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05-06-2009, 07:01 PM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote


Pentax's biggest mistake was making cheap cameras.
The competiton makes cheap cameras too.

Pentax's biggest mistake is not making mid priced cameras.

I'm expecting this situation to be rectified either later this month or later this summer.

Besides if they didn't make cheap ones ones, what would you be shooting with?

05-06-2009, 07:01 PM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Pentax's biggest mistake was making cheap cameras.
Indeed, and expensive lenses you should add, doesn't make any sense does it? ;-)
05-06-2009, 07:03 PM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
Cost. I've already got pentax lenses I want to use. Pretty simple really.
But you have the wrong camera so what use is that?

Ever heard of eBay? I have had my old FA lenses valued recently and they are worth more than I paid for them.

Sorry I dont buy it. If you were that unhappy you would change, as indeed I would. I have done so 4 times. The only system I have never owned is Olympus.

The grass is a different shade of green but its not any greener. Thats why I dont bother complaining, because I know what I would lose.
05-06-2009, 07:06 PM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
Indeed, and expensive lenses you should add, doesn't make any sense does it? ;-)
Compared to what? Sigma and Tamron?

I should add, in the UK most Sigma lenses are more than Pentax right now. As for Canon, Nikon, Sony and Oly, not even in the same ballpark.


Last edited by *isteve; 05-06-2009 at 07:34 PM.
05-06-2009, 07:22 PM   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The competiton makes cheap cameras too.

Pentax's biggest mistake is not making mid priced cameras.

I'm expecting this situation to be rectified either later this month or later this summer.

Besides if they didn't make cheap ones ones, what would you be shooting with?
Define "mid priced". If its everything between "low" ($400) and "high" ($8000) then its a bit too broad.

Then again, I am all for a more expensive Pentax camera, as long as it has the quality and features to match.

Last edited by *isteve; 05-06-2009 at 07:41 PM.
05-06-2009, 07:32 PM   #216
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On AF

I am probably going to regret even writing this post and have actually promised miself several times that I would not ever again engage in silly AF or 35mm digtal vs. APS-C debates.

Now personally I never found the K10D AF system a liability before adding another system, however I have made a number of discoveries about AF systems during the last 16 Months.

Yes a state of the art AF system like that found in the D3, D700 and D300 is significantly faster and more responsive than any pentax AF system, same goes for the AF system present in the Canon 1DsIII.
But even though the 3 nikon bodies mentioned share the same module there are differences, having shot the D3 for a while the D700 and D300 seemed a little sluggish.

Now the most important thing however with these more advanced AF systems, is the number of options available, they are far more advanced in setup and setup combinations than less advanced systems.

Now with this comes a possibility to tailor the system behavior to your shooting style and subject matter, but also a huge number of cases where you risk to have the system configured wrongly and thus miss more shots than you perhaps would have done with a simpler system.

Now I have never spoken badly about the pentax AF system, nor did I find it lacking before adding a nikon system. I found it workable and OK for what I needed.

Sure enough there are faster and more advanced systems out there and I can understand people here wanting it from Pentax, as I can understand people being perfectly happy with the current system.

My bet is though that we would see just as many people struggling with setting it up as we now have people maxing out the current one.
05-06-2009, 07:56 PM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I wish my girlfriend looked like Michelle Pfieffer, but I love everything ELSE about her...

But I am so unhappy I tell her every day she's ugly.
Yup, because personal relationships are so analogous to electronic consumer equipment.

This also might make more sense if I was starting threads every day complaining about AF. I've never started an AF thread and I almost always take the middle of the road approach that the AF isn't as bad as how it is made out to be but it still isn't as advanced as some of the competition. Again what irks me are people telling me to leave Pentax because I would like to see them advance with the competition.

I'm sorry if I can handle people pointing out differences (negative in this case) about the Pentax system compared to others.

I still finally completely hilarious that this thread started out as a "stop complaining about AF" and is now 15 pages long and mostly complaining about AF. If the OP was able to handle a few people making noise about the AF these 15 pages would never have existed. But because it was a post that incited he got exactly the opposite of what he was looking for. There is a Lesson there, if you want a topic to die out stop discussing it


John
05-06-2009, 08:01 PM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
Yup, because personal relationships are so analogous to electronic consumer equipment.
No, I think he has a point, sometimes you get locked into things because of the difficulty of dumping the accessories, especially when it's been a long relationship.

05-06-2009, 08:03 PM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by OregonJim Quote
Why do people equate 'slower' with 'inferior'? Accuracy is more important than speed, and the speed some people expect does nothing but betray their shooting 'technique'.

Low light AF performance, however, is a completely different issue...
I think accuracy for both cameras is pretty much dead on. Sometimes the fact that my K20D takes longer to focus makes me miss a shot. My old K10D and now my K20D always has to make micro adjustments before getting a good focus tone (doesn't matter what lens I use), but when it does focus its dead on.

QuoteOriginally posted by res3567 Quote
So... do you wanna sell your K20D?

If so how much?

Make it a bragain and I will consider it.
I just got my K20D not too long ago, so I won't be selling it anytime soon. I do have a K10D with kit lens for sale in the classified area .
05-06-2009, 08:07 PM   #220
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Thomas, reasonable as always....

