2009, 11:56 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by sveinmb Quote
I just don't get it. I just don't get why I even bother to visit pentaxforums. I've only been a member for a short time, but this place is so full of s***, it's absolutely mind-boggling. What kind of sick pleasure do people get from repeating the mantra over and over again about how Pentax has inferior autofocusing, useless metering and the speed of a dead turtle?

I just don't get why people can't change brands and leave us inferior hobbyist photographers alone with our miserable cameras. I've probably read a thousand times here about people that have outgrown their Pentax in a couple of weeks and need to get a 5D, D700, D3, 1D, D3X or 1DS, because.. and i quote "the camera is holding me back"!

You know.. I have a great respect for extremely talented people who need better gear to be able to fully create their masterpieces. I think it's awful that so many talents seems to go to waste because of the obvious problems with Pentax cameras. Just think what could have happened to Michael Schumacher if the only car he would ever drive was a Ford Focus. He'd never be the formula1 champion legend! The Focus would be brilliant for the average Joe driving to work though. Insert any very skilled talent in that analogy and their weapon of choice - the result would be somehow similar.

I don't know what the reason is that we get all these wasted talents around here. Surely there must be a way for them to get their superior camera that will ensure they'll get the results that corresponds to the talent they have inside them. Could it be an idea to start a donation at pentaxforums for founding better cameras or those in need? I'm sure if we all put a few bucks in this we'll be able to help a great talent to get his or her 5D every now an then?

I feel a bit guilty as a Pentaxian that I'm supporting a system that is holding down so many people and actually provoking all these repeated prayers for help. Prayers for better AF, better metering an faster shooting modes. It shouldn't be like this. Everyone who wanted it should have their superior Canon or Nikon - it's not fair! We need to sort this out asap or Pentax might possibly destroy a whole generation of talented photographers. There must be a way to help them get another and better brand of camera before it is too late !

So what you are saying is that if someone finds something inferior with a Pentax camera compared to another brands similar offers they should just quietly switch brands and leave all the Pentax people alone? Can you see how absurd that is? What exactly is wrong with people wanting the brand they like to be competitive in certain areas with other makers?

I understand it can be frustrating to read the same types of posts over again but guess what, telling someone to essentially shutup and just switch brands isn't going to make them go away. It is only going to make them shout their dislikes even louder. Telling someone they are wrong does the same thing.

Look at this thread, it was supposed to be a thread complaining about the complainers but now has become one of the longest running threads on the AF issue there is. If the OP had never posted this thread then we all wouldnt' be sucked into it like we are.

Oh, and your complete sarcastic, anyone who can't get an action shot with a Pentax is a crappy photog comments aren't really appreciated, at least by me. I would like the Pentax bodies to have better AF features so I guess I suck, don't know how to use my equipment and should pick up another hobby?


John

05-06-2009, 12:09 PM   #200
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Sigh...Daniel...the car analogy is not the point is what I've been trying to say. Go back and read my replies again. I'm done w/ this thread.
And for the record, Pentax AF is fine for me for what I do now. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate other cameras pros (and cons because I do not see through rose colored glasses).

p.s., IMHO, half those heron pictures are out of unsharp...

Last edited by kenyee; 05-06-2009 at 12:14 PM.
05-06-2009, 01:21 PM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Nonononononono.
You have it backwards.
An Izan.
Sorry, my bad, I guess I read it a bit too fast then.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
changing systems isn't an option for a lot of people, myself included.
Why, in all honesty? The only possible explanation would be if you're somehow connected to Pentax and are by contract not allowed to use another brand?

The question of economy comes to mind, but if you're asking for a Pentax with similar specs to a more expensive body from Canon or Nikon, you just can't expect it to be any cheaper as said by a lot of others here.

It can't be de lenses either, can it? The best pentax lenses tend to be the old manual K-series or even the Super/SMC-Takumars. They should both work just fine in completely manual mode on for example a Canon. You'll might have to change the bayonet on the K like others has done before you, but it is quite possible to do so. That said both Canon and Nikon have some very very very good lenses in their lineup that will be a good replacement for most Pentax lenses. The 50-135 is the modern gem, and also available as a Tokina for both other brands I think?

I'm not trying to be rude or make fun of you right now. I'm being serious. I'd like to know what exactly is keeping you and a lot of others from switching system. I think a lot of other visitors here would be interested to know that as well.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The people who say "change systems" are essentially trying to stifle any discussion regarding desirable system improvements.
If you want to compare this to a political movement, guess which one it is closest to?
Do you really think that all this nagging in public forums will help your case and give you a new camera with this and that specs? If all those that have serious trouble with the current products of Pentax just wrote to their customer service and told it to them directly, I think it would be a lot more efficient. Call up your local Pentax dealer and tell them how disappointed you are. Try to pass the information to those who actually can make a change.

I'm not much of a politician, but what would be the best effort to try an make a change in the way they collect taxes - call your local politician representing you in the senate, or to post hundreds of complaints on online forums telling everyone the government is robbing you?

