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04-02-2009, 08:48 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
I come on this forum as a release... a get away from some of the worries that face us every day... To share photos and tips with other folks, not to have people giving priceless advice like my kids are gonna keep growing, and I should just buy new stuff...
I wonder, has it ever occured to you that continuous harping on about the same issue ad nauseam is actually ruining other people's enjoyment of their hobby?

Moreover if Pentax dont sell this years model, there wont BE a next year and there wont BE a Pentax. Fair enough to bring up weaknesses, but not in a vacuum. Anyone coming to the forum looking to buy a Pentax would run a mile if they believed half of what they heard. How exactly does that help anyone?

04-02-2009, 08:53 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by k100d Quote
my experience is that the MZ AF is better than the K100D
-it is just outright faster
-the viewfinder is big enough that you can tell if it missed focus
-however no cross points which makes it miss vertical/horizontal lines

Faster /= better.

The K100D is a lot slower than the K20D, and not having any cross points does not make it better IMO. I use the off centre points all the time (on a tripod) and for that reason I would hate to lose it. Yes, I would even trade some speed for it.

But surely the "issue" is about current Pentax cameras, not ones introduced 2-3 years ago.
04-02-2009, 09:07 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I wonder, has it ever occured to you that continuous harping on about the same issue ad nauseam is actually ruining other people's enjoyment of their hobby?
How?

Will your camera stop working when others are unsatisfied with their current gear and wish to see something better for replacement??

QuoteQuote:
Moreover if Pentax dont sell this years model, there wont BE a next year and there wont BE a Pentax. Fair enough to bring up weaknesses, but not in a vacuum. Anyone coming to the forum looking to buy a Pentax would run a mile if they believed half of what they heard. How exactly does that help anyone?
People will judge. Other people who are satisfied with other good stuff will also speak. With an information transparent era, nothing can be hidden, no matter good or bad.

(So, whats the problem here? Whats the big deal? Any?)

Last edited by RiceHigh; 04-02-2009 at 09:21 PM.
04-02-2009, 09:08 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Why not get what I want now.... Let's see, ummhh... the economy has literally collapsed in relationship to my job... My work is affected about a year out on the calendar and there is very little work ahead. So I will not be heading out and buying a new system. I wish I could...
Sorry to hear about your tough times. I once had to sell everything I owned. Started all over with a bag of underwear and work clothes. Wore the same shoes for a couple of years. Finally had to buy a new pair, if you can call shopping second hand new. Dropped to 126 pounds and a 28 inch waist. First meal I had in three months made me almost drunk, eating once a week was the norm after that. I felt pretty lucky when I finally got to eat once a day.

I'm a fat pig now, go figure.

QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
But if someone comes on this forum asking about getting a pentax camera... or asking about the AF, I will tell it like it is... if folks think that is complaining, so be it!
Is you opinion the only right one?

QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
I come on this forum as a release... a get away from some of the worries that face us every day... To share photos and tips with other folks, not to have people giving priceless advice like my kids are gonna keep growing, and I should just buy new stuff...
Yes, that was pretty heartless of me. At least you still have your camera system, your Internet access, and whatever access you have to a computer.

I have a friend that had triplets right before losing his job. He lost about 60 pounds before he found new work, but his children didn't go hungry. Eggs and rice, I don't think he eats either today.

My parents went though some rough times too, it was beans for lunch and diner, parents eating whatever was left after the kids. My Father smoked at the time and to this day my Mother still gets upset about it. His family smoked as well so would always make sure he had money for cigarettes whether there money to pay the rent, or not.

Even as bad as my parents had it, nothing compares to my Grandmother. My Great Grandfather and Great Grandmother lived on a homestead up in the mountains of SW Colorado. In the winter they took my Grandmother and her two younger siblings into town and left them in a railroad shack. My Grandmother was all of eight. It was her responsibility to get her and the siblings to school everyday. The parents would come into town once a week with food for the next week. She tells how scary it was as the planks of the building didn't overlap and there were always drunks that banged and kicked on the door wanting to get in. It was pretty cold as well. She is now 96 and still driving. Her mind is sharp as a tack with only her hearing holding her back sometimes.

Sorry for rambling on about tough times.


Last edited by poco; 04-02-2009 at 10:08 PM.
04-02-2009, 09:09 PM   #50
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Is that what you think I do?

QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I wonder, has it ever occured to you that continuous harping on about the same issue ad nauseam is actually ruining other people's enjoyment of their hobby?

Moreover if Pentax don't sell this years model, there wont BE a next year and there wont BE a Pentax. Fair enough to bring up weaknesses, but not in a vacuum. Anyone coming to the forum looking to buy a Pentax would run a mile if they believed half of what they heard. How exactly does that help anyone?
Steve--- I probably have 2000+ posts... most going on and on about the joys of old mf lenses and praising Pentax for the backwards compatibility that allows me and everyone else to enjoy these wonderful old pieces of glass.

How sad that you see me as harping on ad nauseam about this particular issue... If one half of 1% of my posts had anything to do with the AF issue, I would be surprised.

You ask how it helps anyone to bring it up... How does it help to not bring it up? You seem to imply it is better for 'us' if folks buy the latest pentax even if it is not the best option for them. I disagree!
I will not lie about it if asked... And I will not sit by silently and watch someone with kids be told by fanboys that pentax is a good choice for them . We all know where these cameras strengths and weaknesses are.

I say revel in the strengths and be honest about the weaknesses.

Here I am goin' off all ad nauseam again.
04-02-2009, 09:16 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by OregonJim Quote
It would look like this:
I suppose. I see his comment as an attack, so responded in kind, maybe with more mockery than he displayed, but I wanted it to end. I see that this was wrong and that I should have turned the other cheek. My bad.
04-02-2009, 09:20 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by OregonJim Quote
There will ALWAYS be people who whine about (insert product here).

There will ALWAYS be people who defend (insert product here).
Perception is nine tenths of reality on the Internet.
04-02-2009, 09:41 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Steve--- I probably have 2000+ posts... most going on and on about the joys of old mf lenses and praising Pentax for the backwards compatibility that allows me and everyone else to enjoy these wonderful old pieces of glass.

How sad that you see me as harping on ad nauseam about this particular issue... If one half of 1% of my posts had anything to do with the AF issue, I would be surprised.

You ask how it helps anyone to bring it up... How does it help to not bring it up? You seem to imply it is better for 'us' if folks buy the latest pentax even if it is not the best option for them. I disagree!
I will not lie about it if asked... And I will not sit by silently and watch someone with kids be told by fanboys that pentax is a good choice for them . We all know where these cameras strengths and weaknesses are.

I say revel in the strengths and be honest about the weaknesses.

Here I am goin' off all ad nauseam again.
I was not referring to you personally. I dont think the OP was either.

I was referring to the number of posts relating to focusing in general and the number of people who seldom if EVER publish positive posts about ANYTHING Pentax. As a result I can sympathise with the OP.

And although I agree that AF/C with Pentax is not exactly the greatest there is a silver lining in the AF cloud if you are a landscape photographer and use a tripod a lot (like me). In some ways its better than any of the FF cameras which have all the AF points grouped tightly in the centre, hence using off centre focus points for portraits or landscapes is pretty much useless. Even the 50D only has a few cross type points.

Kids are tough for any camera, even a top sports camera, because you tend to be quite close to the action and their movement is seldom linear! I do sypathise, but I know Pentax are aware of the issue. Its just not a quick fix. Most of the advanced predictive AF systems on Canon and Nikon are developed on their pro bodies and trickle down to the lower models when the development costs are paid off.

04-02-2009, 09:47 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
So you are somehow thinking that the slower AF speed of the 55/1.4 is an improvement over the faster AF speed of the FA50/1.4?
I have no experience with either lens. My 50mm is a F 50mm f2.8 macro.


QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
When most manufacturers introduce new technology it actually improves performance.
In Pentax's world (and your's apparently)........
Manufacturers manufacture to a price point and a margin. Performance is based on that. This may be the reason Pentax is raising prices and it may be the raise in prices that gets you what you want with whatever the new lens and camera bodies are going to be.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Fortunately for me, the rather moribund AF is not a deal breaker for the bulk of my work, but it would be nice if Pentax could make a camera that would keep up with what the competition was doing 5 years ago.
Again provide data to back up your arguments. The only data on AF I know of is the PopPhoto AF speed data. Yes, the original K20D AF data PopPhoto posted was copied from the K10D, but they redid the test at some point and the new data shows the K20D low light AF improves on the K10D's.

I know nothing of their testing methodology, I know of no other data to compare it to, I only know this data exists and it doesn't validate what has been posted in subjective comparisons across brands and models.