I think Safox viii is actually OK from a mechanical POV, 11 AF points and 9 cross sensors is more than any Canon, Sony or Olympus short of a 1D series camera yet noone complains about e3 or A700 AF. (Canon users are however all complaining about the ancient but not always reliable system on the X0D series and the 5Dx, which is long in the tooth now).

It seems to be the AF processor on Pentax that is the issue. It needs beefing up and reprogramming. It also needs its own dedicated chip (I have noticed that AFC slows when writing to the card which knackers it in 3fps mode).

Nikon pulled one out of the hat with the D300/3/700/D3X but the speed of the processor in each is obviously worlds apart. The D3/D3X are much faster than the D300/700. I suspect this is simply a matter of using dedicated processors and memory.

However at least one Nikon user I know actually preferred the system on the D2X and D200 (and now D90) because its also pretty quick and a lot simpler

This is encouraging because even with Safox viii hardware, we could potentially see quite an improvement if they upgrade the processors and firmware.

However, I dont think a lot of current Pentax lenses are optimised for fast AF either.

QuoteOriginally posted by Duplo Quote
I am probably going to regret even writing this post and have actually promised miself several times that I would not ever again engage in silly AF or 35mm digtal vs. APS-C debates.

Now personally I never found the K10D AF system a liability before adding another system, however I have made a number of discoveries about AF systems during the last 16 Months.

Yes a state of the art AF system like that found in the D3, D700 and D300 is significantly faster and more responsive than any pentax AF system, same goes for the AF system present in the Canon 1DsIII.
But even though the 3 nikon bodies mentioned share the same module there are differences, having shot the D3 for a while the D700 and D300 seemed a little sluggish.

Now the most important thing however with these more advanced AF systems, is the number of options available, they are far more advanced in setup and setup combinations than less advanced systems.

Now with this comes a possibility to tailor the system behavior to your shooting style and subject matter, but also a huge number of cases where you risk to have the system configured wrongly and thus miss more shots than you perhaps would have done with a simpler system.

Now I have never spoken badly about the pentax AF system, nor did I find it lacking before adding a nikon system. I found it workable and OK for what I needed.

Sure enough there are faster and more advanced systems out there and I can understand people here wanting it from Pentax, as I can understand people being perfectly happy with the current system.

My bet is though that we would see just as many people struggling with setting it up as we now have people maxing out the current one.
05-06-2009, 08:13 PM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Thomas, reasonable as always....

I think Safox viii is actually OK from a mechanical POV, 11 AF points and 9 cross sensors is more than any Canon, Sony or Olympus short of a 1D series camera yet noone complains about e3 or A700 AF. (Canon users are however all complaining about the ancient but not always reliable system on the X0D series and the 5Dx, which is long in the tooth now).

It seems to be the AF processor on Pentax that is the issue. It needs beefing up and reprogramming. It also needs its own dedicated chip (I have noticed that AFC slows when writing to the card which knackers it in 3fps mode).

Nikon pulled one out of the hat with the D300/3/700/D3X but the speed of the processor in each is obviously worlds apart. The D3/D3X are much faster than the D300/700. I suspect this is simply a matter of using dedicated processors and memory.

However at least one Nikon user I know actually preferred the system on the D2X and D200 (and now D90) because its also pretty quick and a lot simpler

This is encouraging because even with Safox viii hardware, we could potentially see quite an improvement if they upgrade the processors and firmware.

However, I dont think a lot of current Pentax lenses are optimised for fast AF either.
So wait.. it is OK for you to say that the Pentax system could use an improvement but you jump all over me for saying the same thing by implying that I'm complaining "daily" about it when I've never started an AF thread in my life?

Seems to me we think a lot more alike about the AF issue then not.. how funny is that


John
05-06-2009, 08:14 PM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
Yup, because personal relationships are so analogous to electronic consumer equipment.
I seriously hope you are joking. I was!
05-06-2009, 08:16 PM   #223
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I seriously hope you are joking. I was!
Of course I was being sarcastic... just another problem with internet forums.. you completely loose the subtly of the spoken word. Unless you line your post with 8 million different types of smiley faces of course lol


John
05-06-2009, 08:26 PM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
So wait.. it is OK for you to say that the Pentax system could use an improvement but you jump all over me for saying the same thing by implying that I'm complaining "daily" about it when I've never started an AF thread in my life?
Please point out where I said that to you! I dont think I ever made such an accusation.

I just made a joke about Michelle Pfeiffer. My girlfriend is actually gorgeous but we joke about it (she simply sais she would like to as well, then she could hang out with George Clooney and not an ugly old fart like me).

QuoteQuote:
Seems to me we think a lot more alike about the AF issue then not.. how funny is that

John
Not so funny at all. You can check some of my other posts, I think they are consistent.

I just think for a $600 cam, the "issue" is overstated by many to the point of absurdity. Thats the only issue I am objecting to. Perhaps we agree.

BTW, your photos were great.
05-06-2009, 08:27 PM   #225
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what? wait a minute. are you going peacefull "live and let live" on us here? we want to see BLOOD. come on, it was a promissing start.

/me puts the popcorn aside, sadly
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