The way it is now this constant complaining in forums just make the Pentax community look really bad for new potential customers. If you tell everyone you meet that Pentax is the worst performing camera brand, there will eventually be no new customers and Pentax as a brand will no longer exist.

QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
And if you think Pentax AF is fast, put a new DA*55/1.4 onto your K20.
I can actually fall asleep waiting for it to focus.
Well, you can put a slow focusing lens on a Canon or Nikon and fall asleep as well? The fact is that there are huge differences in focusing times depending upon lens design. I think my DA40 has a pretty fast focusing compared to my FA50. The DA70 is faster than the FA77. You can't just blame the body or AF circuits when the lens as a long focus throw. But I'm pretty sure that Pentax AF is the slowest of them all on average. I know after hearing the same story a million times.

QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
So what you are saying is that if someone finds something inferior with a Pentax camera compared to another brands similar offers they should just quietly switch brands and leave all the Pentax people alone? Can you see how absurd that is? What exactly is wrong with people wanting the brand they like to be competitive in certain areas with other makers?
I don't think that's absurd at all! We have freedom of choice. If we find out that another product better suits our needs, we can just change to that other product. I happens with consumer products every day. People change to other brands of cars, televisions, computers etc, so why not camera ? How many owners of a Dell spend nearly every day , year after year and complain about how much better the screen is on a HP? They simply get out and by that HP instead.

QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
I understand it can be frustrating to read the same types of posts over again but guess what, telling someone to essentially shutup and just switch brands isn't going to make them go away. It is only going to make them shout their dislikes even louder. Telling someone they are wrong does the same thing.
So basically this forum can't be saved then? I think we're well over the point where there are more posts about how much better other brands are, then there are positive posts about experiences as a Pentaxian and how much wonderful shots we've made. If there is no way to make people "shut up and leave", then there is pretty much nothing left for pentaxforums. It's definitely not going to be a "Friendly Pentax Discussion Community" as the logo says.

I know I'm not the only one here that is completely fed up with all this negativity. As long as this keeps on along the same line the next person will eventually break down and write even uglier replies then me. And then the next one and the next one until there are just complainers left and one unsellable camera brand.

QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
Oh, and your complete sarcastic, anyone who can't get an action shot with a Pentax is a crappy photog comments aren't really appreciated, at least by me. I would like the Pentax bodies to have better AF features so I guess I suck, don't know how to use my equipment and should pick up another hobby?
Well yeah? I am sarcastic. Some think of this af-"issue" as follows: If person A needs faster AF to make the same shot as person B just did with the slow one - is it the cameras fault? Whenever someone tries to say that they don't agree and find it fully useable as-is you guys just bash them with how wrong they are, and how their images is shot the wrong way. Like there is not millions of running children captured just brilliantly with this crappy AF through the years?

I'm pretty sure a very good photographer could do fantastic shots of fast moving objects with slow or no af at all. I also think a lot of people @ pentaxforums could become a lot better photographers if they spent more time behind the camera then they do complaining. I'm not speaking of you in particular.

Oh and by the way. If you've ever read the What-the-duck comics you'll know that "you suck" is the first defence from anyone with a camera strapped around their neck.
05-06-2009, 01:33 PM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by sveinmb Quote

Btw. as we're all into cars in this thread. I'm currently considering buying a second hand Porsche Boxster.. Now how insanely STUPID would I look if I instead buy a Mazda MX-5, join the forums of a Mazda owners club and each and every damn day post that I feel I've outgrown my MX-5. Mazda should make a 3.2 liter 6 cylinder version because the Porsche Boxster is far superior i both straight line speed and cornering. You know - if Mazda don't release a 300hp+ version of the MX-5 soon I'll have to jump ship and buy a Porsche Boxster!!

But I won't - I'll just keep on posting every damn day at the Mazda Owners Club forum that the Porsche Boxster is faster and corners better!

Beautiful

Do they think they are higher grade Mazda club member as only they know how good Porsche Boxster is.

That tells us a lot


Daniel
05-06-2009, 01:47 PM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by sveinmb Quote

But I won't - I'll just keep on posting every damn day at the Mazda Owners Club forum that the Porsche Boxster is faster and corners better!
Or I have just bought a Portsche Boxster and I go back to Mazda forum to say how great a choice I have made. And if Mazda owner ever talk about, I would say I have driven both and there is no doubt that Boxster is superior. And if only Mazda can shape up or it will go belly up.

I can see that we should listen to whoever who have upgraded from Pentax (to another camp).

I think I am kind of stubborn and upgrading my gear happens to be of lower priority to me than upgrading my skill.


Daniel


Last edited by danielchtong; 05-06-2009 at 01:55 PM.
05-06-2009, 01:54 PM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by sveinmb Quote
Well yeah? I am sarcastic. Some think of this af-"issue" as follows: If person A needs faster AF to make the same shot as person B just did with the slow one - is it the cameras fault? Whenever someone tries to say that they don't agree and find it fully useable as-is you guys just bash them with how wrong they are, and how their images is shot the wrong way. Like there is not millions of running children captured just brilliantly with this crappy AF through the years?