You make up your own mind about where the AF speed is or isn't.

This was posted to DPR.
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Last edited by poco; 04-02-2009 at 10:19 PM.
04-02-2009, 10:01 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I was not referring to you personally. I dont think the OP was either.

I was referring to the number of posts relating to focusing in general and the number of people who seldom if EVER publish positive posts about ANYTHING Pentax. As a result I can sympathise with the OP.

And although I agree that AF/C with Pentax is not exactly the greatest there is a silver lining in the AF cloud if you are a landscape photographer and use a tripod a lot (like me). In some ways its better than any of the FF cameras which have all the AF points grouped tightly in the centre, hence using off centre focus points for portraits or landscapes is pretty much useless. Even the 50D only has a few cross type points.

Kids are tough for any camera, even a top sports camera, because you tend to be quite close to the action and their movement is seldom linear! I do sypathise, but I know Pentax are aware of the issue. Its just not a quick fix. Most of the advanced predictive AF systems on Canon and Nikon are developed on their pro bodies and trickle down to the lower models when the development costs are paid off.
Steve, you quoted me... and then said "I wonder, has it ever occured to you that continuous harping on about the same issue ad nauseam is actually ruining other people's enjoyment of their hobby?"
It read exactly like you were talking to me... If not, and you were just generalizing then I was over-reacting.

I am done with this thread... it is times like this that I wonder why I even spend time on any of these forums.
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04-03-2009, 04:02 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by HGMonaro Quote
speed wise I'm happy with my K10D, accuracy (esp simple situations) however I'm not. It can do it (I have pictures to prove it) but it doesn't too often (I have too many pictures to prove it!). If it broke, I'd buy a Nikon, not a K20D.
I have noticed the same problem with my previous K10.

K20 was better but still not quite "there" compared to what i would consider "reasonable state of the art" (ie not ubber pro cameras").

Precision is THE most important parameter for AF in my everyday use and hence, I skipped the actual Pentax DSLR lineup.

I'd welcome a renewed AF with f2.8 precision point(s) (no need to have 125 of them, 5 would be excellent, placed at the corners and center of the AF rectangle). That would be a major useful evolution for me.

There are undenyable progresses on Pentax AF from generations to generations but I have the feeling that people wanting to see a Pentax "D300" (ie 6-8fps with 51pts AF) will face eternal deception: Pentax just doesn't have the technical know-how for this (just watch how they manage to be the only camera maker to propose a new ultrasonic AF motor slower than the screwdrive it was supposed to replace... even Olympus has way faster ultrasonic lenses) and, as a consequence, I don't think they will ever try to compete on AF "performances".

They will seek their survival in a different direction and that's a very good decision if you ask me.
04-03-2009, 04:50 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Dylan, you are obviously much better at using all of your cameras than I am at using the few I have. I guess I must just be focus challenged...

A little to dim to use Auto Focus 'EFFICIENTLY'...

PS, why the need to capitalize that word? What exactly are you trying to say here?


I guess if I am so bad that I can't use AF, then I should just give up trying...

Ps... love your photos posted in the gallery...
Howzit Gus

I used capitals for efficient - to kinda emphasize that I'm extremely happy with what I can do with the autofocus from Pentax and the output I get from it and in less than perfect lighting.

For sure most things in life can be improved on and I would never poo poo the idea of an even better autofocus etc etc

Thanks for the compliments re: gallery

Dylan
04-03-2009, 05:02 AM   #58
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Wow what a read - all I got to say is if you are unhappy with the AF performance - there are ways to bring this to the attention of people that can improve it. Unfortuantley there is no way to know if "they" pay attention to it.

I have missed some shots due to slow AF - but I think my skills could be better as well - I have also nailed some great hockey action shots - it's like my golf game - great shot , mulligan, slice, wormburner, great shot. These are my short commings - may not be the case for everyone - but for me I know I can be better.

In the meantime try taking pcitures of slower subjects , start with a mountain
04-03-2009, 05:15 AM   #59
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I never use AF
04-03-2009, 05:16 AM   #60
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Venturi, I have the same complaint. Do you think it's possible to have a firmware update that's able to restore the previous manual focus speed? Or is this gradual loss of capability expected from my photographic system?

QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
MF speed is what bothers me of late. I remember back in the day the MF on my K1000 was awesome - 0.5sec max. But now days it takes my MF system light years by comparison to lock even with the split screen activated.
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