I'm pretty sure a very good photographer could do fantastic shots of fast moving objects with slow or no af at all. I also think a lot of people @ pentaxforums could become a lot better photographers if they spent more time behind the camera then they do complaining. I'm not speaking of you in particular.
So what about those people who can make the shots but still want faster AF? I can make shots of BIFs and Dog Agility ect with my Pentax gear but I would still like faster/predictive AF. Why don't I switch completely?.. because I love everything else about the Pentax system. I love the weather sealing, cost/performance ratio, lenses, ergonomics ect ect. I picked up a used 40D for two reasons.. one the AF is better and it is easier to get the Dog Agility shots that I'm starting to take a lot of and second, the Pentax mount equivalents of the Canon 70-200 lens left something to be desired.

Again this thread wasn't started by a whiny "I want a faster AF" complainer, this thread was started by someone like you who doesn't want to hear it anymore. If you don't want to hear it then either respond positively or ignore it and the number of these threads will go WAY down.

Are there people out there who will get crappy shots with no matter what camera they use, sure there are. But you can't lump all of us together. I've never started an AF thread personally because I know the limitations of my gear but it just irks me when someone tells me I have to switch brands because I happen to want the Pentax brand to move forward and stay competitive.

And here are some of the actions shots that I have gotten with my Pentax gear as I feel like I need to justify why I can wish for better AF now. ... and no I don't profess to have the best action shots out there :P

















05-06-2009, 06:02 PM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by sveinmb Quote
I just don't get why people can't change brands ...
Cost. I've already got pentax lenses I want to use. Pretty simple really.
05-06-2009, 06:30 PM   #206
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Ditto

Me too... I would have switched at the time of the K20 purchase but I have too much invested in glass.

But since my 401K is worthless now and I no longer need to save for retirement, since I will never be able to retire...
I can now afford to switch systems if the new Pentax is not a Paradigm Shift in AF reality...
05-06-2009, 06:31 PM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
Cost. I've already got pentax lenses I want to use. Pretty simple really.
Well, c'mon, you can always hack them up and stick on a Canon... oh yeah, they won't autofocus but a Real Photographer will know how to manual focus everything anyway including shooting sports because you should only take one shot, that one PERFECT shot, and not blast away at stupidly fast speeds because no REAL pro would ever do that and so on and so forth.

As for the Miata analogy... don't forget the hordes of Miata owners who would be posting examples of corners where the Miata went through just as fast as the Boxster and therefore the Miata is just as good a performer. Of course, the rest of the course wouldn't be mentioned.

Honestly though, if Pentax released a K30D that had insanely fast AF and killer fps, would the same people be deriding the K30D owners like they do those who spring for Canon or Nikon options for the same reasons?
05-06-2009, 06:41 PM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote

Looks like you are a serious wildlife shooter and if you are to pursue further on the AF wildlife route (and out of the glass ceiling) , the current thinking and approach is to move to Nikon camp with the specialty telelens and D3X.

I said the current thinking is that Nikon seems to be getting a lot of acclaim. In this day and age I do not need to give you all the $ number.

This came from a birdie shooter who has determined to stay with 300mm as I cannot handle the wt of longer lenses (plus tripod). So you see AF is just one part of the equation.

I saw a few fellows in Steve and dpeview forums that have moved to the other camps. And your start in 40D is just a humble beginning if you want to get the state of the art. Those few fellows who tried to save some penny in going for below top rate camera did not do well judging from the images they post. They did not say much though.

That is Ferrari stuff. Or you are going for mid range like say BMW 3 or 5 series.

Daniel
05-06-2009, 06:47 PM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Well, c'mon, you can always hack them up and stick on a Canon... oh yeah, they won't autofocus but a Real Photographer will know how to manual focus everything anyway including shooting sports because you should only take one shot, that one PERFECT shot, and not blast away at stupidly fast speeds because no REAL pro would ever do that and so on and so forth.

As for the Miata analogy... don't forget the hordes of Miata owners who would be posting examples of corners where the Miata went through just as fast as the Boxster and therefore the Miata is just as good a performer. Of course, the rest of the course wouldn't be mentioned.

Honestly though, if Pentax released a K30D that had insanely fast AF and killer fps, would the same people be deriding the K30D owners like they do those who spring for Canon or Nikon options for the same reasons?
No they would be deriding Canon and Nikon for not having Pentax lenses, in body SR and weather sealing.

They would also be complaining about the price.

Some people will never be happy whatever camera they own because all they can see is what it LACKS not what it HAS but they want all the Nikon and Canon features AS WELL for less money than either.

Pentax's biggest mistake was making cheap cameras.
05-06-2009, 06:55 PM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
So what about those people who can make the shots but still want faster AF? I can make shots of BIFs and Dog Agility ect with my Pentax gear but I would still like faster/predictive AF. Why don't I switch completely?.. because I love everything else about the Pentax system.
I wish my girlfriend looked like Michelle Pfieffer, but I love everything ELSE about her...

But I am so unhappy I tell her every day she's ugly.
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